Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

I really feel I should death-tunnel Bona over this nonsense, but im just gonna ignore that silly impulse

[bozotheclown]

bozo's apparently blindness causes him to remain on my 'do not let pitch, due to likely drug use' list.

Blind to what, Jamie's case against kgray? I understand his case, but I can also see a town motivation for the things he finds suspicious.

What do you think kgray's scum motivation was for getting damo DKed?

Blind to the suspicious nature of her actions/words. It does not seem to me that you are just 'also' seeing a town motivation. But that you do not see the scum motivation.

Am I missing something? Does scum need additional "Scum Motivation" for a miss day kill? Would she need anything else but that?

I don't think scum usually go out of their way to lead a DK unless they have a reason to get rid of that player. It is possible kgray didn't expect damo's wagon to take off, though.

[kgray]

Having said that, im pretty sure Kgray is town. I dont think she can fake this level of gentle suspicion towards me in such a natural way.

You seem to be deflecting a little here. I really want you to comment on the fact that Kgray did not question Damo, while pushing a Damo wagon she started for no particularly clear reason.

So none of this is actually true. Do I have to explain why?

[Bonatogether]

I really feel I should death-tunnel Bona over this nonsense, but im just gonna ignore that silly impulse

yay

[kgray]

I agree, and I want to flip Durga, but right now, don't you think it's interesting / weird, having seen Kgray play several times before, how she didn't question Damo while yelling for people to join his wagon?

Sort of invalidates my earlier question, but im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga and didnt want to see them as competing wagons.

You are saying that Town Kgray would push a Damo wagon, when she had no strong reason for suspecting Damo, just because she's matey with Durga and/or Bozo outside of the game and wants to keep them around regardless of their alignment?

Really?

This is the first time (since my very first game) that the metric I use to read damo has lead me to the wrong conclusion. My vote for him wasn't based on as little as you are saying it was.

If I very strongly scumread Durga or bozo I'd vote for them regardless of the fact that I like playing with them, but I didn't scumread them as strongly as I scumread you or damo anyway. And yeah, my personal feelings about people does affect who I want to kill. I know it shouldn't, but I'm not a robot. Sue me.

[Vecna]

@Bozotheclown
@Vecna

What do you think about my observations on Kgray, and specifically the way she pushed the Damo wagon without (a) having a good reason for it, and (b) without asking him any questions?

I'd really like your thoughts, and if possible I'd like you to specifically address both (a) and (b).

Thank you in advance.

This question becomes a lot easier to answer after we see Durga's flip imo. Regardless, I dont see why she'd focus on damo while there was a much easier Bozo wagon there.

Wouldn't the obvious answer be that bozo's my teammate?

It would be pretty funny if you had white-knighted Durga, and then couldnt vote her to save your teammate Bozo, and then had to start a new wagon on Damo.

[kgray]

These are really, really bad responses from Vecna and my townread on him is fading.

Vecna / Kgray scumteam?

Oh man, I wish.

[Durga]

These are really, really bad responses from Vecna and my townread on him is fading.

Vecna / Kgray scumteam?

Oh man, I wish.

I would probably cry

[Vecna]

I really feel I should death-tunnel Bona over this nonsense, but im just gonna ignore that silly impulse

yay

Feel free to put into words what you were actually trying to say though. I still have no clue

[Bonatogether]

I really feel I should death-tunnel Bona over this nonsense, but im just gonna ignore that silly impulse

yay

Feel free to put into words what you were actually trying to say though. I still have no clue

I've never seen Jamie even attempt to try to mimic this supposed town meta of his, so I think your claim that no one would try to miskill Jamie is bunk

[Vecna]

These are really, really bad responses from Vecna and my townread on him is fading.

Vecna / Kgray scumteam?

Oh man, I wish.

I would probably cry

Can you like, obv-town?

I dont like looking silly for saving people that turn out to be scum.

pretty please?

[bozotheclown]

It is interesting that all 5 Jamie voters ended up voting for damo and never voted for Durga, but they can't all be scum. However, we know at least one is scum, and whoever that is avoided the Durga wagon. Bonatogether, celaph, and Vecna also voted for me between voting for Jamie and damo when I was a counter wagon to Durga.

It looks like there may have been an attempt to save Durga, so finding out Durga's alignment gives us the most information about D1.

##VOTE Durga

Well, Vecna and I both pretty blatantly saved her.

Yes, I suppose I should have said Durga was saved from the DK, and it seems there may have been a scum motivation for doing so, since several players seemed OK with any wagon except Durga.

[Jamiet99uk]

Sort of invalidates my earlier question, but im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga and didnt want to see them as competing wagons.

You are saying that Town Kgray would push a Damo wagon, when she had no strong reason for suspecting Damo, just because she's matey with Durga and/or Bozo outside of the game and wants to keep them around regardless of their alignment?

Really?

This is the first time (since my very first game) that the metric I use to read damo has lead me to the wrong conclusion. My vote for him wasn't based on as little as you are saying it was.

