M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2881 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:50 pm

Would be very easy at this point to bait a NK if we know that there's a PR still on the table.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2882 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:56 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:21 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
I think Bona is a hit
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
N0 red check on Bona.

Glglgl
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:05 am
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
I think Bona is a hit
?
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:06 am
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
N0 red check on Bona.

Glglgl
8-)
bona's reaction to sabi outing a scumread on him is very jokey, indifferent. compare that to how aggressive he is toward other players
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:12 am
Rumi Tobari wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:09 am

You've been on Bona since the beginning of page 2, from my perspctive your read feels more based in something personal rather than anything factual.
Maybe
also notably willing to retreat from the red very easily at the word of confirmed mafia rumi

doesn't really articulate any reason for suspecting bona and moves off after a while to make a vote on damo for fairly bad reasoning ("too shit stirry")
This seems dumb enough to be a plan that could actually have been made N0.

Bona: "Hey, Besharam, you're not the vengeful - RHK is - but you should soft fake claim and stick to it from D1 onwards. But make sure that your soft fake claim is a guilty on me, your teammate, so that if I, also not the vengeful but actually a role that is useful until all town PRs are dead, dies, you get some towncred from it. The vengeful is still alive, and you'll eventually get counterclaimed by the inventor, but who cares, you got some towncred!"

It's dumb, but I admit, it's dumb enough to be true.

The far likelier reason Bona knew that Besharam was not serious is because there was no way a town player could have gotten a N0 scan given there is no town cop and the inventor would have had to invent the scrying stone before it was used.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2883 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:57 pm

Can't explain why Besharam thought that would be fun/funny/useful. It's pretty stupid.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2884 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:00 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:28 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:03 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:06 pm

i call cap, idt you've even played with town and scum damo??
I have played with wolf damo twice. Next
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:37 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:34 pm


this is an actually disgusting post
Good.

Any reason why you are behaving differently this game compares to m75
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:45 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:37 pm


Good.

Any reason why you are behaving differently this game compares to m75
it's no longer summer 8-)
i have hw 8-)
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:58 pm


interesting. what have you learned about bozo?

to agree with brainbomb's assessment of his play as each alignment, you necessarily have to know damo's alignment
Bona have you heard about sponging people's reads.

Also you line of questioning is absurd

this is what i mean by "not trying to solve each other's alignment". these interactions are weak. there's slight hints of suspicion between them but no PRESSURE exerted. bona claims sabi is lying about damo but doesn't vote or push them. sabi asks bona why he's playing differently and says his line of questioning is absurd.

despite all of this, does sabi out a scumread on bona? no. they stay off bona at the deadline and vote bozo instead despite bona being a viable wagon. this is scum distancing. similar to how bona wouldn't actually commit to pushing demon. bona gives weak responses to sabi and sabi doesn't follow up to them, because there was never any curiosity in the first place
I really don't see a point in time where it looks like Besharam was serious about voting for Bona at all.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2885 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:02 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:33 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:26 pm
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:36 pm



you're very silly

what actually happened, although i guess i didn't really make it explicit, is that damo talking to me convinced me he was town - the way he responded to me and was laying out his thoughts led me to believe he was thinking about the game, and all the arguments bona could give were "lol damo openwolfing" and then he faded from the game thread after that
And instead of considering what other options might be available or how we could spend the remaining hours of the day you tried to hammer?
...yes?

because i was starting to find bona suspicious and his responses to me were absolutely terrible. he was being aggravating and snarky, trying to nitpick my arguments more than anything else.

it didn't look to me like a town motivated response - compare him and damo. damo was orderly and entertained the possibility if i was town, warned me voting him was a bad idea if i am town, and was laying out his suspicions, giving reasoning for his reads, and laying out what he thought the solve was if he was the daykill. by contrast bona was just being pointlessly aggressive and trying to pick apart my arguments rather than actually find scum - i observed similar behavior from mafia in a game i just finished.

of course there was a fair bit of emotion involved because i was pissed that bona was willfully playing dumb with his answers and shading me so that i was willing to kill him if he was town. but independent of that he did not give meany reason to believe he should live
I'm surprised that given the opportunity to absolutely murder two wagons, one that you didn't believe in and one that you had only just warmed up to, with more pressure and a case on Besharam that would have a) forced Besharam to interact with a living teammate, and b) been a perfectly viable option for the remaining non-voters to jump on board with.

