M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

I'm not terribly opposed to ending today.

If Kak is mafia and I've been bamboozled, I'll take the L.

##END

Do you not understand why damo and I am town based on demonstrating our scans of worcej were real?

I would consider chaqa, I won’t vote kak, he is just objectively town

Both of these posts look so much like extreme pocketing that I am having a hard time believing one came from a scum teammate and another came from town.

I'm currently leaning toward Damo-Lfischl FWIW.

[lfischl]

Do you not understand why damo and I am town based on demonstrating our scans of worcej were real?

so you're saying mafia wouldn't have the ability to act like town if they'd scan the dog? Or to fudge their scans if they reveal their targets on a later date?

If you say you are town because you defended worcej, you have to include myself there where I noticed during the day worcej was either scanned or (at the time it was still a possibility) that worcej was mafia that got protected (though that would've included one town that fudged their scan on worcej so I disregarded that for the moment).

If you are not willing to vote for Kakarroto D5 or D6, the mafia will win, because Kakarroto is mafia. I know he has done very well as mafia, but damo and I are town. The mafia only have one dog scan between them, so if damo or I were mafia, all the mafia would have known worcej was the doctor, and
heartthrob was clearly surprised by worcej's claim D3.

Show me where I was surprised about worcej's claim D3: you will not find it because you could've deducted it like me that worcej was dog. So that reaction isn't a tell. It could've been very well the plan to have heartthrob push worcej more to bring him to claim while the other members try to protect him during the day. Mafia didn't had to remove worcej D3, they could wait, in fact, they even waited for one more night. Worcej tunneling on heartthrob most likely wasn't their desired outcome but they proably wanted to get me removed. Anyway, it's another example where you have a line of thinking (that is wrong, which is fine, people can be wrong) but you don't have the same line of thinking for others. It looks like you bend your logic to fit people differently and THAT is what I pointed out for days on days what makes you look like mafia.

to be fair I saw a similar way of thinking in worcej so until I noticed he's the dog, I was pretty sure he was mafia; so if you are town, you don't have the same luxury as worcej and just magically clear you, you have to act on that, and even with doubt in my mind I can't see much town in you

I did not mean how heartthrob acted, it was that he was unprepared for worcej to claim doctor.

go back, look at all the reactions, write them down, post them here again. I'm sure your theory will fall down when faced to the actual data.

You, Chaqa, and heartthrob all reacted the same to the doctor claim, by not voting for Bonatogether, who all 3 of you were trying to pocket all game. You kept your vote on bo_sox after he soft claimed cop with a scan on Chaqa.

is that to me or kak

[Kakarroto]

Do you not understand why damo and I am town based on demonstrating our scans of worcej were real?

so you're saying mafia wouldn't have the ability to act like town if they'd scan the dog? Or to fudge their scans if they reveal their targets on a later date?

If you say you are town because you defended worcej, you have to include myself there where I noticed during the day worcej was either scanned or (at the time it was still a possibility) that worcej was mafia that got protected (though that would've included one town that fudged their scan on worcej so I disregarded that for the moment).

If you are not willing to vote for Kakarroto D5 or D6, the mafia will win, because Kakarroto is mafia. I know he has done very well as mafia, but damo and I are town. The mafia only have one dog scan between them, so if damo or I were mafia, all the mafia would have known worcej was the doctor, and
heartthrob was clearly surprised by worcej's claim D3.

Show me where I was surprised about worcej's claim D3: you will not find it because you could've deducted it like me that worcej was dog. So that reaction isn't a tell. It could've been very well the plan to have heartthrob push worcej more to bring him to claim while the other members try to protect him during the day. Mafia didn't had to remove worcej D3, they could wait, in fact, they even waited for one more night. Worcej tunneling on heartthrob most likely wasn't their desired outcome but they proably wanted to get me removed. Anyway, it's another example where you have a line of thinking (that is wrong, which is fine, people can be wrong) but you don't have the same line of thinking for others. It looks like you bend your logic to fit people differently and THAT is what I pointed out for days on days what makes you look like mafia.

to be fair I saw a similar way of thinking in worcej so until I noticed he's the dog, I was pretty sure he was mafia; so if you are town, you don't have the same luxury as worcej and just magically clear you, you have to act on that, and even with doubt in my mind I can't see much town in you

I did not mean how heartthrob acted, it was that he was unprepared for worcej to claim doctor.

go back, look at all the reactions, write them down, post them here again. I'm sure your theory will fall down when faced to the actual data.

