M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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celaph
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2981 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:40 am

damo666 wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:49 am
Having relooked at vote history I have to put Bo back on the table.

Wolfu day 1 vote I find hard to fathom as scum.

My thinking is

Bo 40%
Sabi 40%
Wolfu 20%


Celaph I would like to hear your thinking.
Tell me more about why you think Wolfu doesn't vote that way D1.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2982 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:14 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:50 pm
Bona: is scum
Scum: does not want Bona to die, but if he’s going to wants to be townread as a result

You: townreads Bona
You, later, as Bona is looking likely to die: starts scumreading Bona
You, when it is basically certain Bona will die: LOOK AT ME, HIS DEATH IS BECAUSE OF ME AND ONLY ME, NOT YOU ALL, JUST ME. I DID THIS. WATCH ME HAMMMMMMMEEEEERRRRR!!!!!

Me: wow wolfu that’s kinda weird doncha think
You: no, and you better spend hours explaining it to me because I will not accept this slander
i think this is a very poor exaggeration

when i started to turn against bona the votes were split 2-2

the day really could have gone either way and no one had so much as stated a lean

if i had...actually wanted to save bona i would have done that

it rather makes no sense that the argument is based around me wanting to save bona when i didn't really try to do that, and instead i LISTENED to the arguments being provided and changed my mind

because that is what you are supposed to do as town
Wolfu certainly looks the better of the two in this exchange. There was plenty to be suspicious of between Bona and Wolfu, but I think Bo loses a lot of it in the drama and seems more worried about making the case than the case being right.

Like, if I wanted to make a town Wolfu argument I would center it around his apparent doubt here:
wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:11 am
also, why on earth is bona mafia?
wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:29 am
i looked at demon's posts in the bot and couldn't find much in the way of mentions of bona which doesn't tell me a whole lot

i guess him jumping away from bona day 1 could be something but that's weak

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2983 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:59 pm
i think i made a post about about this but i'm not sure
Is it bad that I townread the willingness to not check for self-consistency here? I have to give it to Wolfu in that if they are faking aspects of this, they're doing well to craft a compelling fake image.
the stuff about hedging is not really a scumtell but a linguistic choice for me. in general when i look at things i'm going to see a variety of possibilities and will discuss outcomes in terms of probabilities etc. i won't call someone definite scum and start pushing until i am confident
I feel like the people who share this take tend to be scum. Granted, I've never seen you play before so I can't comment on your particularly, but it does make me go :? .
celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:49 am
9)
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:40 pm
the reasons given for townreading bona have mainly been due to him being loud, which i don't think is a good reason to townread someone
um... no...?
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:00 am
bona keeps coming across as genuine when he posts
wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:03 am
i would still think he's town, in allhonesty, because the very particular attitude toward the game he's shown is not one that scum fakes
Sorta skimmed the rest because reading a lot is hard.
i'm not talking about the reasons from me - i believe at that time i had went back to re-check riot's reads list
Useful context, thanks.

Nothing particularly offensive here in Wolfu's responses. Moving them from :sick: to :? .

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2984 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:23 pm
celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:01 am
tl;dr
I think that Wolfu actually started out the game with some decent D1 analysis, though it has not stayed. I think he has had a fundamentally warped view of the game at a number of points that are indicative of either a scum or a very wrong towny and I think the former. I'm a little off-put by all the talk about Demon/Bona's D2 behavior, but then again I haven't read what they said.

In a vacuum I don't mind his push on Sabi, but I should probably read Sabi's posts next.
i will not hesitate to admit that i was particularly wrong this game. i would disagree that being so exceptionally wrong is a scumtell. the fact is generally people with an informed perspective are able to position themselves better. in my most recent game almost every town player defended the mafia i caught on day 1, for not very good reasons. i had to cycle through suspecting them before realizing the scum was the player i mistakenly cleared for VCA reasons. that player had kept both mafia comfortably in their null reads.

i was wrong on who the mafia were this game but i made basically o meaningful effort to save them, it's not play that comes from a scum motivation

i also got a ton of shit for playing Day 1 the way i did and i think it negatively impacted how i chose to play the following days along with me losing confidence in my own reads due to having been very wrong early on. i also i think became harder and harder to keep track of everyone and what they were doing
I should be more clear, my feeling that your view of the game was warped wasn't really that you were wrong, but that you were coming to conclusions that I had a really hard time understanding or were for bad reasons. For example, see my thoughts on your D2 Tom push.