You don't need to justify voting for Bona to me; obviously you were right.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2886 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
again, if you want to suspect distancing, that's fair play but i think you're not really considering the likelihood of that being the case, you're starting from the assumption i must be scum and biasing your view of previous events to do so
Your last day was pretty scummy so yeah
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
so if you're considering that, you have to ask yourself: why did demonrhk move his vote off me at all? i wasn't ever in danger of being the daykill so he could just as soon stay on me for cred if we were mafia together
You were in a three-way tie for the lead when he moved his vote with two hours to go in the day. That's not in danger of being killed?

RHK's intentions all game long were clearly to get himself daykilled. Why would he want to bus any of his teammates when the entire purpose of his game is to look bad? He saved Bona D1 6 minutes after voting for him. Bussing meaningfully obviously was never his intention.
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
if the plan was for them to bus me for the cred why would they not just keep doing that? why have demon fakeclaim at all (because he's the barbarian? idgi)
RHK's play was terrible and whoever came up with the plan to go 1-for-1 with a VT is also terrible.

I don't think the plan was to get any towncred from bussing you. You and Rumi were both reasonable deep threats at that point. The only one that should have been getting bussed was Bona, and that probably would have happened much more quickly than D4 if RHK hadn't interrupted the proceedings.
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
again, you want to look at our interactions and think it could be scum theater, you're free to do so

but you have to tell me: is them piling on me with their votes REALLY more likely than them distancing with sabi?

because it doesn't feel like you're really equally weighing the options here, you just looked at me and decided i'm scum based on preexisting biases
I'm not sure how an existing scumread is a preexisting bias. It's not like I just magically decided you were mafia. You did scummy things, and given your general lack of defense surrounding those things I assume you're aware that you made yourself suspicious regardless of your alignment. You don't seem unintelligent and I don't have any reason to believe that you're blind to the outward appearance of your own actions as some players are.

I'm not ruling out Besharam being scum but you haven't convinced me to overlook what I see as towntelling. Obviously, given Bona manufactured a towntell, those aren't as reliable as I wish they were. But I don't give Besharam as much credit in that department as I do Bona.
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2887 Post by rdrivera2005 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:16 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:42 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:57 pm
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:53 pm
i think sabi asking to vote first on demon was performative, neon was clearly being stubborn by refusing to unvote and sabi only posted once or twice, it wasn't like they were fightig likehell with neon to do it - and then they voted demon anyway to enable the hammer. so i don't think that is clearing
I still need to re-read Sabi, but right now I still stick with the obvious. Bo give the chance for Demon to hammer and was tryng to avoid a Bona kill yesterday. He also avoided voting Bona D1 tryng to jump on my wagon. Please don't give him a pass to him if I am not around tomorrow.
Is not voting for a scumread bad? I did not scumread Bona on D1 - and said so - and yesterday I was asking for clarification on a fair question that nobody ever provided, acknowledging the entire time that there was plenty of reason to believe he could be mafia if that question could be answered. You were the only one that even acknowledged the question. You said you couldn't answer it and acknowledged that it was fair to wonder. Beyond that there was no point in digging further to try and answer it myself considering the entire Bona wagon was unmoving and the four of you would overrule anything the remainder of us did since I wasn't going to cause a tie. You can figure out all of this yourself, and seemed to have figured it out during the day yesterday, instead of wanting to "stick with the obvious" that is not obvious at all.

