M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[damo666]

damo why would you want a tie?

because no death is better than a towndeath?

How is no information good for us?

I'd rather the player than the data (assuming TvT). What info do you glean from brain's death?

[damo666]

damo why would you want a tie?

because no death is better than a towndeath?

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

[ghug]

because no death is better than a towndeath?

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

At KYLO maybe.

I believe you genuinely believe this, but it's terrible.

[ghug]

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

At KYLO maybe.

I believe you genuinely believe this, but it's terrible.

Or MYLO rather.

[kgray]

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

At KYLO maybe.

I believe you genuinely believe this, but it's terrible.

Do you believe he believes this strongly enough to not vote for the counterwagon to his strongest townread?

[e.m.c^42]

Oddly enough the indecision of my sort makes me give Damo town points, so he is kind of back to null now.

[damo666]

kgray, ghug, durga, Jamie and HB have all voted to kill BOTH town ND and town brain. HB's brain vote is excusable due to self-preservation but as for the other four....they can't all be town can they?

Tomorrow I think we should contain our votes to these 4 plus Maniac.

[worcej]

@worcej, tell me why I look worse now?

Brain was not scum. If he had flipped scum, I'd be less inclined to think you're partners with him, exposing yourself as much as you might've.

I consider you to be a calculating player in general and from what I've witnessed from your prior scum games, you make moves with intent. I believe scum!kgray intended on not ending on teacon and had easy outs to do that.

I also disagree with the notion that you wouldn't blatantly make that move off him as scum - it was D1 and teacon was in trouble, but not drowning. The Vig shot of him was unexpected and believing teacon was destined to be daykilled is foolish. In a nutshell, the only way this is exposure for you is because he was vig killed this early and recent to your moves off him.

K well I never used the excuse that I wouldn't blatantly move off him as scum, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. All I said about that is that if you're going to talk about me leaving teacon's wagon you at least have to acknowledge that I helped start it.

But whatever, I refuse to waste my time talking about my D1 votes anymore.

The last bit about blatantly moving is not your defense, it is what others have said to defend you. I should've articulated that.

And okay, you started it, but look at last game how you and Chaqa faked a whole bunch of reads on each other and voted each other constantly. To me, you look worse for jumping off it since you started it.

And okay, don't discuss your D1 anymore, but it's going to keep coming up as the VCA gets more actual data from more flips.

[worcej]

kgray, ghug, durga, Jamie and HB have all voted to kill BOTH town ND and town brain. HB's brain vote is excusable due to self-preservation but as for the other four....they can't all be town can they?

Tomorrow I think we should contain our votes to these 4 plus Maniac.

kgray, ghug, Jamie, Durga, HB in order of scum to town imo.

[worcej]

damo why would you want a tie?

because no death is better than a towndeath?

Eh... a town flip is still information regardless.

But this isn't your first time thinking this if I recall prior games.

[worcej]

because no death is better than a towndeath?

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

ghug's style and responses to posts have been incredibly scummy, I'd totally be willing to send him to the execution block tomorrow.

[worcej]

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

At KYLO maybe.

I believe you genuinely believe this, but it's terrible.

Do you believe he believes this strongly enough to not vote for the counterwagon to his strongest townread?

You didn't ask me, but I do believe damo will not just vote someone he actually towns.

[Hamilton Brian]

@Hamilton, what's your read on damo?

Extremely null. My null read was based on the D1 stuff and that's inconclusive.

What do you think about him declaring you town but not helping save you?

Now that I'm back and had some time with it...it doesn't make sense. I have to put me in that exact situation and I draw this conclusion. "I'm going to declare townread, but I personally am not convinced. I, instead, will hope to pull votes off of them, and on to someone else." So why do that?

Bear with the thinking. It's the motivation that I'm concerned about. Would town do that? Town would probably move to that competing wagon. Why would town not move? Not really convinced.

Scum motivated? They know I'm town. Know Brainbomb was town. Let the TvT play out?

[ghug]

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

At KYLO maybe.

I believe you genuinely believe this, but it's terrible.

Do you believe he believes this strongly enough to not vote for the counterwagon to his strongest townread?

No

[Hamilton Brian]

And then HB suddenly producing that weird attack on me, which did not feel like his own style at all.

I'm not sure why you think it's weird; I just figure you're going to shade me, I'm going to throw it back.

[ghug]

kgray, ghug, durga, Jamie and HB have all voted to kill BOTH town ND and town brain. HB's brain vote is excusable due to self-preservation but as for the other four....they can't all be town can they?

Tomorrow I think we should contain our votes to these 4 plus Maniac.

Town damo doesn't do rhetoric

[ghug]

We should no kill every day.

You're being manipulative. Wanting a tie when you believe it to be TvT is completely different to a general no kill policy.

ghug's style and responses to posts have been incredibly scummy, I'd totally be willing to send him to the execution block tomorrow.

How?

[Vecna]

And then HB suddenly producing that weird attack on me, which did not feel like his own style at all.

I'm not sure why you think it's weird; I just figure you're going to shade me, I'm going to throw it back.

