M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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bo_sox48
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3001 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:36 pm

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:41 am
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:14 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:50 pm
Bona: is scum
Scum: does not want Bona to die, but if he’s going to wants to be townread as a result

You: townreads Bona
You, later, as Bona is looking likely to die: starts scumreading Bona
You, when it is basically certain Bona will die: LOOK AT ME, HIS DEATH IS BECAUSE OF ME AND ONLY ME, NOT YOU ALL, JUST ME. I DID THIS. WATCH ME HAMMMMMMMEEEEERRRRR!!!!!

Me: wow wolfu that’s kinda weird doncha think
You: no, and you better spend hours explaining it to me because I will not accept this slander
i think this is a very poor exaggeration

when i started to turn against bona the votes were split 2-2

the day really could have gone either way and no one had so much as stated a lean

if i had...actually wanted to save bona i would have done that

it rather makes no sense that the argument is based around me wanting to save bona when i didn't really try to do that, and instead i LISTENED to the arguments being provided and changed my mind

because that is what you are supposed to do as town
Wolfu certainly looks the better of the two in this exchange. There was plenty to be suspicious of between Bona and Wolfu, but I think Bo loses a lot of it in the drama and seems more worried about making the case than the case being right.

Like, if I wanted to make a town Wolfu argument I would center it around his apparent doubt here:
wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:11 am
also, why on earth is bona mafia?
wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:29 am
i looked at demon's posts in the bot and couldn't find much in the way of mentions of bona which doesn't tell me a whole lot

i guess him jumping away from bona day 1 could be something but that's weak
What drama? Wolfu fake hammered and played it up. It is awkward as hell in real time. That’s a case. This isn’t a “beyond all reasonable doubt” courtroom; gut feelings are perfectly valid.

You would be wise to note that I did not, as I said I would, open the day voting Wolfu and have actually gone out of my way to avoid doing so. Spending the night berating someone to try and angle for a NK that would make things more obvious isn’t anti-town. Given said NK instead targeted me while leaving me alive I can only really figure that someone felt they needed to architect a second miskill in addition to wolfu, who was by far the player most strongly pushed after the day ended, to win. As far as I’m concerned wolfu isn’t my favorite suspect and I’m probably not going to vote for him at all.
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3002 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:38 pm

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:14 am
Time to read the game, Sabi Edition:
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
I think Bona is a hit
Is Sabi known for their bus driving?
Sabi explicitly said they don’t like to bus.
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3003 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:40 pm

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:20 am
Also, from listening to other people it sounds like Pyxxy is conf town or very close to it. Damo is town in most people's eyes except Sabi. I'm town though I'm not entirely sure why.
Damo is not necessarily town in my eyes.

Pyxxy countered a scum fakeclaim earlier in the game, which is either a mindless but also genius scum tactic (X to doubt) or a real claim with merit.
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3004 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:43 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:11 pm
Giving Besharam the tiebreaker when one of the options would be self voting is not on my list of things to do today, so I’m either not voting or, if the shoe fits, voting for Besharam.

If Besharam votes for me, yall have given me the tiebreaker when one of my options would be to self vote, which is also not recommended. Someone should be unvoting right now.
I’m prepared to vote Besharam but I’m not going to put a hammer on the table until we’re all content with ending the day.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3005 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:07 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:43 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:11 pm
Giving Besharam the tiebreaker when one of the options would be self voting is not on my list of things to do today, so I’m either not voting or, if the shoe fits, voting for Besharam.

