M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[wolfu]

admittedly, folks like bozo and others were right on damo. i was biased from my earlier reading of damo to admit it at first. but i TOOK THOSE READS UNDER CONSIDERATION and combined with how damo was speaking i began to believe he was town. both because he was putting serious effort toward solving and because him trying to rush a vote on bozo didn't actually make a ton of sense as scum

[wolfu]

Come on everyone vote bozo and get this day ended early.

god this post is so scummy lmfao

yeah i think regardless of what we do today damo needs to eat it tomorrow

this is bona trying to pocket me by agreeing with my suspicion of damo

if our whole plan was going in on trying t get damo DKed...i probably just stick to tht i don't swap midway for no reason

but you don't often see two scum going "i suspect x", "i agree i also suspect x"

because they need to actually convince towns and use people's incorrect suspicions to get towns killed

[wolfu]

here's a bunch of quotes from sabi on bona from night 1:

You really care a lot about something that is just a post for him to group his reads.

Are you OK? Did a polar bear shit in your tent?

why are you so preoccupied with defending wolfu

if he's town he'll have a reason, if he's scum we can let him flounder

I'm not defending. I'm explaining his meta. I'm questioning why Bo is so aggresso over a reads list.

Why the fuck do you have an obsession with wolfu?

is this level of, uh, nitpickiness normal for bonatogether? i've only spectated some of his games on MU but would appreciate a frame of reference for his play here

It's not normal hence why I think something is off with him.

I'm not going to use the mu game where Bona randed scum because he had a lot of help from anne that game.

I will look into this game where Bona randed scum.

Just a night time reading

http://mafia.peterlund.se/m1022/game_status.html

I'm not defending. I'm explaining his meta. I'm questioning why Bo is so aggresso over a reads list.

Why the fuck do you have an obsession with wolfu?

you are in fact hard defending. own up to it.
"if he's town he'll have a reason, if he's scum we can let him flounder"

why the fuck do you lmfao

When have I hard defended him? List the receipts.

All I have done was explain his playstyle.

Get over yourself Bona. Your daddy isnt here to defend you.

i don't even know what to say because i feel like this is just misrepresentation of what i've actually been doing

Bona tbf you have been targeting them and saying everything is ego posting and what not.

Just lay it off. Take a deep breath.

fuck this game man

Bona what's your worldview.

Bona tbf you have been targeting them and saying everything is ego posting and what not.

Just lay it off. Take a deep breath.

if i have something to say, i want a straight answer

what else is the constant repetition of 'i play the same as town and scum'?

OK that's fine.

Anyway focus on other players for a bit. Relook at neon with fresh eyes. Ezpz

Bona what's your worldview.

neon refuses to answer the question

you refuse to acknowledge my point about wolfu

this irritates me

That's not a world view.

Give me a idea on what your mind is at with slots that aren't me and neon.

[wolfu]

no you might say, "why's that look bad? sabi was attacking him"

but the thing is, it just reads like completely pointless aggression. there's a bunch of questioning and anger directed at each other but never at any point does sabi meaningfully call bona scum. just asks him a question about his worldview and never interrogates it further. if they were actually interested in figuring out if he was scum or town i'd expect something more, some interrogation of his thought process, but it just concludes with an "if i die kill bona"

but i never get the sense sabi actually wants to kill bona. they aren't casing him, they aren't trying to convince others

[wolfu]

they do start to push on bona on day 2 but they abandon it midway. the thing is 1. bona's role was pretty bussable 2. sabi never really seemed to care about being convincing with the case 3. they backed down for an incredibly weak reason you can see here:

i dont want people to get upset because that's just not fun or good for the game

God damn it this is giving me towny Bona pings.

like, if you look at it...why is that post towny? at all? it makes no sense that sabi should be hard committed to pushing bona for posting mostly filler and then drop it because...he said he doesn't want people to get upset

[wolfu]

let's fast forward a little to night 3:

yeah i think regardless of what we do today damo needs to eat it tomorrow

Obviously one of Bonatogether, wolfu, and damo is town, I think Bonatogether and wolfu could be trying to set up damo here.

