Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:50 pm
Would be very easy at this point to bait a NK if we know that there's a PR still on the table.
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https://www.webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4308
This seems dumb enough to be a plan that could actually have been made N0.wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:21 pmbona's reaction to sabi outing a scumread on him is very jokey, indifferent. compare that to how aggressive he is toward other players
also notably willing to retreat from the red very easily at the word of confirmed mafia rumiBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:12 amMaybeRumi Tobari wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:09 am
You've been on Bona since the beginning of page 2, from my perspctive your read feels more based in something personal rather than anything factual.
doesn't really articulate any reason for suspecting bona and moves off after a while to make a vote on damo for fairly bad reasoning ("too shit stirry")
I really don't see a point in time where it looks like Besharam was serious about voting for Bona at all.wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:28 pmBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:03 pmI have played with wolf damo twice. NextBonatogether wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:06 pm
i call cap, idt you've even played with town and scum damo??BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:37 pmGood.
Any reason why you are behaving differently this game compares to m75Bonatogether wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:45 pmit's no longer summerBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:37 pm
Good.
Any reason why you are behaving differently this game compares to m75
i have hwBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 pmBona have you heard about sponging people's reads.Bonatogether wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:58 pm
interesting. what have you learned about bozo?
to agree with brainbomb's assessment of his play as each alignment, you necessarily have to know damo's alignment
Also you line of questioning is absurd
this is what i mean by "not trying to solve each other's alignment". these interactions are weak. there's slight hints of suspicion between them but no PRESSURE exerted. bona claims sabi is lying about damo but doesn't vote or push them. sabi asks bona why he's playing differently and says his line of questioning is absurd.
despite all of this, does sabi out a scumread on bona? no. they stay off bona at the deadline and vote bozo instead despite bona being a viable wagon. this is scum distancing. similar to how bona wouldn't actually commit to pushing demon. bona gives weak responses to sabi and sabi doesn't follow up to them, because there was never any curiosity in the first place
I'm surprised that given the opportunity to absolutely murder two wagons, one that you didn't believe in and one that you had only just warmed up to, with more pressure and a case on Besharam that would have a) forced Besharam to interact with a living teammate, and b) been a perfectly viable option for the remaining non-voters to jump on board with.wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:33 pm...yes?bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:26 pmAnd instead of considering what other options might be available or how we could spend the remaining hours of the day you tried to hammer?wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:36 pm
you're very silly
what actually happened, although i guess i didn't really make it explicit, is that damo talking to me convinced me he was town - the way he responded to me and was laying out his thoughts led me to believe he was thinking about the game, and all the arguments bona could give were "lol damo openwolfing" and then he faded from the game thread after that
because i was starting to find bona suspicious and his responses to me were absolutely terrible. he was being aggravating and snarky, trying to nitpick my arguments more than anything else.
it didn't look to me like a town motivated response - compare him and damo. damo was orderly and entertained the possibility if i was town, warned me voting him was a bad idea if i am town, and was laying out his suspicions, giving reasoning for his reads, and laying out what he thought the solve was if he was the daykill. by contrast bona was just being pointlessly aggressive and trying to pick apart my arguments rather than actually find scum - i observed similar behavior from mafia in a game i just finished.
of course there was a fair bit of emotion involved because i was pissed that bona was willfully playing dumb with his answers and shading me so that i was willing to kill him if he was town. but independent of that he did not give meany reason to believe he should live
Your last day was pretty scummy so yeah
You were in a three-way tie for the lead when he moved his vote with two hours to go in the day. That's not in danger of being killed?
RHK's play was terrible and whoever came up with the plan to go 1-for-1 with a VT is also terrible.