If Besharam votes for me, yall have given me the tiebreaker when one of my options would be to self vote, which is also not recommended. Someone should be unvoting right now.
I’m prepared to vote Besharam but I’m not going to put a hammer on the table until we’re all content with ending the day.
I'm content.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3006 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:55 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:38 pm
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:14 am
Time to read the game, Sabi Edition:
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 am
I think Bona is a hit
Is Sabi known for their bus driving?
Sabi explicitly said they don’t like to bus.
1. it's not a bus if it doesn't go through - and sabi chose NOT to vote bona at a critical juncture on Day 1

2. sabi threw their teammate macdougall under the bus day 2 in the game they linked. they will absolutely bus if they feel it suits their need tactically

3. that actually somewhat explains the push on bona day 2 that they abandoned - with two PRs dead and a 3rd outed, the ranger is completely unnecessary and there fore is the "safest" to bus - you can't bus the dayvig before they shoot and you can't be the first to vote the barbarian. so no credit should be awarded for that halfhearted push on bona.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3007 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:00 pm

i am probably going to be watching football so won't be that active for most of the remaining time. i do want to do due diligence on bo which i haven't gotten around to yet

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3008 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:10 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:09 pm
im a fan of bo in his crusade vs wolfu up to page 33
Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:23 am
bo_sox48 - i really liked his angle on wolfu. similar to pyxxy in that he came in late but put in a ton more effort and a ton more thought in a really nice way.
imo - these are not scum/scum statements. scum don't typically align themselves by agreeing lie this. it's far more likely bona saw bo as a townie he could buddy up to in order to try to push me. the type of scum player who makes these statements about their teammates is pretty rare.

contrast this with how bona handled demon when demon was pushing me - bona felt the need to attack demon and distance from him even thought theyy were both on the same target. that dissonance is part of why i decided bona was mafia. by contrast, bona felt no need to separate his association from bo and that is because in all likelihood bo is town

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3009 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:12 pm

i see sabi still hasn't poted despite totally getting their wim back, hm


demon basically never gives a read on bo or even talks to him, and my inclination is to say that as a teammate he'd try to interact, at least - he went out of his way to say stuff to rumi and at least have opinions on bona and nothing on bo makse me think he was just an afk townie he didnt care to talk about. thats a very thin read of course and i wouldnt bank the game on it but thats my lean

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3010 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:19 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:55 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:38 pm
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:14 am
Time to read the game, Sabi Edition:


Is Sabi known for their bus driving?
Sabi explicitly said they don’t like to bus.
1. it's not a bus if it doesn't go through - and sabi chose NOT to vote bona at a critical juncture on Day 1

2. sabi threw their teammate macdougall under the bus day 2 in the game they linked. they will absolutely bus if they feel it suits their need tactically

3. that actually somewhat explains the push on bona day 2 that they abandoned - with two PRs dead and a 3rd outed, the ranger is completely unnecessary and there fore is the "safest" to bus - you can't bus the dayvig before they shoot and you can't be the first to vote the barbarian. so no credit should be awarded for that halfhearted push on bona.
I'm not taking them at their word that they won't bus lol. But it stuck out to me that the optimal D4 play on Bona was to bus, and they chose to stay off that wagon - and remove themselves from the day, effectively. I generally concur with your points here as well, though I didn't read that other game and am not going to, as if there isn't enough drivel to read through here.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3011 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:03 pm

that's fine you don't have to read it i'm just providing a summary of what happened

and while i think maybe the optimal play was to bus, if you read night 3 i don't think it was at all clear that bona was going to lose vs damo

and it's also a bit of a thing - some players just really don't like to solo carry, i've found. sabi might have just not wanted t o let bona die when they were down to 1 teammate. again drawing from the other game, after they bussed one teammate they hard defended their remaining teammate

as said earlier, the fact that they were so PASSIONATELY defending bona during Night 3 but then weakly surrendered to letting him get DKed on Day 4 after not being present just tracks way more with a mafia member who realizes their teammate dying is inevitable and can't defend them anymore

a town player who was legitimmately townreading bona would have fought harder or at the very least said more words about how they thought damo was scum and bona was flipping town

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3012 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:45 pm

damo666 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:14 am
Is anybody particularly TOWNREADING Sabi?
Part of why I wanted to hear more from Sabi is that they had some well reasoned scum reads on scum at various points. I liked their initial read on Bona and I liked their early challenge of Demon's townread on them.

What I don't know is whether Sabi was bussing and decided to back off for various reasons or is town with good instincts that was led astray for various reasons.