HOW DO THEY SET UP DAMO WHEN DAMO POSTED LET'S HAMMER YOU WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING BOZO.

Looking bery much like a Bona/Wolfu team.

@rdr @Bo @Ike you would be well advised to ignore Sabi.

Scummy post again.

Yawn.

Yes damo is outted and throwing whatever at the wall to make it stick.

He doesn't believe in anything he's pushing right now.

Damo here's a hint, you put your most confident first in a list.

i think im comfortable chilling

im not in a rush

@damo @bozo

Tell me how Bona is a wolf when here he is not trying to hammer bozo after demon fake red check.


Now compare to damo

##vote Bozo

Come on everyone vote bozo and get this day ended early.

In b4 sabi is defending their friend Bona

If Bona dies before damo then town deserves to lose because yall refuse to think.

I don't fucking care about your opinion.

Damo dies.

You wanted to wait a day to kill a wolf xyour opinion is worthless.

BONA IS TOWN.

FFS ARE YOU ALL DUMB

We are going to lose because bozo wants to kill Bona and not the outted scum damo

If I die, kill damo.

I swear anyone voting outside eof damo tomorrow is outted.

You are not paying attention to this game and you are not town leader in any possible way, so with this thing. And if Wolf keeps trying to pocket you he is the last scum.

Try to read and understand what Bozo is saying because he is the one doing an effort and a good analysis and you are just ignoring it.

The worst thing for town this game is that we will likely need to trust Bo and Ike to win this for town.

I HAVE READ THE GAME MORE THAN YOU RDR.

I AM SAYING BONA IS TOWN.

SEE, YOU HAVEN'T READ AT ALL.

I laid out why damo it outted. If you can't fucking read it then I can't help you.

BONA IS TOWN.

FFS ARE YOU ALL DUMB

Sabi, stop acting like you are the only one that can think and stop shouting, this is rude and unnecessary.

If you think Bona is town maybe you can explain why two scum made a great effort to save him on D1.

I am not sure about Damo, but saying Bona is town without considering what happened EOD1 is a good,way to lose the game.

Look at d3.

Why would scum Bona be like lol no I'm not hammering bozo while damo at the sand time is saying hammer bozo.

Please explain to me the scum motivation for Bona to push against the red check.

such PASSION, such CONVICTION, surely this is towny, no matter that their read on the mafia was wrong, right?

but wait...where did all that conviction go on Day 4?

[wolfu]

sabi posts 10 times because they get busy. they come back to people wanting to kill bona over damo. this is what tey say:

I'll add that while I don't think Besharam is scum, going from top poster to bottom poster is the wrong trend.

All their friends are dead

Except...me and Bona are still alive.

Sabi didn't really acknowledge the question I asked about who they would vote if Bona flips scum.

The problem is I do still believe they're just busy and done with the game. Trying to get Neon not to suicide-by-vengeful would have to be such a ballsy scum play. Idk.

I don't know who I would vote if Bona flips scum.

I will just sheep the consensus if I'm being honest.

I am busy as you know if you didn't bail this weekend

this is such a weak, muted reaction. Where is the shouting about how bona is town and we are going to lose if he's daykilled? what happened to all that conviction sabi had? why aren't they defending their townread anymore when they were ready to shout people down before that?


the obvious answer is that bona is sabi's scummate and they didn't want to look bad by hard defending him when he was likely to go down. the townread on him was never real. it is basically impossible for me to bridge the gap between sabi defending bona so aggressively and then weakly accepting his death while having barely read the game. if i was busy and afk from a game and saw people wagoning my townread i'd flip out. town sabi defends their townreads aggressively. it makes no sense for them to have rolled over on bona so quickly. the posting here just looks like deflated scum more than anything

[wolfu]

idk if bo is gonna explain why my play yesterday was scummy anytime soon


but regardless, bo, i'd like you to entertain a thought exercise, at least

say i'm voted out tomorrow and flip town. who will you be looking at as the most likely mafia then?