I'm not sure how an existing scumread is a preexisting bias. It's not like I just magically decided you were mafia. You did scummy things, and given your general lack of defense surrounding those things I assume you're aware that you made yourself suspicious regardless of your alignment. You don't seem unintelligent and I don't have any reason to believe that you're blind to the outward appearance of your own actions as some players are.wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pmagain, you want to look at our interactions and think it could be scum theater, you're free to do so
but you have to tell me: is them piling on me with their votes REALLY more likely than them distancing with sabi?
because it doesn't feel like you're really equally weighing the options here, you just looked at me and decided i'm scum based on preexisting biases
My problem with you is that you like exactly the same as last game where you were scum:bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:42 pmIs not voting for a scumread bad? I did not scumread Bona on D1 - and said so - and yesterday I was asking for clarification on a fair question that nobody ever provided, acknowledging the entire time that there was plenty of reason to believe he could be mafia if that question could be answered. You were the only one that even acknowledged the question. You said you couldn't answer it and acknowledged that it was fair to wonder. Beyond that there was no point in digging further to try and answer it myself considering the entire Bona wagon was unmoving and the four of you would overrule anything the remainder of us did since I wasn't going to cause a tie. You can figure out all of this yourself, and seemed to have figured it out during the day yesterday, instead of wanting to "stick with the obvious" that is not obvious at all.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:57 pmI still need to re-read Sabi, but right now I still stick with the obvious. Bo give the chance for Demon to hammer and was tryng to avoid a Bona kill yesterday. He also avoided voting Bona D1 tryng to jump on my wagon. Please don't give him a pass to him if I am not around tomorrow.wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:53 pmi think sabi asking to vote first on demon was performative, neon was clearly being stubborn by refusing to unvote and sabi only posted once or twice, it wasn't like they were fightig likehell with neon to do it - and then they voted demon anyway to enable the hammer. so i don't think that is clearing
If you actually know how I play mafia you know I'm not so much of a coward to refrain from bussing a teammate under pressure for the entire game at all. That's easy towncred all game long. I'd have been so thrilled to hammer him as a teammate.
Why would I, as a teammate of Rumi's, Demon's, and Bona's in your eyes, stick my neck out when I'm under zero pressure at all (and, knowing what we do now, the clear deep threat on the team) and claim not to know the mechanics surrounding a role to give the vengeful one kill? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Is it that hard to believe that someone who didn't have time to play also didn't have time to read the setup to know all the intricacies of it simply voted for someone who was obviously fake claiming? You claim it is obvious that I'm better than that, but you also suppose that I'm the dumbest player on the planet at the same time. It's contradictory.
I claim to not have read the setup because I didn't read the setup, and last game I neither read the setup nor even knew who my teammates were until N1 as scum.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:16 pmMy problem with you is that you like exactly the same as last game where you were scum:bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:42 pmIs not voting for a scumread bad? I did not scumread Bona on D1 - and said so - and yesterday I was asking for clarification on a fair question that nobody ever provided, acknowledging the entire time that there was plenty of reason to believe he could be mafia if that question could be answered. You were the only one that even acknowledged the question. You said you couldn't answer it and acknowledged that it was fair to wonder. Beyond that there was no point in digging further to try and answer it myself considering the entire Bona wagon was unmoving and the four of you would overrule anything the remainder of us did since I wasn't going to cause a tie. You can figure out all of this yourself, and seemed to have figured it out during the day yesterday, instead of wanting to "stick with the obvious" that is not obvious at all.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:57 pm
I still need to re-read Sabi, but right now I still stick with the obvious. Bo give the chance for Demon to hammer and was tryng to avoid a Bona kill yesterday. He also avoided voting Bona D1 tryng to jump on my wagon. Please don't give him a pass to him if I am not around tomorrow.
If you actually know how I play mafia you know I'm not so much of a coward to refrain from bussing a teammate under pressure for the entire game at all. That's easy towncred all game long. I'd have been so thrilled to hammer him as a teammate.
Why would I, as a teammate of Rumi's, Demon's, and Bona's in your eyes, stick my neck out when I'm under zero pressure at all (and, knowing what we do now, the clear deep threat on the team) and claim not to know the mechanics surrounding a role to give the vengeful one kill? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Is it that hard to believe that someone who didn't have time to play also didn't have time to read the setup to know all the intricacies of it simply voted for someone who was obviously fake claiming? You claim it is obvious that I'm better than that, but you also suppose that I'm the dumbest player on the planet at the same time. It's contradictory.
- Claim to not have read the setup.
- Scumread me for bullshit reasons.
