M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

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Bonatogether
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#701 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:56 am

heartthrob24909 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:44 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:25 pm
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:23 pm


No, which is somewhat interesting.
I mean one thing to consider is that while the mafia is definitely lying, what's the likelihood that at least 1 sheep lied
sheep could lie to protect ID of sheepdog if they find it maybe. but idk what would motivate me to do that. still working on wrapping my head around what we find out from this survey. but i liked the point someone made earlier about using everyone's reactions to the survey itself as evidence to go off of
we get nothing of use

it does not help the town find scum

it only helps scum find the pr

it is beyond useless - it is actively harmful for bozo to have asked and for anyone to have answered this survey
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#702 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:57 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:44 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:39 pm
bozo givith cringe reasoning

are not the scum more likely to lie (with literally no blowback possibility) versus singling themselves out by refusing to answer
Maybe, or they could just claim they did not check anyone.
is not "singling themselves out by refusing to answer" the same as "they could just claim they did not check anyone"????

that's literally what i said

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#703 Post by worcej » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:42 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:25 pm
heartthrob24909 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:21 pm
celaph wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:49 am


@Heart, why do you townread Bona?
he was generating a lot of conversation which i'm starting to pick up as generally a town trait. also i feel like a scum wouldn't want to draw so much attention to themselves early on but maybe i'm wrong there
I think that depends on the player, Bonatogether has demonstrated the ability to be very active as mafia.
I always find it interesting when people think the quantity of posts matters.
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#704 Post by worcej » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:41 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:25 pm
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:23 pm


No, which is somewhat interesting.
I mean one thing to consider is that while the mafia is definitely lying, what's the likelihood that at least 1 sheep lied
It is possible, although not particularly helpful.
Also seconding this - sheep should have no reason to falsify their pet.

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#705 Post by worcej » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:45 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:39 pm
bozo givith cringe reasoning

are not the scum more likely to lie (with literally no blowback possibility) versus singling themselves out by refusing to answer
Why is his reasoning cringe exactly?

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#706 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 am

worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:41 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:25 pm


I mean one thing to consider is that while the mafia is definitely lying, what's the likelihood that at least 1 sheep lied
It is possible, although not particularly helpful.
Also seconding this - sheep should have no reason to falsify their pet.
it gives info on who they think is likely to be PR

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#707 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 am

worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:45 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:39 pm
bozo givith cringe reasoning

are not the scum more likely to lie (with literally no blowback possibility) versus singling themselves out by refusing to answer
Why is his reasoning cringe exactly?
he hasn't connected why refusing to participate in his survey is scummy, especially when it's actually a pro-town move :!: :!:
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#708 Post by worcej » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:49 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:54 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:18 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:50 pm


Town points for Kak. Scum points for Bozo

This is one of the most useless surveys I have ever seen as it gets no usefull results (scum can easily fake a pat o a dead player like Ghug for example or there are other ways to avoid giving any info to town that I won't tell) and it will give info to scum because some morobs will disclose the result and make the pool smaller.

Bozo ain't a bad player, so ##vote Bozo
There are 3 mafia, they couldn't all say they checked ghug, and there is risk in accidently claiming a check on the dog without knowing they are the dog. There is little risk of revealing the identity of the dog to the mafia, since the dog can safely claim a fake check, and the dog power is not significant enough to be overly worried about giving away their identity.

Assuming the mafia did not check the dog, they had the choice of claiming a check on ghug, claiming a check on someone who may or not may not be the dog, claiming they did not check anyone, or refusing to answer. If they did check the dog, only one would want to give the real dog as their check.

So, the useful results are:
1. the reaction to the survey
2. the potential for the mafia to fake a check on the real dog without knowing the identity of the dog
2. is nothing. no one should be saying their result, so literally the only thing you've done is ask people to pr hunt in the thread
See, I think this is a hilariously bad take from you Bona.

2 is a big thing - if any scum’s fake pet is the actual dog and proceeds to be dumb about fabricating reads later, then the dog has the ability to call them out if they have to claim.

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#709 Post by worcej » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:52 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 am
worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:41 pm


It is possible, although not particularly helpful.
Also seconding this - sheep should have no reason to falsify their pet.
it gives info on who they think is likely to be PR
And why are you putting so much value in this? To me, it’s a red herring and the value comes in that town can signal the dog while also forcing scum to put their neck out with fake claims for pets

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#710 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:54 am

worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:49 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:54 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:18 pm


There are 3 mafia, they couldn't all say they checked ghug, and there is risk in accidently claiming a check on the dog without knowing they are the dog. There is little risk of revealing the identity of the dog to the mafia, since the dog can safely claim a fake check, and the dog power is not significant enough to be overly worried about giving away their identity.