You, Chaqa, and heartthrob all reacted the same to the doctor claim, by not voting for Bonatogether, who all 3 of you were trying to pocket all game. You kept your vote on bo_sox after he soft claimed cop with a scan on Chaqa.

why should I vote for my highest townread for a stupid PR who just didn't notice that this survey will hasten his demise? And I was too occupied with thoughts about the discovery worcej might/has to be dog for what ever hidden claim my highest mafia read not involved in any dog scans hat to say, especially when suddenly everything went crazy with one of the worst claims in history. Well at least not the worst and I might overemphasise here, but he didn't have to claim since at least 5 people would try to rescue him there, even when I think there were mafia involved there, mafia didn't need to blow their cover and get the dog during the day.

[Kakarroto]

I've had an eat, tried to soft reset my mind and look at my former post. With that I think there can only be 3 teams that are logically possible:

chaqa-heartthrob-lfischl
bozo-damo-heartthrob
damo-heartthrob-lfischl

I think the chaqa lfischl is still possible, but for that there has to go so much in their favour and chaqa has to sacrifice his tell.

@damo @bozo I want to give you a bit of time to convince me that we actually have this maf team, but that has to be a gigantic good argument with detailed analysis to believe you. To be frank, I give this team a 1% chance to be true, just that little doubt I have in myself let me even consider it a possibility.

comparing the two other teams, I think there is like a 60:40 chance; bozo+damo more possible than bozo+lfischl

Therefore, we should vote today damo, since he is part of both teams

##vote damo

I urge you to change your vote to damo since that should be the best way for town to get to the truth

Since you seem to be using the dog check survey results, can you now tell us who you checked N1 and N2 (unless you have done so already and I missed it)?

would you even believe me now if I told you?

[Kakarroto]

Damo: if chaqa filps scum he's conf town in my eyes, if he flips town I think we DK him next

Worcej: Not much really, don't think he's a good kill

Bozo: Would be fine killing him here if it got to that, would prefer bona or heart though

Bo: Town

thanks. I don't know what you see in bo as town but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you connect damo this strongly with chaqa, I thought there was another connection that would give much more information? Then again, I'm not sure if you see what I see.

What were you talking about in this post?

I asked lfischl about the people here, well mostly I was interested in what he had to say about worcej, since at the time I thought that his former post 'shoot not worcej' with his scan might've been a sign he found the dog; this answer here made me pretty sure he did and tried his part to save worcej without outing him.

If you see my posts around this time, I tried to steer the overall direction away from worcej (even away from you bozo since I thought if worcej survived the night that might clear you, damo and lfischl, even when I totally disagree with your survey take)

but then worcej claimed and made the whole thing to clearing you all worthless

so the whole damo connection not with chaqa was with worcej, you and lfischl, at the time I thought, if that could be used to clear you all, town would surely win. But it never came to that.

and bo was totally unconnected to the thing, I was sure he was hiding bad stuff, but it seemed he hid good stuff and I misread. Anyway, I thought he would be a great alternative to be voted out so we could either clear a bunch of people or can focus on that group, if worcej turned up removed the next day, but after his claim, all that crumbled to dust.

I mean good that bo survived, sure, but bad bona did not.

[Kakarroto]

I'm not terribly opposed to ending today.

If Kak is mafia and I've been bamboozled, I'll take the L.

##END

Do you not understand why damo and I am town based on demonstrating our scans of worcej were real?

I would consider chaqa, I won’t vote kak, he is just objectively town

Both of these posts look so much like extreme pocketing that I am having a hard time believing one came from a scum teammate and another came from town.

so both are town?

or do you think now both are mafia and I'm too? Then again, that would be one mafia too much.

[Kakarroto]

@lfischl are you going to stay voting bozo? Do you not like to change your vote to damo?

[bozotheclown]

I'm not terribly opposed to ending today.

If Kak is mafia and I've been bamboozled, I'll take the L.

##END

I would consider chaqa, I won’t vote kak, he is just objectively town

Both of these posts look so much like extreme pocketing that I am having a hard time believing one came from a scum teammate and another came from town.

so both are town?

or do you think now both are mafia and I'm too? Then again, that would be one mafia too much.

No, I meant maybe Chaqa and lfischl are the mafia and they are just trying to pocket you.

[bozotheclown]

thanks. I don't know what you see in bo as town but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you connect damo this strongly with chaqa, I thought there was another connection that would give much more information? Then again, I'm not sure if you see what I see.

What were you talking about in this post?

I asked lfischl about the people here, well mostly I was interested in what he had to say about worcej, since at the time I thought that his former post 'shoot not worcej' with his scan might've been a sign he found the dog; this answer here made me pretty sure he did and tried his part to save worcej without outing him.

If you see my posts around this time, I tried to steer the overall direction away from worcej (even away from you bozo since I thought if worcej survived the night that might clear you, damo and lfischl, even when I totally disagree with your survey take)

but then worcej claimed and made the whole thing to clearing you all worthless

so the whole damo connection not with chaqa was with worcej, you and lfischl, at the time I thought, if that could be used to clear you all, town would surely win. But it never came to that.

and bo was totally unconnected to the thing, I was sure he was hiding bad stuff, but it seemed he hid good stuff and I misread. Anyway, I thought he would be a great alternative to be voted out so we could either clear a bunch of people or can focus on that group, if worcej turned up removed the next day, but after his claim, all that crumbled to dust.