If you actually know how I play mafia you know I'm not so much of a coward to refrain from bussing a teammate under pressure for the entire game at all. That's easy towncred all game long. I'd have been so thrilled to hammer him as a teammate.

Why would I, as a teammate of Rumi's, Demon's, and Bona's in your eyes, stick my neck out when I'm under zero pressure at all (and, knowing what we do now, the clear deep threat on the team) and claim not to know the mechanics surrounding a role to give the vengeful one kill? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Is it that hard to believe that someone who didn't have time to play also didn't have time to read the setup to know all the intricacies of it simply voted for someone who was obviously fake claiming? You claim it is obvious that I'm better than that, but you also suppose that I'm the dumbest player on the planet at the same time. It's contradictory.
My problem with you is that you like exactly the same as last game where you were scum:

- Claim to not have read the setup.

- Scumread me for bullshit reasons.

- Save a scum saying it's to break a potential tie (jump from Snowy (scum) to Sabi).

I don't see you as a hard busser but you did buss Hamilton last game when he was obviously going down. Here you might have a point that bussing Bona is a good move as scum. But I don't scumread any of the people on Bona's wagon, so it's just NAI to me.

I didn't claim you are either the dumbest player or the smartest one. But your play on D3 was anti-town and you saying you didn't know about the hammer is just like last game to me.

Town have two shots to win this game and I think you should be one. The other shot right now seems to be Sabi to me, but I need to re-read them and also Wolfu.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2888 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm

My order of preference at this point:

1st. wolfu - I am not likely to change my mind. D4 was scummy as hell. Staying away from RHK on D3 was also scummy, but claims they were working. Still had time to at least offer a take but did not.

Distant 2nd. Besharam - I can see the case, but it needs more substance and needs to go beyond Bona. I can see Besharam potentially trying to lurk as they realize they're the deep threat but they are struggling with it.

3rd. Damo - would require him bussing both of his daykilled teammates pretty hard, and particularly would mean two teammates bussed the tracker on D1. I don't really buy it.

I don't see a way anyone else is mafia at this point.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2889 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:16 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:42 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:57 pm


I still need to re-read Sabi, but right now I still stick with the obvious. Bo give the chance for Demon to hammer and was tryng to avoid a Bona kill yesterday. He also avoided voting Bona D1 tryng to jump on my wagon. Please don't give him a pass to him if I am not around tomorrow.
Is not voting for a scumread bad? I did not scumread Bona on D1 - and said so - and yesterday I was asking for clarification on a fair question that nobody ever provided, acknowledging the entire time that there was plenty of reason to believe he could be mafia if that question could be answered. You were the only one that even acknowledged the question. You said you couldn't answer it and acknowledged that it was fair to wonder. Beyond that there was no point in digging further to try and answer it myself considering the entire Bona wagon was unmoving and the four of you would overrule anything the remainder of us did since I wasn't going to cause a tie. You can figure out all of this yourself, and seemed to have figured it out during the day yesterday, instead of wanting to "stick with the obvious" that is not obvious at all.

If you actually know how I play mafia you know I'm not so much of a coward to refrain from bussing a teammate under pressure for the entire game at all. That's easy towncred all game long. I'd have been so thrilled to hammer him as a teammate.

Why would I, as a teammate of Rumi's, Demon's, and Bona's in your eyes, stick my neck out when I'm under zero pressure at all (and, knowing what we do now, the clear deep threat on the team) and claim not to know the mechanics surrounding a role to give the vengeful one kill? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Is it that hard to believe that someone who didn't have time to play also didn't have time to read the setup to know all the intricacies of it simply voted for someone who was obviously fake claiming? You claim it is obvious that I'm better than that, but you also suppose that I'm the dumbest player on the planet at the same time. It's contradictory.
My problem with you is that you like exactly the same as last game where you were scum:

- Claim to not have read the setup.

- Scumread me for bullshit reasons.

- Save a scum saying it's to break a potential tie (jump from Snowy (scum) to Sabi).