If I very strongly scumread Durga or bozo I'd vote for them regardless of the fact that I like playing with them, but I didn't scumread them as strongly as I scumread you or damo anyway. And yeah, my personal feelings about people does affect who I want to kill. I know it shouldn't, but I'm not a robot. Sue me.

You were the person who initially said you didn't have a strong reason for scumreading Damo. Did you not say that?

I don't have a great reason to scumread him to be fair.

Oh, yes you did.

[kgray]

CASE ON KGRAY - A SUMMARY:

Kgray voted Damo out of nowhere, with no case, no explanation, nothing.

When Dargorygel asked Kgray about Damo's plan for the Question Asker, Kgray said this was NAI.

When asked why she was voting for Damo, Kgray said she didn't have a good explanation.

When pressed further, Kgray said Damo "seemed to be lying low", and this was the best reason she could offer.

Later, Kgray said to Durga that Damo was scummy for voting her.

As EoD approached, Kgray gave the Damo wagon another push by indicating she didn't want to vote for Bozo (but gave no other reason for Damo to be scum).

Kgray then repeated the fact that she didn't like Damo's vote for Durga.

During EoD Kgray repeatedly advocated for Damo votes. She practically begged Brainbomb to vote for him. And yet, all this time, she presented no strong reason for a Damo scumread, and Kgray didn't ask Damo a single meaningful question.

All of this is totally out of character for the sharp, questioning, inquisitive Town Kgray I've seen before.

SCUM

Why are you not questioning other people's naked votes?

How were you not concerned about damo's vote of Durga and the fact that he left it here all day without explaining that he actually scumread her? This is really similar to what scum!damo did with xorxes in M1011 and it was a perfectly valid reason to scumread him.

Damo laying low is normally scum!damo.

I did ask damo questions.

I wanted brain to vote damo because I didn't want Durga to die.

So obviously I was wrong about damo and I'm not at all convinced Durga is town, but you are blowing this way out of proportion.

[Jamiet99uk]

CASE ON KGRAY - A SUMMARY:

<various great points>

So obviously I was wrong about damo and I'm not at all convinced Durga is town, but you are blowing this way out of proportion.

Would you vote Durga today?

Do you agree that we should only vote in the pool of 5 people revealed as potential scum by Brainbomb's question?

[Durga]

Oh man, I wish.

I would probably cry

Can you like, obv-town?

I dont like looking silly for saving people that turn out to be scum.

pretty please?

What are you paranoid about? Why did you "save" me if you didn't feel I was town?

[Vecna]

yay

Feel free to put into words what you were actually trying to say though. I still have no clue

I've never seen Jamie even attempt to try to mimic this supposed town meta of his, so I think your claim that no one would try to miskill Jamie is bunk

Why are you trying to make these arguments when you have never played with town jamiet before?

Trying to mimic his town gimmicks is literally what he does. He even copied his bloody 10 posts per phase gimmick in your first game here iirc.

Even Jamiet knows that I always try to piss him off on purpose on D1 to determine his alignment.

[Durga]

It is interesting that all 5 Jamie voters ended up voting for damo and never voted for Durga, but they can't all be scum. However, we know at least one is scum, and whoever that is avoided the Durga wagon. Bonatogether, celaph, and Vecna also voted for me between voting for Jamie and damo when I was a counter wagon to Durga.

It looks like there may have been an attempt to save Durga, so finding out Durga's alignment gives us the most information about D1.

##VOTE Durga

Well, Vecna and I both pretty blatantly saved her.

Yes, I suppose I should have said Durga was saved from the DK, and it seems there may have been a scum motivation for doing so, since several players seemed OK with any wagon except Durga.

Which players?

[kgray]

@Bozotheclown
@Vecna

What do you think about my observations on Kgray, and specifically the way she pushed the Damo wagon without (a) having a good reason for it, and (b) without asking him any questions?

I'd really like your thoughts, and if possible I'd like you to specifically address both (a) and (b).

Thank you in advance.

kgray's D1 voting looks suspicious, but she did give reasons for voting for damo, and although she said herself they were not strong reasons, I do not think they were unreasonable for D1. kgray did ask damo some questions near EOD when damo was defending himself.

Her reasons were "he seems to be lying low" and "he is voting for Durga". Super weak stuff.

The only question she asked him was why he was voting for Durga.

This is bullshit. I did not scumread damo because he voted for Durga. I scumread him because he voted for Durga as a joke because her name anagrams to "a drug" and then kept it there all day without explaining that he actually scumread her.

[kgray]

I find Jaimei... er... jeimai... er.. .Jamie's case compelling.
##VOTE KGRAY

Further, of the five
Kgray/Durga
Vecna
Bonatogether
Celeph

the players who would do the most potential damage to town's reasoning as hiding scum:
Kgray
Vecna
Bona
Celaph
Durga

I'm quite flattered you think I'd be more dangerous as scum than Venca would be. But I'm not scum, and Jamie's case is full of holes and lies.