webdiplomacy.net

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:16 pm

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:55 pm

worcej wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:45 am

Why is his reasoning cringe exactly?

I feel like your answer is just the last half of Bona's post.

It seems like Bozo negatively responded to rdr and Kak challenging his survey without critically thinking about why they are doing so. The fact that a majority of the players responded to the survey does not, in itself, make the players who didn't respond suspicious. Bozo has to establish why not responding after a majority already have is scum motivated and Bona is pointing out a clear reason why not responding may not be scum motivated.

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 pm

fischyyyyy


why won't you vote for cellyyyy

He's one of my top townreads right now, up there with kak currently, it could change but at least right now I wouldn't really want to vote him

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:01 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:59 pm

Who wants to ##VOTE damo

What's the argument? Info kills being scum motivated?

Rooting for an info kill D2 while doing nothing of substance otherwise is not a town-driven strategy, particularly when apologizing for a previous absence. When you return and state you are now ready to be impactful one would expect you to actually be impactful, but damo is passing the buck when we’re already down a kill.

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:11 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 pm

fischyyyyy


why won't you vote for cellyyyy

He's one of my top townreads right now, up there with kak currently, it could change but at least right now I wouldn't really want to vote him

Why

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:11 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 pm

fischyyyyy


why won't you vote for cellyyyy

He's one of my top townreads right now, up there with kak currently, it could change but at least right now I wouldn't really want to vote him

fischy, you implied that celaph was scum in this post:

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:50 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:47 pm

town celaph would know that's totally on par for the fisch as any alignment

Town anyone would know that, EOD is at 6cst today correct?

your only other interaction with him had notably like no things going on

what's the deal with you? with heart, you'd expressed disagreement with him once and now he's your top scumread, but you basically call celaph scum and he's one of your top townreads? what's up?

fischy why won't you vote celly???

worcej wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:45 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:38 am

worcej wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:30 am

It could be valuable and it isn't costing us anything of merit. Bona dismisses the fake pets inserted by scum to mean nothing, but they could very easily be their downfall if they fucked up their claims.

Several people are claiming it shows who we think could be a PR, but I fall in the camp of the fact scum don't give a fuck who the sheep think are a PR - they're going to go with their own information gathering attempts. Let's say we all ended up petting the same person - does that mean they will kill there for sure? Fuck no it doesn't.

call me when we catch any scum with this

fuck yeah it means that everyone thought that this guy was pr lmao

Again - who cares who we think is a PR?

I think Chaqa is a PR - does that move your needle at all?

No, but I think one of two things is true:
1) Town lying about who they petted is a well accepted and approved strategy.
2) Town should tell the truth on the survey.
If (1) is true, then the survey is probably useless at catching mafia because they could just claim to be a smart town who lied on the survey to keep mafia off the target. If (2) is true, then there is some concrete reason to believe that people were being honest in their claims. If I could guarantee that you thought Chaqa was PR with some reasonable likelihood, that may move my needle. Probably not much, but it would certainly come up if you tried to DK Chaqa later on.

Thinking more about the survey...
1) There is some non-zero but small value in the survey. Most likely because it makes mafia afraid that it might catch them more than it is actually likely to catch one.
2) There is some small non-zero cost to the survey because I suspect that most town members answered it honestly and there is some info in that.

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:16 pm

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:11 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 pm

fischyyyyy


why won't you vote for cellyyyy

He's one of my top townreads right now, up there with kak currently, it could change but at least right now I wouldn't really want to vote him

Why

personally I liked his D1 and his response to bozo's survey seemed pretty towny to me

thanks for talking to me celaph i appreciate your engagement

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:18 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:16 pm

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:11 pm

He's one of my top townreads right now, up there with kak currently, it could change but at least right now I wouldn't really want to vote him

Why

personally I liked his D1 and his response to bozo's survey seemed pretty towny to me

give details

give posts

explain why the posts are towny to me

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:13 pm

heartthrob24909 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:52 pm

##vote Kak
I'm leaning the way of the survey is a good thing in the interest of general info gain even if earlier I wasn't sure exactly how we'd use the info

Do you think Kak is scum pushing against the survey because he's trying to hide something or town pushing against the survey for reasons you diagree with?

That's a good point. I guess I'm just trying to see no survey = less info/convo = scummy compared to the reverse side of that argument. Trying to calibrate myself to pick up subtler cues in real time but so far thats been easier said than done

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:14 pm

[...]
The part about finding my checking ghug suspicious is what I was talking about earlier. First, it contradicts the position that there is no value in the survey. Second, it looks like fishing for players to vote for me, setting up a move to my wagon if I get some town votes.

I never said there is no value in the survey. It is just much more hurtful to town than any benefits gained. And starting the survey with the N1 target which disposition you and everyone knows of IS suspicious, you can't go wrong since everyone already knows the role and in case you're mafia you can signal your comrades to pick another save pick.