I don't see you as a hard busser but you did buss Hamilton last game when he was obviously going down. Here you might have a point that bussing Bona is a good move as scum. But I don't scumread any of the people on Bona's wagon, so it's just NAI to me.

I didn't claim you are either the dumbest player or the smartest one. But your play on D3 was anti-town and you saying you didn't know about the hammer is just like last game to me.

Town have two shots to win this game and I think you should be one. The other shot right now seems to be Sabi to me, but I need to re-read them and also Wolfu.
I claim to not have read the setup because I didn't read the setup, and last game I neither read the setup nor even knew who my teammates were until N1 as scum.

I had good reasons last game because you played poorly and gave me good reasons, which several people acknowledged but unfortunately did not kill you over, and I laid out good reasons on D1 this game for suspecting a lurker as a deep threat, which you are, and added more to it. I am really, really fed up with how lazily you play and how quickly you change your mind on people based exclusively on how they see you. It's mind boggling how your world view is so slim. And, as I pointed out before, you do this as town and scum. You really need to reflect on how ineffective that actually is.

I did potentially break a tie on D1 - with Rumi or anyone else deciding to hop in the last 60 seconds, a no vote on the lead wagon or a double vote on another wagon could have tied things - and if I remember right I did actually break a tie last game as scum. So I guess your case is that doing townie things makes me scum?

Saying my town game and scum game are so similar is a compliment, so thank you.

I bussed HB and celaph last game. I don't bus until it is advantageous to do so, which it absolutely would have been on D4 of this game. And the remaining mafia probably knew that and did.

I am going to stop responding to inquiries about whether or not I knew that RHK was the vengeful and intended to get daykilled because I did not and if you don't believe that then you're not going to, and that's your problem. I did know that my vote constitutes a hammer, which is why I've been rather careful with it all game.

I don't really care if you think I should be miskilled. Very few other people seem to have any issue townreading me based on several factors that they have laid out clearly, and you laid out some of those reasons yourself yesterday but forgot about them the moment that I recirculated by scum-has-a-lurker theory and voted for you. Stop playing that way.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2890 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Can't explain why Besharam thought that would be fun/funny/useful. It's pretty stupid.
it was obviously not a serious claim

my point is it was intended to convey a scumread on bona but there was very little pressure that was actually exerted toward him

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2891 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:33 pm

Maybe Bona didn't bus! Would be bad play, but they say themselves that that's what they would do.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm
wolfu wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:47 pm
realistically i see two worlds:

1. sabi has been lolbussing damo since the early game and now considers him basically outed and is just going for that. Riot pointed out sabi's conclusions on damo early in the game didn't really make sense at all, damo's 180 on demon is really weird, i think a scumteam would probably want to distance from damo

2. sabi is trying to shield bona and go for the win. unlike damo sabi didn't really push bona, they did on day 1 but for non-viable reasons and then they backed off and were fencesitty with their read and were all too happy to follow me on calling bona town. this is in addition to two now confirmed scum tryin to save bona at the end of day 1 where i wouldn't see why they'd have reason to switch off
For number one, Gira you have seen me wolf enough at this point to know I Dont have a bussing meta as scum. I am anti bussing.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2892 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:34 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Can't explain why Besharam thought that would be fun/funny/useful. It's pretty stupid.
it was obviously not a serious claim

my point is it was intended to convey a scumread on bona but there was very little pressure that was actually exerted toward him
Idk how an obviously fake/sarcastic claim is supposed to convey a scumread. Is that an actual tactic?

I got a guilty scan N0 on you

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2893 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:35 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:02 pm
I'm surprised that given the opportunity to absolutely murder two wagons, one that you didn't believe in and one that you had only just warmed up to, with more pressure and a case on Besharam that would have a) forced Besharam to interact with a living teammate, and b) been a perfectly viable option for the remaining non-voters to jump on board with.