So I wouldn't say that I townread Sabi, but there are answers they could give that may help their case.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3013 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:46 pm

damo666 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:59 am
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:40 am
damo666 wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:49 am
Having relooked at vote history I have to put Bo back on the table.

Wolfu day 1 vote I find hard to fathom as scum.

My thinking is

Bo 40%
Sabi 40%
Wolfu 20%


Celaph I would like to hear your thinking.
Tell me more about why you think Wolfu doesn't vote that way D1.
Two minutes out at Bona 4 wor 4 wolfu switches from wor to rdr thus putting Bona in the lead. Doubtful play as scum. Demon and Rumi are forced to save semi outing themselves. It should be noted bo also switches to wor via rdr although he claims this was to avoid a tie.
Nice catch.
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3014 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:52 pm

Switching to vote ##vote Sabi because ties bad and I'm struggling to understand their motives (yes I know that they're tied up running a diplo tournament; sorry to hear that out of game things are impacting the game).

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3015 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:54 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:21 pm
In all seriousness, I have read your case - the first, second, and 67th time you made it - and given it consideration, which is the only reason I even considerwd that Besharam might be scum after saying with complete certainty earlier in the game that that was not the case. Do you expect me to regurgitate it back to you verbatim? Do you expect me to do my own longwinded analysis to try to build onto it? Some players might do that but I really don’t see a need.
Are there good town Sabi arguments from the early game?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3016 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:21 pm

i am here for the 40 minutes before the deadline

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3017 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:22 pm

celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:54 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:21 pm
In all seriousness, I have read your case - the first, second, and 67th time you made it - and given it consideration, which is the only reason I even considerwd that Besharam might be scum after saying with complete certainty earlier in the game that that was not the case. Do you expect me to regurgitate it back to you verbatim? Do you expect me to do my own longwinded analysis to try to build onto it? Some players might do that but I really don’t see a need.
Are there good town Sabi arguments from the early game?
If you have the sanity in you to read Rumi's mental breakdown, RHK's mind bogglingly stupid decision to go 1-for-1 with a VT, and Sabi's emotional outburst surrounding those events yes. D2 and D3.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3018 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:23 pm

I have once again been left a free hammer. Love it.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3019 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:25 pm

wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:21 pm
i am here for the 40 minutes before the deadline
I'll be in and out but here for EOD.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3020 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:26 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:21 pm
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:22 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm
Distant 2nd. Besharam - I can see the case, but it needs more substance and needs to go beyond Bona. I can see Besharam potentially trying to lurk as they realize they're the deep threat but they are struggling with it.
again, i have made arguments beyond how sabi handled bona - i thought sabi's lengthy argument with demon that went nowhere was pointless and sabi did not really try to read demon or solve him at all as well. i think bona and demon attacking me is likely because i started being vocally suspicious of sabi. i thik sabi's play itself has been limp and not shown solving intent but has rather involved performatively distancing from when town was making incorrect votes.

i have explained this all in painstaking detail


i get the feeling that because i am unfamiliar to the regulars here, my cases are being glossed over or dismissed out of pocket rather than being given actual consideration. it is like my words do not really have value because people do not know me. i find it very aggravating to deal with.
Your cases are being glossed over because everyone glosses over everyone’s cases. This game is full of inactivity and had fewer players than normal and is easily still breaking 150 pages. Aint nobody got time for 10 paragraph long cases. You gotta give us the college style thesis statement or give your case the Buzzfeed YOU WON’T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT treatment to keep us into it.

In all seriousness, I have read your case - the first, second, and 67th time you made it - and given it consideration, which is the only reason I even considerwd that Besharam might be scum after saying with complete certainty earlier in the game that that was not the case. Do you expect me to regurgitate it back to you verbatim? Do you expect me to do my own longwinded analysis to try to build onto it? Some players might do that but I really don’t see a need.
cool it's good to know that treating other players really rudely is the norm i guess?

some simple feedback on the basis of i agree with the points you are making or i disagree with the points you are making would be nice but atp since you have openly admitted to not wanting to read i don't expect that basic level of feedback

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