- Save a scum saying it's to break a potential tie (jump from Snowy (scum) to Sabi).
I don't see you as a hard busser but you did buss Hamilton last game when he was obviously going down. Here you might have a point that bussing Bona is a good move as scum. But I don't scumread any of the people on Bona's wagon, so it's just NAI to me.
I didn't claim you are either the dumbest player or the smartest one. But your play on D3 was anti-town and you saying you didn't know about the hammer is just like last game to me.
Town have two shots to win this game and I think you should be one. The other shot right now seems to be Sabi to me, but I need to re-read them and also Wolfu.
BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pmFor number one, Gira you have seen me wolf enough at this point to know I Dont have a bussing meta as scum. I am anti bussing.wolfu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:47 pmrealistically i see two worlds:
1. sabi has been lolbussing damo since the early game and now considers him basically outed and is just going for that. Riot pointed out sabi's conclusions on damo early in the game didn't really make sense at all, damo's 180 on demon is really weird, i think a scumteam would probably want to distance from damo
2. sabi is trying to shield bona and go for the win. unlike damo sabi didn't really push bona, they did on day 1 but for non-viable reasons and then they backed off and were fencesitty with their read and were all too happy to follow me on calling bona town. this is in addition to two now confirmed scum tryin to save bona at the end of day 1 where i wouldn't see why they'd have reason to switch off
Idk how an obviously fake/sarcastic claim is supposed to convey a scumread. Is that an actual tactic?
okay, perhaps i'm just misunderstanding the question you were asking, because it seemed to express skepticism to my (attempted) hammerbo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:02 pmI'm surprised that given the opportunity to absolutely murder two wagons, one that you didn't believe in and one that you had only just warmed up to, with more pressure and a case on Besharam that would have a) forced Besharam to interact with a living teammate, and b) been a perfectly viable option for the remaining non-voters to jump on board with.
You don't need to justify voting for Bona to me; obviously you were right.
it's not an uncommon way of expressing things on other sites, yeah. it's understood that the n0 guilty is not literal but figuraivebo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:34 pmIdk how an obviously fake/sarcastic claim is supposed to convey a scumread. Is that an actual tactic?
I got a guilty scan N0 on you
You were in a three-way tie for the lead when he moved his vote with two hours to go in the day. That's not in danger of being killed?[/quote]considering the consensus was largely that the votes should be bozo/tom and no one else was supporting me, yeah, i'd say i was not in danger at all
okay so if that's the case what is he doing? why is he voting me then moving off at all if the association is just going to make me look bad? like you think his plan is to sacrifice himself then make all his teammates obviou?bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pmRHK's intentions all game long were clearly to get himself daykilled. Why would he want to bus any of his teammates when the entire purpose of his game is to look bad? He saved Bona D1 6 minutes after voting for him. Bussing meaningfully obviously was never his intention.
so i'm supposed to be the deep threat...but i'm fence-sitting on rhk and am wrong at first on bona before getting to the correct answer after others? doesn't track. the thing is, i'm actually pretty damn good as scum. that dose nothing to clear me but your argument is reliant on the notion that i am somehow a deep threat who also doesn't have a fucking clue how to properly bus or distance. it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pmRHK's play was terrible and whoever came up with the plan to go 1-for-1 with a VT is also terrible.
I don't think the plan was to get any towncred from bussing you. You and Rumi were both reasonable deep threats at that point. The only one that should have been getting bussed was Bona, and that probably would have happened much more quickly than D4 if RHK hadn't interrupted the proceedings.
the things you think i'm scummy for are incredibly dumbbo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pmI'm not sure how an existing scumread is a preexisting bias. It's not like I just magically decided you were mafia. You did scummy things, and given your general lack of defense surrounding those things I assume you're aware that you made yourself suspicious regardless of your alignment. You don't seem unintelligent and I don't have any reason to believe that you're blind to the outward appearance of your own actions as some players are.
I'm not ruling out Besharam being scum but you haven't convinced me to overlook what I see as towntelling. Obviously, given Bona manufactured a towntell, those aren't as reliable as I wish they were. But I don't give Besharam as much credit in that department as I do Bona.