Assuming the mafia did not check the dog, they had the choice of claiming a check on ghug, claiming a check on someone who may or not may not be the dog, claiming they did not check anyone, or refusing to answer. If they did check the dog, only one would want to give the real dog as their check.

So, the useful results are:
1. the reaction to the survey
2. the potential for the mafia to fake a check on the real dog without knowing the identity of the dog
2. is nothing. no one should be saying their result, so literally the only thing you've done is ask people to pr hunt in the thread
See, I think this is a hilariously bad take from you Bona.

2 is a big thing - if any scum’s fake pet is the actual dog and proceeds to be dumb about fabricating reads later, then the dog has the ability to call them out if they have to claim.
that's a wildly specific and unlikely edge case.

if i asked people to list who they thought was most likely to be the doc in any other game, it wouldn't even be a question of who was getting voted that day, but because there's a mechanism for people to guess about prs, people are acting like it's a grand old idea to post what they're doing with that in the thread. it's incredibly smoothbrain
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#711 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:55 am

worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:52 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 am
worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 am
Also seconding this - sheep should have no reason to falsify their pet.
it gives info on who they think is likely to be PR
And why are you putting so much value in this? To me, it’s a red herring and the value comes in that town can signal the dog while also forcing scum to put their neck out with fake claims for pets
the scum aren't putting shit on the line with their claim
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#712 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:01 am

like if they wanna play it cool, name a scummate

otherwise, they got a 7/8 or 8/9 chance of naming a genuine non-doc player

like idk who yall think you're gonna catch with this dumb shit survey
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#713 Post by Kakarroto » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:10 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:52 am
[...]
It is unlikely anyone will give away the identity of the dog by just stating who they checked, and the dog is not a very powerful enough PR to be that worried about protecting their identity. I think the dog check has the potential to be more valuable.
What the heck are you talking about, the sheepdog is the most powerful role we have, saving a townie, clearing a townie, clearing themselves and being able to participate in the next day vote. The later the dog survives the more powerful he becomes with his vote (after a successful save).

What else do we have? A one shot cop with a miller and a godfather? Your scan is weak, you can't guarantee it is useful, you have to be really careful who to scan.

The squirrel? Geh, just go home bozo.
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:18 pm
[...]

There are 3 mafia, they couldn't all say they checked ghug, and there is risk in accidently claiming a check on the dog without knowing they are the dog. There is little risk of revealing the identity of the dog to the mafia, since the dog can safely claim a fake check, and the dog power is not significant enough to be overly worried about giving away their identity.

Assuming the mafia did not check the dog, they had the choice of claiming a check on ghug, claiming a check on someone who may or not may not be the dog, claiming they did not check anyone, or refusing to answer. If they did check the dog, only one would want to give the real dog as their check.

So, the useful results are:
1. the reaction to the survey
2. the potential for the mafia to fake a check on the real dog without knowing the identity of the dog
If you would just think for a second who the mafia could name you would see how bad this take is. There is no chance the mafia would overlook that to use it but would be happy to stay silent since that is a major flaw in your argument. I'd love to slap the reason why into your face but RD said it might be wise to not do so, so I'll wait maybe I'm overlooking something why I shouldn't do that, can't think of everything.

And again, THE DOG IS OUR MOST POWERFUL PR, WE SHOULD GIVE OUR LIVES FOR HIM, again with this stupid pushing of that flawed reasoning. Even fake claiming dog is out of the question, since even if no one had pet that person, it takes just a night to confirm it WITHOUT OUTING THE DOG. So for the future DEAR DOG, DON'T BOTHER TO REACT TO A FAKECLAIM, WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT THE NEXT NIGHT WITHOUT YOU OUTING!!!

And yes, I give you the reaction to that survey is useful, but actual data mostly benefits mafia here and only the refusal or faking data for it is a good town play. But mafia has a very good way to avoid nominating the dog in their 'pets'. Even if they don't do that, the chance for them hitting the dog is low. Town bozo would've noticed all of that. Maf bozo would be happy no one ever would think about that.

##vote bozo
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#714 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:15 am

thanks for agreeing with me kak, very cool 8-)
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#715 Post by Bonatogether » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:16 am

##vote bozotheclown
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#716 Post by Kakarroto » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:24 am

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:29 am
Kakarroto wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:00 am
desperately need to post more:
chaqa
bo

need to post more:
heartthrob
worcej
bozo

RD - I kinda want to put him into the 'need more', but with his thing posted (even when I think it was kinda bääääähd because of shortening the PR list) RD should be fine

damo - I'm bad at reading damo, feel a bit suspicous of him, but that was always town damo when I felt that way so probably here too?