[rdrivera2005]

Is not voting for a scumread bad? I did not scumread Bona on D1 - and said so - and yesterday I was asking for clarification on a fair question that nobody ever provided, acknowledging the entire time that there was plenty of reason to believe he could be mafia if that question could be answered. You were the only one that even acknowledged the question. You said you couldn't answer it and acknowledged that it was fair to wonder. Beyond that there was no point in digging further to try and answer it myself considering the entire Bona wagon was unmoving and the four of you would overrule anything the remainder of us did since I wasn't going to cause a tie. You can figure out all of this yourself, and seemed to have figured it out during the day yesterday, instead of wanting to "stick with the obvious" that is not obvious at all.

If you actually know how I play mafia you know I'm not so much of a coward to refrain from bussing a teammate under pressure for the entire game at all. That's easy towncred all game long. I'd have been so thrilled to hammer him as a teammate.

Why would I, as a teammate of Rumi's, Demon's, and Bona's in your eyes, stick my neck out when I'm under zero pressure at all (and, knowing what we do now, the clear deep threat on the team) and claim not to know the mechanics surrounding a role to give the vengeful one kill? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Is it that hard to believe that someone who didn't have time to play also didn't have time to read the setup to know all the intricacies of it simply voted for someone who was obviously fake claiming? You claim it is obvious that I'm better than that, but you also suppose that I'm the dumbest player on the planet at the same time. It's contradictory.

My problem with you is that you like exactly the same as last game where you were scum:

- Claim to not have read the setup.

- Scumread me for bullshit reasons.

- Save a scum saying it's to break a potential tie (jump from Snowy (scum) to Sabi).

I don't see you as a hard busser but you did buss Hamilton last game when he was obviously going down. Here you might have a point that bussing Bona is a good move as scum. But I don't scumread any of the people on Bona's wagon, so it's just NAI to me.

I didn't claim you are either the dumbest player or the smartest one. But your play on D3 was anti-town and you saying you didn't know about the hammer is just like last game to me.

Town have two shots to win this game and I think you should be one. The other shot right now seems to be Sabi to me, but I need to re-read them and also Wolfu.

I claim to not have read the setup because I didn't read the setup, and last game I neither read the setup nor even knew who my teammates were until N1 as scum.

I had good reasons last game because you played poorly and gave me good reasons, which several people acknowledged but unfortunately did not kill you over, and I laid out good reasons on D1 this game for suspecting a lurker as a deep threat, which you are, and added more to it. I am really, really fed up with how lazily you play and how quickly you change your mind on people based exclusively on how they see you. It's mind boggling how your world view is so slim. And, as I pointed out before, you do this as town and scum. You really need to reflect on how ineffective that actually is.

I did potentially break a tie on D1 - with Rumi or anyone else deciding to hop in the last 60 seconds, a no vote on the lead wagon or a double vote on another wagon could have tied things - and if I remember right I did actually break a tie last game as scum. So I guess your case is that doing townie things makes me scum?

Saying my town game and scum game are so similar is a compliment, so thank you.

I bussed HB and celaph last game. I don't bus until it is advantageous to do so, which it absolutely would have been on D4 of this game. And the remaining mafia probably knew that and did.

I am going to stop responding to inquiries about whether or not I knew that RHK was the vengeful and intended to get daykilled because I did not and if you don't believe that then you're not going to, and that's your problem. I did know that my vote constitutes a hammer, which is why I've been rather careful with it all game.

I don't really care if you think I should be miskilled. Very few other people seem to have any issue townreading me based on several factors that they have laid out clearly, and you laid out some of those reasons yourself yesterday but forgot about them the moment that I recirculated by scum-has-a-lurker theory and voted for you. Stop playing that way.

