M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[damo666]

Like I'm not just saying "hey guys we should flip TFB cause it would be funny lol"

Now, we *should* flip Jamie because it would be funny

*roars*

Is there a lion here?

I didn't think I stepped into a fort...

You fort you hadn't?

[damo666]

Has Bob addressed the thing last night where he didn't know how many scum were in the game?

He's only posted once today I notice.

Not realy. He awarded me a gold star for pointing out 5 - 3 = 2.

[Jamiet99uk]

Durga and Celaph both voted Bob D1 and no confirmed town were on that wagon.

Durga and Celaph both voted TFB D2 and only one confirmed town was on that wagon.

Celaph also voted for Donny during D1.
Celaph only voted for TFB during D2.

Durga also voted for TFB, Deathllama, Celaph, and Donny during D1.
Durga also voted for Celaph, DemonRHK, TFB and me during D2.
Durga did not vote at all D3.

[Jamiet99uk]

Durga bussed Celaph quite a lot.

Has that been discussed in the context of who else was on Celaph at those times?

[Donny Dude]

I am not the best fan of flipping someone for pure info unless it provides or could provide crucial information that affects gamestate a lot.

[Chaqa]

I am not the best fan of flipping someone for pure info unless it provides or could provide crucial information that affects gamestate a lot.

This is literally the reason to do an info flip on TFB.

[Jamiet99uk]

Durga's D1 vote for Celaph made Celaph the lead wagon for a short time.

Other people on Celaph at the same time as Durga were Fluminator, DemonRHK and BusinessClamp.


Durga's D2 vote for Celaph again made Celaph the lead wagon for a short time.

Other people on Celaph at the same time as Durga were Bob, Ghug, and Hellenic Riot.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I've already said the reason why - it gives us info about the Day 2 wagons and specifically if celaph was being bussed to protect TFB.

If that's true, by limiting our options to players like HR, Goldie, Maniac, Vecna, etc. we may be allowing 2-3 scum to go completely under the radar. I don't have a list of players on the celaph wagon I think are bussers necessarily, and that's the speculation I don't really feel like doing, as it's a black hole of wasted time and effort if we aren't gonna flip TFB.

I didn't think I had to explicitly spell all this out for you guys

Great and if you flip me and I am scum what does it tell you about the wagons? If I am town what does it tell you? If you're going to make these arguments you need to be able to answer those questions now otherwise you can't justify the flip.

Why are you being so dense?

If you flip scum it tells me that scum were bussing celaph to protect you, meaning scum is probably on your wagon.

If you're town it confirms scum is probably in the pool of players we're looking at.

I think you're town, so I'm fine just assumign the latter if it comes down to it, but I know I've bussed teammates before to gain towncred so I'm wary of it having happened here.

No what I'm trying to do is get you to come out and say which reads hinge on me being town or scum and why. You seem very interested in making this flip happen but very disinterested in speculating as to what it means and I want to know not just why you're disinterested, but also how your read of the game changes based on how I flip.


I'm not trying to argue with you over whether I'm town or scum. That's something I'm happy to re-litigate in another post.

What I'm trying to get here is given this info flip you want to run , what does it mean for PARTICULAR READS on PARTICULAR PLAYERS if the experiment ends either of two ways in your mind beyond the sophomoric "if you're scum, scum bussed celaph to protect you" which anyone could infer.

We know at least 2 of the 5 mafia were on me. Do you think 3 bussed celaph to save scum!me there? Phrased another way, if we assume I'm scum in this hypothetical, do you think it was a 2-1 split of non-celaph non-me scum on celaph? A 2-1 split voting for me that got overpowered by a town rush? A 3-0 split on me (can't be a 3-0 the other way because Durga voted for me and is known scum)?

If we assume there is scum on celaph's wagon and they bussed him to save me, who do you think they are and why? These are all important questions to know and have answers to written down somewhere before an info flip occurs.

[Jamiet99uk]

Durga appeared perfectly confident bussing Celaph into the lead, mid-phase on both days. And I've heard people claim that Durga doesn't bus.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Oh and one other question I forgot. If I am town, how many scum do you think bussed celaph?

[Chaqa]

Great and if you flip me and I am scum what does it tell you about the wagons? If I am town what does it tell you? If you're going to make these arguments you need to be able to answer those questions now otherwise you can't justify the flip.

Why are you being so dense?

If you flip scum it tells me that scum were bussing celaph to protect you, meaning scum is probably on your wagon.

If you're town it confirms scum is probably in the pool of players we're looking at.

I think you're town, so I'm fine just assumign the latter if it comes down to it, but I know I've bussed teammates before to gain towncred so I'm wary of it having happened here.

No what I'm trying to do is get you to come out and say which reads hinge on me being town or scum and why. You seem very interested in making this flip happen but very disinterested in speculating as to what it means and I want to know not just why you're disinterested, but also how your read of the game changes based on how I flip.


I'm not trying to argue with you over whether I'm town or scum. That's something I'm happy to re-litigate in another post.