lfischl - hmm, not a fan, not too bad though, posted enough I think but I can't get a good feel. nullish for me

bona - I'm leaning town for bona, though in his mafia game he found day after day people to shove/push for like here bunny. For D1, it looks enough town for me to be fine with it, but if that continues day after day with other people, be very prepared.

ghug - I miss from him the desire to hunt, I don't see that he wants to know who is a wolf. There is also a bit of defensiveness I don't like. Maybe it's just lazyness or something else, but it looks to me it's wolf-ghug. Maybe he's the wolf in sheepskin and wants to be scanned ... feels a bit that way at least.

celaph - his posting style is fine, but I didn't like that he supported my ghug vote with a page long paragraph stating about the same reasons as me then before EoN gets around goes off. That felt like a wolf distancing from another wolf, testing water if there would be anyone who wants to vote ghug. My wool stood up with that action. Feels very bad.
- Why are Chaqa and I in the same category when he has been here far more than I have? Is his participation that bad to you?
- What is “his thing” that rdr posted, and what did it accomplish to you to get him out of the needs more category?
- If you do not have a read on damo and lfischl, why do you not think they need to contribute more? Is your lack of a read on them your fault or theirs?
- Are you scared of Bona?
-) yes, at the time, all I read from chaqa's posts were 'placeholder' and yes, there weren't many posts (I think 3 at the time?). Which might be due to different circumstances, in case of chaqa contrary to ghug such a thing is NAI. Also chaqa's strength lies in direct communication with others so I also wanted him to gear up his engine
-) I think everybody should know already, but his '100% vannilla town/sheep/...' is something he only does as vanilla town (well maybe as miller too since he doesn't know if he were it). Until now, in every game he did that, he was indeed vanilla town, has a 100% truth rate. I doubt he would sacrifice that in this game, especially uncontested and on D1.
-) because it wouldn't be fair since I felt they did contribute, but in their case it is more a deficiency of me reading them. Especially damo I've read more than once wrong (in fact mafia used my wish to vote him out the thing to make me their winning day mis vote next day).
-) Bona is a fly guy. I'm afraid my sympathy for him makes me reading him too townsided and overlook any signs of him being mafia, but I hope I compensate for it.

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#717 Post by Kakarroto » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:29 am

celaph wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:24 am
Kakarroto wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:00 am
bona - I'm leaning town for bona, though in his mafia game he found day after day people to shove/push for like here bunny. For D1, it looks enough town for me to be fine with it, but if that continues day after day with other people, be very prepared.
I feel like you townread Bona and then only gave reasons to scumread him. Why the townread?
I don't see signs for him being mafia here, plus I liked what he wrote so far. bona vs bunny looked pretty tvt as far as I can tell. I try to be cautious since some maf bona things had me fooled in earlier games but I also continue to like what he writes D2, especially with the bozo survey. I mean at the time I wouldn't know that, but bona looks pretty good to me now.

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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#718 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:34 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:55 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:41 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:25 pm


I mean one thing to consider is that while the mafia is definitely lying, what's the likelihood that at least 1 sheep lied
It is possible, although not particularly helpful.
sheep lying is the best result because it means we're not putting pr hunt thoughts in the thread likes actual sheeple
Bingo.

I would add there is a lot of ways for scum to answer without giving any content so I think the net result of the survey is negative for town.
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#719 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:41 am

worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:52 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 am
worcej wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 am
Also seconding this - sheep should have no reason to falsify their pet.
it gives info on who they think is likely to be PR
And why are you putting so much value in this? To me, it’s a red herring and the value comes in that town can signal the dog while also forcing scum to put their neck out with fake claims for pets
Only an incredible stupid scum will fake a claim. They can claim a scan on Ghug. They can claim they didn't plwant to pet. They can claim they forget to pet. They can claim the real scum pet if they missed. They can claim a pet on another scum. And there probably many other options.

Meanwhile townies are giving info to scum about who they think are PRs.
And two people already also claimed the result, which if they are town and not tryng to confuse scum just make the pool smaller for scum.
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Re: M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#720 Post by Kakarroto » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:41 am

Earlier I asked people about ghug and why the mafia would target him. The answers so far were pretty decent (I'd disagree with the ones who would say 'all' or name me specifically who would've targeted him since I'd preferred someone else to ruthlessly remove them from the game but that is just a minor appendix), there is however one reason no one spoke out (well Chaqa did kinda though in reverse logic):

Nobody said ghug was targeted because of his vote. Not even a short mention with 'oh it might be silly but ...', it's like everyone forgot that as an option (besides with an asterisk Chaqa). There were some games where mafia did target someone who voted for them and since most don't know Chaqa's alignment I at least expected that reasoning to come up.

But all I got was 'ghug is a respected member of the community and dangerous for mafia'. I'm not sure what to think about it exactly, but something doesn't add up. I hope it's not because I'm crazy.
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