I mean good that bo survived, sure, but bad bona did not.

What about the part of lfischl not seeing what you see?

[bozotheclown]

so you're saying mafia wouldn't have the ability to act like town if they'd scan the dog? Or to fudge their scans if they reveal their targets on a later date?

If you say you are town because you defended worcej, you have to include myself there where I noticed during the day worcej was either scanned or (at the time it was still a possibility) that worcej was mafia that got protected (though that would've included one town that fudged their scan on worcej so I disregarded that for the moment).



Show me where I was surprised about worcej's claim D3: you will not find it because you could've deducted it like me that worcej was dog. So that reaction isn't a tell. It could've been very well the plan to have heartthrob push worcej more to bring him to claim while the other members try to protect him during the day. Mafia didn't had to remove worcej D3, they could wait, in fact, they even waited for one more night. Worcej tunneling on heartthrob most likely wasn't their desired outcome but they proably wanted to get me removed. Anyway, it's another example where you have a line of thinking (that is wrong, which is fine, people can be wrong) but you don't have the same line of thinking for others. It looks like you bend your logic to fit people differently and THAT is what I pointed out for days on days what makes you look like mafia.

to be fair I saw a similar way of thinking in worcej so until I noticed he's the dog, I was pretty sure he was mafia; so if you are town, you don't have the same luxury as worcej and just magically clear you, you have to act on that, and even with doubt in my mind I can't see much town in you



go back, look at all the reactions, write them down, post them here again. I'm sure your theory will fall down when faced to the actual data.

You, Chaqa, and heartthrob all reacted the same to the doctor claim, by not voting for Bonatogether, who all 3 of you were trying to pocket all game. You kept your vote on bo_sox after he soft claimed cop with a scan on Chaqa.

is that to me or kak

I was talking about Kakarroto there.

[bozotheclown]

I've had an eat, tried to soft reset my mind and look at my former post. With that I think there can only be 3 teams that are logically possible:

chaqa-heartthrob-lfischl
bozo-damo-heartthrob
damo-heartthrob-lfischl

I think the chaqa lfischl is still possible, but for that there has to go so much in their favour and chaqa has to sacrifice his tell.

@damo @bozo I want to give you a bit of time to convince me that we actually have this maf team, but that has to be a gigantic good argument with detailed analysis to believe you. To be frank, I give this team a 1% chance to be true, just that little doubt I have in myself let me even consider it a possibility.

comparing the two other teams, I think there is like a 60:40 chance; bozo+damo more possible than bozo+lfischl

Therefore, we should vote today damo, since he is part of both teams

##vote damo

I urge you to change your vote to damo since that should be the best way for town to get to the truth

Since you seem to be using the dog check survey results, can you now tell us who you checked N1 and N2 (unless you have done so already and I missed it)?

would you even believe me now if I told you?

Maybe not, but there is no argument to keep it hidden anymore.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE Chaqa

If Kakarroto is mafia, town has already lost, so I am going to assume Chaqa and lfischl have been pocketing Kakarroto.

[Kakarroto]

Both of these posts look so much like extreme pocketing that I am having a hard time believing one came from a scum teammate and another came from town.

so both are town?

or do you think now both are mafia and I'm too? Then again, that would be one mafia too much.

No, I meant maybe Chaqa and lfischl are the mafia and they are just trying to pocket you.

oh I'm aware of that possibility. I'm pretty sure I'm not letting lfischl influence me. I think I don't let chaqa do that too since I think my decision is based on other things, but I like a friendly chaqa towards me in any role, so maybe it subconsciously influences me at least to a small part.

my heart jumped and my hair stood up at least once from chaqa's comments and I questioned my read of him more than once. I'm aware I could be played here by chaqa. His chipotle thing though is strong and compared to damo or you, bozo, he made more sense during the game. Also, the only reasonable team he can be in would have to make three guesses for N1, a fact you never touched on despite it being your own survey.

So far I haven't seen a good reason to change my view that the chaqa-lfischl-heartthrob pairing is right compared to the other teams.

[Chaqa]

##VOTE Chaqa

If Kakarroto is mafia, town has already lost, so I am going to assume Chaqa and lfischl have been pocketing Kakarroto.

You have never once even considered I am town.

Unfortunately, I fear this means you may be town as well, and therefore we are doomed. Oh well.

[Kakarroto]

What were you talking about in this post?