That said, your recent post pointed out where I was wrong on your progression on Bona which was useful. My comment was partially based on wildly inconsistent statements about Bona which you've helped give some needed context to. Hence my change in your read.
celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:03 am
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:29 pm
i realistically have NO idea how you could get the idea that i am mafia when bona and demon tried to tag team bury me on day 2

that's not a thing that mafia teammates do, ever


was i drastically wrong on them? yes. it's been a while since scum tried to go after me like that and my typical expectation is that people tunneling me wrongly are town. but if you believe our plan was them bussing me why do i respond the way i do?

additionally bona tried to pocket me when it looked like i was willing to push damo and then flipped on me again when i changed my mind (because damo was towntelling). that's...not teammate behavior
From your perspective, what's the towniest thing you've done this game?
and my whole re-evaluation on bona day 4 is something i'm proud of even if people keep trashing me over it
8-) 8-) 8-)

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2985 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am

The more I hear from Wolfu the townier he sounds...

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2986 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:42 am

pyxxy wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:38 am
- fox/Ike/celaph: honestly I'm stumped on this one, this seems like a better target for you than rdr, because you could have both pushed your sabi case and had damo + rdr pushing a bo case, and then you've got all your cases bovered i mean bases covered
Me dying last night would be a fear kill 100% of the time. I think most scum just risk the odds that new town won't solve the game first day in.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2987 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:14 am

Time to read the game, Sabi Edition:
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
I think Bona is a hit
Is Sabi known for their bus driving?

Edit: I'm part way through D2 and I think there push against Bona is more notable than ever. I totally see the complaint that they aren't really trying to resolve many people in the game, but they seem to be pushing a scum Bona narrative rather well.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:20 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:14 pm
i dont want people to get upset because that's just not fun or good for the game
God damn it this is giving me towny Bona pings.
What do you find towny in this? I just read it as Bona being agreeable.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:29 am
Whatever I feel weird about voting Bona now

##VOTE no kill atm
I feel like the move off Bona is a little easy, but then again, I'm discounting their reason for finding Bona towny.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:41 pm
DemonRHK wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:31 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:24 pm


1) uh these were my two Rands at mafia on webdip (not going to link the non webdip ones because they were horrible) http://mafia.peterlund.se/m1021/game_status.html http://mafia.peterlund.se/m71/game_status.html

2) I wasn't there at eod because ejob interview

3) I did claim trying to do inventor cover during sod2

4) I kinda did by doubting dargo
Also why are you refuting points wby trying to make yourself look worse? At best that translates to a poor shield of a scummate in my experience.
I am just saying that your reasons to have me as highest tr don't make sense in terms of my game play.

I'm not shielding anyone. I just don't know how you got to that read on me.
I don't get s/s vibes from this interaction.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:32 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:19 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:12 pm


I'm friends with most of the people here so I dont get this argument.

Anyway demon, why is Rumi feeling like this about you? You haven't answered her.
to some extent, you are a lot more buddy-buddy with some people over others
Bona, you're literally in my server for my fucking cat. Please stop.

I bully you because you need it. If I buddied you, you would scum read me.


Anyway I rather just go to damo atp

##VOTE damo sry if wrong
I feel like you had some great scum reads on Bona (which you've dropped to some extent) and Demon and you some how end up on Damo? It's easy to talk from my position, but you were so close to greatness.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:02 pm
I have a 4th living townread

It's Bona.

Please clap.

He joins Rumi, Neon, and pyxxy.
A little over an hour before this, we were at " Bona, he just exists." What changed in between now and then that changed your mind?

-----------------------------------
@sabi, perhaps I'm just slow and/or not clear as a sub, but can you point me to where Damo outed himself?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2988 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:19 am

I feel like my read on Sabi is hurting from a lack of obvious explanations for their takes. There is certainly things to raise an eyebrow at here, but I want to hear more from them.

In the mean time, ##vote bo because he's next on my to read list and I like mixing it up. Would love to hear people's takes on Bo.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2989 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:20 am

Also, from listening to other people it sounds like Pyxxy is conf town or very close to it. Damo is town in most people's eyes except Sabi. I'm town though I'm not entirely sure why.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2990 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:32 am

Side note: way today is going ~0% chance I kill Wolfu simply because he's talking and the only other person talking is Pyxxy who will probably die tonight and I don't want to be alone tomorrow.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2991 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:11 am

I am now doubting scum had UB as I think there would have been a shot by now (looking at all 3 suspects I think they would have Celaph or maybe me).

I suspect last scum is hooker or deathproof.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2992 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:14 am

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:32 am
Side note: way today is going ~0% chance I kill Wolfu simply because he's talking and the only other person talking is Pyxxy who will probably die tonight and I don't want to be alone tomorrow.
Beware of the tie. I think it better to consolidate on Sabi and if we are wrong work it out tomorrow.