The second point is very strange and defensive for you to mention, you yourself were saying bona was very openly suspicious and didn't vote him, were you "fishing for townvotes to vote him, setting up a move to his wagon if he gets town votes"? Do you realize most of the time when someone mentions a thing they find suspicious they don't instantly vote that person? I voted you later because you didn't seem to see any reason that came from the 'veto-pet-survey' arguments.

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:31 pm

[...]
I did not say the dog was useless, but I do not agree that there is useful information for the mafia in the survey.

You make a reasonable counter argument, but for most of this post you seem to be addressing me like you think I am town who has not thought of the things you mention, but then in the end conclude I am mafia. It just seems to me that you know I am town and are just trying to set me up for a mis-kill.

no, you said

the dog power is not significant enough to be overly worried about giving away their identity

but giving up the dogs identity renders it powerless since mafia can just pick the dog up. Maybe you didn't think it through, but I would've judged town bozo to do so.

Thank you for finally acknowledging that I make sense. And of course I'm addressing you as town, it wouldn't make sense addressing you as mafia since mafia wouldn't care or even change their mind at this point. I don't know if you are town or mafia, but if you are mafia the whole discussion between us is moot and irrelevant, but if you are actually town bozo I want to reach you and make you realize how awful (at least I think it's awful, maybe god thread can be the judge of that) that survey is. I don't want to vote you out if you are town, I want to rescue you in that case. But all that resistance before is just strengthening the side of me that fears that you are mafia. Understanding that I come from a point of logic here gives me hope though.

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:54 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:50 pm

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:45 pm

If you were online for EOD, why did you never place a meaningful vote?

into the omgus stretch

If you are playing a mafia strategy of aggressively pushing mis-kills each day, I like it. I tried that one time.

bona tried that some time ago too when he was mafia. I find it hard though to distinguish when he pushes as town compared to when he is mafia. Currently I'm leaning strongly pro town bona

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:03 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:59 pm

you can't say i'm openwolfing and that you can't vote me

There are 3 mafia, I can see you and Kakarroto as scum teammates here.

and I can see a mafia team with you and worcej here. What I've learned about the span of the games I played here though is it never is that easy.

fischy, you implied that celaph was scum in this post:

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:50 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:47 pm

town celaph would know that's totally on par for the fisch as any alignment

Town anyone would know that, EOD is at 6cst today correct?

your only other interaction with him had notably like no things going on

what's the deal with you? with heart, you'd expressed disagreement with him once and now he's your top scumread, but you basically call celaph scum and he's one of your top townreads? what's up?
[/quote]

Didn't read the celaph post correctly sorry, but idk its been a while since I've played, so I would understand people not remembering that I have been hella inactive before

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:19 pm

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:18 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:16 pm

Why

personally I liked his D1 and his response to bozo's survey seemed pretty towny to me

give details

give posts

explain why the posts are towny to me

seconded

Maybe I should ##VOTE lfischl until it happens

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:21 pm

Bonatogether wrote:fischy, you implied that celaph was scum in this post:

lfischl wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:50 pm

Town anyone would know that, EOD is at 6cst today correct?

your only other interaction with him had notably like no things going on

what's the deal with you? with heart, you'd expressed disagreement with him once and now he's your top scumread, but you basically call celaph scum and he's one of your top townreads? what's up?

Didn't read the celaph post correctly sorry, but idk its been a while since I've played, so I would understand people not remembering that I have been hella inactive before

fischy that doesn't make any sense. being inactive is like the lfischl stereotype and you said it yourself - any townie would know that that's NAI - so celaph painting that as scummy is very interesting. you don't push back on that at all?

you also don't explain your heart scumread or where it comes from at all. i'm very interested and i'd love to hear about it

fischyyyyy

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:41 pm

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:37 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:46 am

ayo?

Yeah, I townread Kak yet I am still confused by his reads. I would like to understand them because maybe he has a good reason for townreading you that I've missed and I like when I can townread people.

I feel like you townread Kak and then only gave reasons to scumread him. Why the townread?

Is this a joke?

The way that Kak shifted his perception of ghug as ghug posted more makes me think that he was actively building an understanding of ghug's role. That's what town members do. It's very towny. As an addition, I also like Chaqa's townread pointing out that Kak is bringing in a lot of new information into the conversation in a way that is pro-town and making it look like he's actually trying to solve the game.

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:29 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:41 pm

celaph wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:37 pm

Yeah, I townread Kak yet I am still confused by his reads. I would like to understand them because maybe he has a good reason for townreading you that I've missed and I like when I can townread people.

I feel like you townread Kak and then only gave reasons to scumread him. Why the townread?

Is this a joke?

The way that Kak shifted his perception of ghug as ghug posted more makes me think that he was actively building an understanding of ghug's role. That's what town members do. It's very towny. As an addition, I also like Chaqa's townread pointing out that Kak is bringing in a lot of new information into the conversation in a way that is pro-town and making it look like he's actually trying to solve the game.

you say that you like that he's changing reads, but also that you can't understand them. if i change my reads in an incomprehensible way, will you townread me as well? understand you like to townread people :)

fischy is no longer online. hilarious!