I asked lfischl about the people here, well mostly I was interested in what he had to say about worcej, since at the time I thought that his former post 'shoot not worcej' with his scan might've been a sign he found the dog; this answer here made me pretty sure he did and tried his part to save worcej without outing him.

If you see my posts around this time, I tried to steer the overall direction away from worcej (even away from you bozo since I thought if worcej survived the night that might clear you, damo and lfischl, even when I totally disagree with your survey take)

but then worcej claimed and made the whole thing to clearing you all worthless

so the whole damo connection not with chaqa was with worcej, you and lfischl, at the time I thought, if that could be used to clear you all, town would surely win. But it never came to that.

and bo was totally unconnected to the thing, I was sure he was hiding bad stuff, but it seemed he hid good stuff and I misread. Anyway, I thought he would be a great alternative to be voted out so we could either clear a bunch of people or can focus on that group, if worcej turned up removed the next day, but after his claim, all that crumbled to dust.

I mean good that bo survived, sure, but bad bona did not.

What about the part of lfischl not seeing what you see?

while he connected damo and chaqa, I connected worcej with the scans and wanted to try to signal him (maybe in a strange way) (and reading it now, it's much more obscure but at the time all my thoughts were around my probable dog discovery there so I projected that he has to be thinking this too) that damo and worcej had a bigger connection, though I'm not sure anymore if that was before I figured that damo told both his scans D3 and not directly after asked.

but at the time, a linked net with worcej in the middle was a possibility which I saw for town to connect

[Kakarroto]

Since you seem to be using the dog check survey results, can you now tell us who you checked N1 and N2 (unless you have done so already and I missed it)?

would you even believe me now if I told you?

Maybe not, but there is no argument to keep it hidden anymore.

If you want to know, I petted Chaqa N1, you N2 (was contemplating worcej but decided on you), N3 and N4 I petted worcej

for Chaqa, I decided I have not enough information and he had a kinda high luck to roll PR in the last games.

for you, it was because of the passion? ferocity? with how strong you (and worcej) were defending the survey. I thought that you might be the dog because of it, less so worcej.

for worcej, it was to be 100% sure; he had claimed and as I said earlier, so that no other possible dog PR had to counterclaim, to confirm the role a pet action is enough. I thought, even when three other people said they petted him, the possibility that mafia might set this up and one town fudged their scan of him is there, so it's better to check

N4 petting worcej again was just to say that I have a 50% dog pet rate after four nights (for whatever brag rights that gives me)

[Kakarroto]

##VOTE Chaqa

If Kakarroto is mafia, town has already lost, so I am going to assume Chaqa and lfischl have been pocketing Kakarroto.

You have never once even considered I am town.

Unfortunately, I fear this means you may be town as well, and therefore we are doomed. Oh well.

the red one is untrue, I was considered it a few times, you just have to check our dialogue, to be frank, you telling me that is a bit of an insult since you judged me mafia just by resisting the survey.

So you don't think the mafia team damo+lfischl would work? I've put some thoughts out there, hope you had noticed, did you consider them? And where would I be wrong about that?

[Kakarroto]

Also, if I'm not wrong, vote count should look like this currently:

damo666 (2) - Kakarroto, Chaqa
bozotheclown (1) - lfischl
Kakarroto (1) - damo
Chaqa (1) - bozotheclown

[Kakarroto]

##VOTE Chaqa

If Kakarroto is mafia, town has already lost, so I am going to assume Chaqa and lfischl have been pocketing Kakarroto.

You have never once even considered I am town.

Unfortunately, I fear this means you may be town as well, and therefore we are doomed. Oh well.

the red one is untrue, I was considered it a few times, you just have to check our dialogue, to be frank, you telling me that is a bit of an insult since you judged me mafia just by resisting the survey.

So you don't think the mafia team damo+lfischl would work? I've put some thoughts out there, hope you had noticed, did you consider them? And where would I be wrong about that?

wait, I thought it was bozo that wrote that, not chaqa, sheesh, got totally trolled by my inability to read correctly. I'm sorry.

I guess my mind is exhausted if I make a mistake like that. Maybe I should take it a bit lighter.

Haven't heard from damo in a while and I'd like lfischl to answer/consider the question I asked him. Guess it's a good time for a break since there will probably no hammer today.

[Chaqa]

##VOTE Chaqa

If Kakarroto is mafia, town has already lost, so I am going to assume Chaqa and lfischl have been pocketing Kakarroto.

You have never once even considered I am town.

Unfortunately, I fear this means you may be town as well, and therefore we are doomed. Oh well.

the red one is untrue, I was considered it a few times, you just have to check our dialogue, to be frank, you telling me that is a bit of an insult since you judged me mafia just by resisting the survey.

So you don't think the mafia team damo+lfischl would work? I've put some thoughts out there, hope you had noticed, did you consider them? And where would I be wrong about that?

???

It was not for you…