Is anybody particularly TOWNREADING Sabi?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2993 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:59 am

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:40 am
damo666 wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:49 am
Having relooked at vote history I have to put Bo back on the table.

Wolfu day 1 vote I find hard to fathom as scum.

My thinking is

Bo 40%
Sabi 40%
Wolfu 20%


Celaph I would like to hear your thinking.
Tell me more about why you think Wolfu doesn't vote that way D1.
Two minutes out at Bona 4 wor 4 wolfu switches from wor to rdr thus putting Bona in the lead. Doubtful play as scum. Demon and Rumi are forced to save semi outing themselves. It should be noted bo also switches to wor via rdr although he claims this was to avoid a tie.
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2994 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:01 pm

celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:06 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm
My order of preference at this point:

1st. wolfu - I am not likely to change my mind. D4 was scummy as hell. Staying away from RHK on D3 was also scummy, but claims they were working. Still had time to at least offer a take but did not.

Distant 2nd. Besharam - I can see the case, but it needs more substance and needs to go beyond Bona. I can see Besharam potentially trying to lurk as they realize they're the deep threat but they are struggling with it.

3rd. Damo - would require him bussing both of his daykilled teammates pretty hard, and particularly would mean two teammates bussed the tracker on D1. I don't really buy it.

I don't see a way anyone else is mafia at this point.
Can you say why I'm not mafia?
The dude you replaced wasn’t mafia
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2995 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:02 pm

celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:11 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:17 pm
I wouldn’t have killed rdr, it’s way too fun to constantly beat him and his baseless arguments
You know this is a meaningless argument.
I wasn’t making an argument. I was making a joke.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2996 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:09 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:14 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:50 pm
Bona: is scum
Scum: does not want Bona to die, but if he’s going to wants to be townread as a result

You: townreads Bona
You, later, as Bona is looking likely to die: starts scumreading Bona
You, when it is basically certain Bona will die: LOOK AT ME, HIS DEATH IS BECAUSE OF ME AND ONLY ME, NOT YOU ALL, JUST ME. I DID THIS. WATCH ME HAMMMMMMMEEEEERRRRR!!!!!

Me: wow wolfu that’s kinda weird doncha think
You: no, and you better spend hours explaining it to me because I will not accept this slander
i think this is a very poor exaggeration

when i started to turn against bona the votes were split 2-2

the day really could have gone either way and no one had so much as stated a lean

if i had...actually wanted to save bona i would have done that

it rather makes no sense that the argument is based around me wanting to save bona when i didn't really try to do that, and instead i LISTENED to the arguments being provided and changed my mind

because that is what you are supposed to do as town
Having done improv comedy on a major stage I can only say that an audience doesn’t want to feel like what they are watching is fake. It’s supposed to flow, which is why improv artists and comedians preach agreement - go with the flow, don’t introduce awkward plot twists that are hard to keep up with. Simultaneously the expectation is that nobody steals the show; everyone is on the same stage and has the same goal of keeping an audience both listening and laughing. That’s really all you want.

From the outside perspective of someone that does not know your role the way you “hammered” Bona looked fake, completely out of touch with how you normally react and play, and ultimately like you wanted to be the star of the day. I am sorry that your perspective is so warped that you can’t even bend a little bit let alone acknowledge such a simple thing.

You aren’t going to change my mind on this matter because I’m clearly right so stop wasting your breath.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2997 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:11 pm

Giving Besharam the tiebreaker when one of the options would be self voting is not on my list of things to do today, so I’m either not voting or, if the shoe fits, voting for Besharam.

If Besharam votes for me, yall have given me the tiebreaker when one of my options would be to self vote, which is also not recommended. Someone should be unvoting right now.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2998 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:21 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:22 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm
Distant 2nd. Besharam - I can see the case, but it needs more substance and needs to go beyond Bona. I can see Besharam potentially trying to lurk as they realize they're the deep threat but they are struggling with it.
again, i have made arguments beyond how sabi handled bona - i thought sabi's lengthy argument with demon that went nowhere was pointless and sabi did not really try to read demon or solve him at all as well. i think bona and demon attacking me is likely because i started being vocally suspicious of sabi. i thik sabi's play itself has been limp and not shown solving intent but has rather involved performatively distancing from when town was making incorrect votes.

i have explained this all in painstaking detail


i get the feeling that because i am unfamiliar to the regulars here, my cases are being glossed over or dismissed out of pocket rather than being given actual consideration. it is like my words do not really have value because people do not know me. i find it very aggravating to deal with.
Your cases are being glossed over because everyone glosses over everyone’s cases. This game is full of inactivity and had fewer players than normal and is easily still breaking 150 pages. Aint nobody got time for 10 paragraph long cases. You gotta give us the college style thesis statement or give your case the Buzzfeed YOU WON’T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT treatment to keep us into it.