First of all, I don't think you should be misskilled, I think you are scum.

Second, I don't think my play is unefecttive. Last game I identified both Snowy and you because the way you both tried to set me up. I also identified Bona as scum based on simple vote analysis logic, which you seem unable to understand and just kept saying "why Bona voted for a PR claimant" which is not a towny tell in any way. So, maybe you should reflect about your play if you are town.

Third, who said you are obviously town? Your only towny moment was that emotional outburst, but it can be easily done as annoyed scum too. And the fact you seem to be getting a pass worries me, because I think I might be NKed or shot tonight.

[rdrivera2005]

I wish Sabi and Pixxy were around.

[wolfu]

probably going to take a nap before daystart but should be around after

[pyxxy]

I wrote this last night but I just checked in on the thread at 10 minutes to go and I didn't expect so much activity so I'm not caught up and won't be before EON so just posting this now.

------------

There are two possibilities. Either there is a backup day vig or there's a 4th role that we need to be playing around.

What I wanted to think about is, with each passing day is it getting more or less likely that the last role is or is not the day vig. Yesterday I thought that no shot fell under occam's razor. No day vig means there's no day vig.

I gave this more consideration last night and I'm not sure this is true. I think that as town, we're fairly scattered and haven't formed a true POE (under bo's definition). Shooting anyone with the day vig would provide more info to town and would clear someone off of at least 1 person's suspicious list, which might move unwanted attention to the last scum.

The other suspicion, and I haven't re-done the math on this but I think it's true, is that scum is holding it for if they hit the Commuter. This makes the most sense to me. Missing a shot might lead to a claim, a confirmed town, and a further narrowing of a potential POE. What I don't know is if this means that the Commuter should claim or not. I think it might depend on if they still have usages left. If they have no uses left, I might tell them to _not_ claim, because there's no way to confirm unless we DK them, because scum will certainly avoid them unless the heat gets too strong.

Which as I write this leads me to believe that claiming now is mostly pointless. I would tell the commuter to continue to play weird low odds mindgames with the last scum and maybe we get lucky and you skip town when you're the NK.

The other reason not to reveal is if we really get down to the milo and need to try and not kill town. If we still have the commuter, and they still have 1 usage, that's basically the best odds scenario for dodging the NK and giving town more time to catch the last scum slipping up.

------------

The only situation where this is maybe actually bad is if we consider the (imo) low percentage chance where there is no backup, and instead it's something like what HR suggested a while back about Cleric (deathproof).

In this case, scum is basically playing the same game, but I think that means we lose milo because of the extra night. I really doubt this is the case but without a shot to confirm once and for all that backup was taken, we can't rule this out.

Of course I'm not sure what to do with this conclusion. It just means that milo might actually be kilo is there's deathproof, I think that's the only takeaway, and so if we're not confident that we will get more info from another day + there's no shot yet, we might want to consider DKing during milo.

[pyxxy]

ugh I'm still on p143 middle of damo wolfu if i die kill wolfu

[Chaqa]

Night has ended. Please hold.

[Chaqa]

RDRIVERA2005 has died. He was Kato the Kobold!

You may post.

[pyxxy]

hm

rip rdr

[pyxxy]

My plan was to catch up and then be ready to think ate lunch quickly to plan for this but now I might only have time to catch up

could anyone actually acknowledge my posts about why sabi makes sense as mafia with demon and bona?

I did. And do. I think if you flip town then sure we can flip sabi next, but I'm pretty confident that you're scum after yesterday's progression on how you felt about Bona.

But I also recognize that your points are basically going against what my gut told me and tells me about sabi in this game. Yeah I'm sure they can fake emotions but idk back when I talked about on N3, before we nailed Bona:

I don't like the way Bo voted before letting Neon consider moving his vote. If Sabi is scum Bo is likely his partner.