You don't need to justify voting for Bona to me; obviously you were right.
okay, perhaps i'm just misunderstanding the question you were asking, because it seemed to express skepticism to my (attempted) hammer

the thing is, it was not that far from the deadline and sabi had posted but was not offering much input and i'm not sure they were going to say much at all - they seemed to have weakly caved in to allowing bona get voted out despite strongly claiming he was town the previous night

and so in my view with bona acting scummy in response to me the best possible thing is to vote him before people get scared and change their minds

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2894 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:36 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:34 pm
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Can't explain why Besharam thought that would be fun/funny/useful. It's pretty stupid.
it was obviously not a serious claim

my point is it was intended to convey a scumread on bona but there was very little pressure that was actually exerted toward him
Idk how an obviously fake/sarcastic claim is supposed to convey a scumread. Is that an actual tactic?

I got a guilty scan N0 on you
it's not an uncommon way of expressing things on other sites, yeah. it's understood that the n0 guilty is not literal but figuraive

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2895 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:40 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
again, if you want to suspect distancing, that's fair play but i think you're not really considering the likelihood of that being the case, you're starting from the assumption i must be scum and biasing your view of previous events to do so
Your last day was pretty scummy so yeah
okay, why was it scummy?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2896 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:40 pm

wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:40 pm
so if you're considering that, you have to ask yourself: why did demonrhk move his vote off me at all? i wasn't ever in danger of being the daykill so he could just as soon stay on me for cred if we were mafia together
You were in a three-way tie for the lead when he moved his vote with two hours to go in the day. That's not in danger of being killed?[/quote]considering the consensus was largely that the votes should be bozo/tom and no one else was supporting me, yeah, i'd say i was not in danger at all

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2897 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:41 pm

butchered that quote, oops

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2898 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:45 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm
RHK's intentions all game long were clearly to get himself daykilled. Why would he want to bus any of his teammates when the entire purpose of his game is to look bad? He saved Bona D1 6 minutes after voting for him. Bussing meaningfully obviously was never his intention.
okay so if that's the case what is he doing? why is he voting me then moving off at all if the association is just going to make me look bad? like you think his plan is to sacrifice himself then make all his teammates obviou?
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm
RHK's play was terrible and whoever came up with the plan to go 1-for-1 with a VT is also terrible.

I don't think the plan was to get any towncred from bussing you. You and Rumi were both reasonable deep threats at that point. The only one that should have been getting bussed was Bona, and that probably would have happened much more quickly than D4 if RHK hadn't interrupted the proceedings.
so i'm supposed to be the deep threat...but i'm fence-sitting on rhk and am wrong at first on bona before getting to the correct answer after others? doesn't track. the thing is, i'm actually pretty damn good as scum. that dose nothing to clear me but your argument is reliant on the notion that i am somehow a deep threat who also doesn't have a fucking clue how to properly bus or distance. it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2899 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:49 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm
I'm not sure how an existing scumread is a preexisting bias. It's not like I just magically decided you were mafia. You did scummy things, and given your general lack of defense surrounding those things I assume you're aware that you made yourself suspicious regardless of your alignment. You don't seem unintelligent and I don't have any reason to believe that you're blind to the outward appearance of your own actions as some players are.

I'm not ruling out Besharam being scum but you haven't convinced me to overlook what I see as towntelling. Obviously, given Bona manufactured a towntell, those aren't as reliable as I wish they were. But I don't give Besharam as much credit in that department as I do Bona.
the things you think i'm scummy for are incredibly dumb

i have been entirely willing to explain myself at every turn i'm not hiding anything

you overlook the things that should make me obvious town because you are tunneling. you are starting with the idea i am mafia and interpreting everything i do as scum motivated rather than making an objective assessment as to whether my actions are more likely to come from town or mafia

your weighing a singly flimsy very fakeable post over a body of work that shows sabi was interactin with demon and bona like they knew those two were scum is bad process

wolfu
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2900 Post by wolfu » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:49 pm

in general the level of logical thinking and analysis of interactions on display here is just...poor

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