In all seriousness, I have read your case - the first, second, and 67th time you made it - and given it consideration, which is the only reason I even considerwd that Besharam might be scum after saying with complete certainty earlier in the game that that was not the case. Do you expect me to regurgitate it back to you verbatim? Do you expect me to do my own longwinded analysis to try to build onto it? Some players might do that but I really don’t see a need.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2999 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:22 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:02 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:40 am
This is said game

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?t=2417

I play under Sabiplz
also, the "this isn't my scumgame" [drop link with no explanation] argument was literally used against me by sabi in our last game together

they were on a 3rd party scumteam that game
Yeah I don’t like this post by Besharam at all

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3000 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:27 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:30 am
most of rumi's posts about sabi aren't particularly illuminating but this reads list is worth highlighting.
Rumi Tobari wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:44 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:48 am
Hi can everyone share their general reads about people. I'm trying to see something
BesharamSabi - no particularly strong opinions, but I reread after bozo said wolfu's case was interesting and... Sabi doesn't feel too different to me? Everything they're doing feels within expectations? Neon knows Sabi better so I'm going to trust her if she says something might be off. no read, but trusting neon here.

bozotheclown - I was kind of ready to vote bozo, but then he comes along and explains whats been going on in a clear concise way (remniscent of President Eden last game) that is easily understood and makes me all "ohhh", and feels more value-adding than all the survey talk. maybe town? no read?

Bonatogether - related to the above, I was kinda scumreading Bona for some of the same reasons as Sabi was citing, but then Bozo comes along and kinda paints eveyrthing Bona did in a different light, which throws my entire read into a tizzy because I didn't think there was a different light. maybe scum but maybe town?

bo_sox - I barely remember anything bo has said. no read.

damo666 - doing more than last time, I don't know if that's meaningful because we afk killed him D1. null.

dargorygel - I didn't think darg was a good vote D1, but I also couldn't see anything particular that everyone else was. When he said "I crumbed" I read it as "I crumbled" and took it to mean that he choked in some way and gave up when everyone was voting for him, and then I felt really kinda bad about not being able to more strongly push back against voting for him. We'll find out if he's JOAT at EOD.

DemonRHK - some of DemonRHK's actions feel convenient and insincere, particularly positing that I'm "not that smart" for the paladin play then aboutfacing and being "she's a lowkey sociopath". This is is just my interpretation of the intent, but those feel like opposiing views, and that's reminding me of things I found suspicious in Neon last game. Similarly, he was like "damo guilty" then the moment damo townreads he turns around and says he's tunneling and unvotes. Feels very convenient, but I've never seen him play so I don't know if its meaningful. Kinda leaning scum.

Hellenic Riot - feels very solvey in his one big post, but I think his opinion on deathproof is enlightening, because I recall rdr having a similar role last game and thinking it sucked and wrote it off. But the explanation made me realize it was more useful than it looks. Interesting views and ideas. leaning town.

Princess Neon - feels like an entirely different person in this game, strongest townread I have.

pyxxy is feeling a little more towny and participatory than D1, which is in line with what I was expecting based on last game.
Princess Neon wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:09 pm
RagingIke297 - who?
He said like, three things on N1 (actualy six according to the bot), all I remember of them was the emoting at DRHK. No strong opinions at this time? But considering the sub is based on the other player's non presence on the forum for a week (as opposed to Byz or Neon last game), I don't think swinging the sub is a good plan. total null, not enough info.

rdrivera2005 - rdr doesn't feel different from last time, but given rdr's scheduling issues I'm kind of feeling the behavior is NAI at this point? (that said, I kind of want to know where the "if I die, kill bozo or Bo" thing interesting). proabably null?

Tom Bombadil - Despite his activity, I barely remember anything Tom has done and... considering some of the opinions around I think that might be a bad thing? kinda null?

wolfu - wolfu kinda doing therapying, he's offering opinions and rationales for his actions, but I'm not sure what to think

I dunno? am I doing it right? kind of half expect someone to come along and refute everything I said here becauuse all their reads are based in meta I'm not familiar with.
i think in particular the "i don't know about this person but i'm going to trust someone else's read" is a very typical thing for scum to say about their partner. rumi did similarly with regard to her read on bona where she used bozo as an excuse for not scumreading bona

by comparison the read on bo is pretty understated. i think that type of read is less likely for scum to give on their teammates because they're more aware of their actions. look how much she forces herself to write things about bona and demon.
Despite your best efforts this might be the most convincing thing I’ve seen all game

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