Sabi's not scum. I've been townreading them since like D2. Wanting to die is competely on brand (I read down a few posts but I'm quoting you rdr so that you and I are on the same page and are talking to each other)

sure

so the general feeling i get is i'm not sure i see sabi working toward anything in their posts

normally my expectation is they try to build a towncore etc and they do give a few townreads once but they don't do it a lot, they don't build on those reads

they have two scumreads: you and damo. and the reasoning for both feels pretty unfair?

[wolfu wall post continues after here, cut for space reasons]

*wolfy pop in*

Nyquil didn't put me to sleep so I was doing stuff to prep for next weekend.

Yea I'm not being my usual self this game. The set up is weird and the atmosphere is uncomfortable for me. I am struggling to find other town people and people are just not playing like they usually do hence why my ability to make a town core is not here.

I dunno, I just feel a bit lost.

But yea I'm going to try to get better at this game.

But yea scum reads are fine on me. I need some sort of pressure to push me.

I agree with this sentiment. I actually kinda expected Neon and Sabi to towncore each other on D1. I got a lot of mutually trusting vibes from the two of them. And I don't think it would have been a bad thing. I think Sabi would be in a better place rn with a partner by their side, even if they were hypothetically being pocketed. I think Sabi just plays better that way.

In before someone says I'm saying that Sabi is immune to pocketing

Kinda raises the question of "Would scum!Sabi experiment with acting this way?" I mean, it is a different Sabi than I've ever seen before. Pretty much everyone agrees on this point.

But I'm not convinced it's scummy. At least not actively. Sure if Sabi is alive on D5 and hasn't really solved anything then that would be sus, but rn I think it's fine. Someone needs to shout at Bona

My townread is based on Sabi repeatedly showing humility and admitting to being different. It's not 100% accurate, see: Bona has been super different and way more humble than he normally is, but he comes off as way more sus than Sabi.

Like maybe this is a meta-read too since I've known Sabi for a while now and I'm being tricked into thinking that I can read tone and mood etc etc tldr it's town!Sabi, it's just gotta be.

Honestly Neon and Sabi being friends makes a lot of sense and having a competition for who gets to die to vengeful in order to leave the game is just so incredibly on brand.

I wavered a bit on this yesterday but having slept on it, and maybe I'm responding before truly reading your case against sabi, idk I'm just gut townreading sabi.

[pyxxy]

This really is a funky little situation.

wolfu lost his control by thinking he was hammering (he hasn't posted since either)

So bo gets to hammer the day when he feels like it.

Re: opinion from a Bona voter, I'm the wrong person to ask about that part of the day. My suspicions lie in more in how he interacted (or didn't) with demon.

But I will say that wolfu, you kinda branched off my post on Bona. Especially when I went and found and highlighted his list of reads that you quoted a few hours ago. That makes me feel weird. Maybe I'm just narcassistic and wanted credit, though.

i think rdrivera is basically always town. just buy that he's legitimately scumhunting here

sorry if I'm having a classic webdip EOD moment rn

wolfu are you just echoing what other people including myself have said about rdr?

context so that it's not completely taken out of context
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... d=w:316037

no, i'm not really trying to echo what you say ftr (that is something i rarely do as mafia). i'm just...doing my own research largely and coming to the same conclusions as you

idk what to do with this information

[pyxxy]

@pyxxy I am assuming you are commuter. Did you ever hardclaim?

Anyone?

pyxxy's not the commuter he said he was waiting for the commuter to claim before he counter claimed demon

^

maybe you're confused about the scan stuff damo

[pyxxy]

@pyxxy I am assuming you are commuter. Did you ever hardclaim?

Anyone?

Damo, this is the type of post that get you miskilled a lot if you are town. Why do you feel the need to ask this question at night?

To be misleading? Now they don't know which way to jump do they?

yeah damo it's things like this and the bozo insta vote that make people like sabi scumread you