What I'm trying to get here is given this info flip you want to run , what does it mean for PARTICULAR READS on PARTICULAR PLAYERS if the experiment ends either of two ways in your mind beyond the sophomoric "if you're scum, scum bussed celaph to protect you" which anyone could infer.

We know at least 2 of the 5 mafia were on me. Do you think 3 bussed celaph to save scum!me there? Phrased another way, if we assume I'm scum in this hypothetical, do you think it was a 2-1 split of non-celaph non-me scum on celaph? A 2-1 split voting for me that got overpowered by a town rush? A 3-0 split on me (can't be a 3-0 the other way because Durga voted for me and is known scum)?

If we assume there is scum on celaph's wagon and they bussed him to save me, who do you think they are and why? These are all important questions to know and have answers to written down somewhere before an info flip occurs.

I know I'm town - as was Bozo.

Jamie has been screaming town for all game.

Vecna is a possibility.

I don't think it's Donny or RHK based off previous wagons and interactions.

So I suppose it comes down to Vecna, ghug, rivera as possible bussers

[Chaqa]

Oh and one other question I forgot. If I am town, how many scum do you think bussed celaph?

0-1

If there'a any scum on celaph, it's Vecna.

[Chaqa]

I suppose the takeaway here is that we should probably just vote Vecna.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Why are you being so dense?

If you flip scum it tells me that scum were bussing celaph to protect you, meaning scum is probably on your wagon.

If you're town it confirms scum is probably in the pool of players we're looking at.

I think you're town, so I'm fine just assumign the latter if it comes down to it, but I know I've bussed teammates before to gain towncred so I'm wary of it having happened here.

No what I'm trying to do is get you to come out and say which reads hinge on me being town or scum and why. You seem very interested in making this flip happen but very disinterested in speculating as to what it means and I want to know not just why you're disinterested, but also how your read of the game changes based on how I flip.


I'm not trying to argue with you over whether I'm town or scum. That's something I'm happy to re-litigate in another post.

What I'm trying to get here is given this info flip you want to run , what does it mean for PARTICULAR READS on PARTICULAR PLAYERS if the experiment ends either of two ways in your mind beyond the sophomoric "if you're scum, scum bussed celaph to protect you" which anyone could infer.

We know at least 2 of the 5 mafia were on me. Do you think 3 bussed celaph to save scum!me there? Phrased another way, if we assume I'm scum in this hypothetical, do you think it was a 2-1 split of non-celaph non-me scum on celaph? A 2-1 split voting for me that got overpowered by a town rush? A 3-0 split on me (can't be a 3-0 the other way because Durga voted for me and is known scum)?

If we assume there is scum on celaph's wagon and they bussed him to save me, who do you think they are and why? These are all important questions to know and have answers to written down somewhere before an info flip occurs.

I know I'm town - as was Bozo.

Jamie has been screaming town for all game.

Vecna is a possibility.

I don't think it's Donny or RHK based off previous wagons and interactions.

So I suppose it comes down to Vecna, ghug, rivera as possible bussers

Excellent. And if I'm town do you believe any of those three would be scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

I suppose the takeaway here is that we should probably just vote Vecna.

Yes.

[Donny Dude]

I am not the best fan of flipping someone for pure info unless it provides or could provide crucial information that affects gamestate a lot.

This is literally the reason to do an info flip on TFB.

Chaqa
1-10 scale how much information do you feel we get from a tfb flip versus not?

[Chaqa]

I am not the best fan of flipping someone for pure info unless it provides or could provide crucial information that affects gamestate a lot.

This is literally the reason to do an info flip on TFB.

Chaqa
1-10 scale how much information do you feel we get from a tfb flip versus not?

See above

[TheFlyingBoat]

I suppose the takeaway here is that we should probably just vote Vecna.

And that was the thrust of what I was trying to get at. There are players that are still alive that look bad whether I'm town or scum and there are players that look good regardless of my status as well; there are plenty of reads that do not change based on my flip. Given that's the case, if you view me as town, we should be flipping scum targets like Vecna, HR, and RDR before we start worrying about the one or two people that hinge on my status as that will likely resolve itself as the game goes on and save us a miskill in the process.

[Chaqa]

I suppose the takeaway here is that we should probably just vote Vecna.

And that was the thrust of what I was trying to get at. There are players that are still alive that look bad whether I'm town or scum and there are players that look good regardless of my status as well; there are plenty of reads that do not change based on my flip. Given that's the case, if you view me as town, we should be flipping scum targets like Vecna, HR, and RDR before we start worrying about the one or two people that hinge on my status as that will likely resolve itself as the game goes on and save us a miskill in the process.

This makes sense to me.

##Vote Vecna

Best to start here, since he admittedly is not reading.

Add that to the weird Fox stuff from early game, seems like he's the best DK for today.

##END

No need to spend another 24 hours overthinking it

[Chaqa]

To clarify, Vecna is not an asset to town since he is not reading or keeping up