Yeah when reading it a second time it wasnt that weird at all

[Bonatogether]

Looking at peterbot:

T-45:12: ghug opens with a brain vote left on the grounds that brain townread teacon (reasonable to say scum. reasonable to vote on it? prob not, imo)
T-17:00: ghug switchs off to vote for aaro because kgray indicates that there would be more support for an aaro vote (ghug really wants someone voted who wasn't on the major wagons, huh)

T-3:43: kgray says that she's surprised that brain's not a wagon (the immediate origin of the speedwagon)
T-3:42: ghug responds with "Wanna be the change?"
T-3:42: kgray votes brain from damo, who had 2 other votes at this time

At this point in time, HB had 5 votes, kgray had 4, and bozo had 4. Bozo's wagon was about to fall apart, and kgray's wagon was not getting traction. Hamilton's wagon wasn't going to hit 6 votes until within an hour of EoD. There was no indication that anyone outside those three were going to get above 4 votes.

T-3:41: ghug votes brain from worcej, who had no other votes at this time

T-0:58: ghug switches over to yoyo from brain.
T-0:57: kgray votes for balki, moving from brain

***Brain has no votes with under an hour left***

T-0:43: ghug switches from maniac to brain, for the reason that if it comes down to it, it's obvious which of the HB/kgray/balki (6/4/4 at the time) trio he'd choose, but he prefered to get brain out. (He hadn't been voting any of the major wagons for at least 30 hours. wack)

T-0:39: Jamie finally hops off the bozo wagon, which had been hemorrhaging voters for hours by this point.

HB hits 9 votes at T-0:32, incidentally on brain's vote

T-0:30: HR says that the temptation to speedwagon Brain is increasing. (I think this is a townie statement, especially since it happened. If he was scum, he wouldn't want to draw attention to the fact that he thought Brain was going to get screwed)
T-0:30: Flum says that if HB acts more town, people can switch over to Brain
T-0:28: Vecna has a weird comment that I can't make heads or tails of, mostly due to repeated "this"s that apparently have different meanings.

T-0:24: HR votes brain, from Balki, for the above reasons
T-0:24: brain says that Flum and HB are scum
T-0:23: kgray votes brain because "lmao"

T-0:22: brain says he wasn't sure how to read kgray, so he flipped a coin and it came up scum. Why the fuck did he do this? It's so weird.
T-0:22: HB says that brain looks a little more sus to him, but he can't read him
T-0:22: ghug promises to flum that if he votes brain, he'll "consider helping" Flum vote HB tomorrow

T-0:20: Durga calls the HB wagon "ridiculous" and votes brain, coming from Maniac

With 20 minutes on the clock, HB still has 9 votes, brain has 4, and Maniac and kgray are both at 3.

T-0:19: Durga quotes HR's statement that emc doesn't care about votes that matter and jumped on a 1-vote wagon (brain). (Wtf? Durga voted brain just a minute ago. I scumread Durga for this)

T-0:18: Flum asks HB to post some of the stuff from his journal
T-0:15: Flum says that if HB does it, he'll vote brain (lowkey scum; see my maniac reasons)

T-0:15: brain posts reads. He scumread "emc, maniac, bozo, kgray, flum, vash, bona and maybe hb" and put "damo, balki, jamie, chaqa" as possible town

T-0:14: Maniac says that if HB votes brain he'll follow (scummier than a swamp. I'm willing to bet anything that the coordinator was popping off in the QT that they needed to nail brain, and this is the outcome. Notably, brain scumread him just a minute before)

T-0:13: Kgray prods Vecna to vote brain (I call this scum. Yes, I townread them earlier, but now there's a *concerted effort* by kgray and ghug to get brain votes with less than 15 minutes left on the clock. Scum)
T-0:13: HB posts his reads. Illegible.
T-0:13: brain says that HB is afraid to vote him, because then he'd get towncleared.
T-0:13: ghug tells flum to move to brain "to make it competitive" (flum was already committed to moving to brain, so I don't see why ghug makes this post. kind of scum)

T-0:12: Flum votes brain. Brain has now hit 5 voters.
T-0:12: brainbomb hints that he's about to claim PR, then immediately drops it.

T-0:11: HR says that if brain self votes, he won't vote him tomorrow (imo, it's a joke. NAI)
T-0:11: Jamie votes brain even though no one has asked him and he has not asked anyone. (kinda scum. i think coordinator is still ranting in QT at this point)

T-0:10: "Good enough - let's do Brain" - flum, who already voted for brain (scum)
T-0:10: "Time to make it interesting ##vote brain" - Vecna, who no one asked (see my reasons for jamie) THIS IS THE TIEING VOTE.

T-0:10: brain says that we need to read dead reads. Please, for god's sake, reread his stuff.

T-0:09: ghug again pushes for a vote on brain (scummier than a sewage pipe)
T-0:09: Aaro says he thinks HB is scummier, but he thinks that brain's voters are townier than the ones on HB. (Funky. @aaro, comments? elaboration?)
T-0:09: HB finally votes brain, putting brain into the lead. (i lean scum on this, but idk)
T-0:09: HR says that if HB doesn't vote brain, he's up tomorrow. (idk what to make of this)

T-0:08: Maniac votes brain without explanation.

T-0:06: HR implies that Maniac's vote is a bus to look good when brain turns scum

T-0:05: celaph says that the people voting brain look townier than the ones voting HB (same line that aaro said. possibly both scum? idk. i dislike celaph on principle)

T-0:04: worcej calls it as TvT. Damo agrees at T-0:02. Both have been voting kgray for hours (townread both of them)
T-0:04: Durga (apparently seriously) says that it's not too late to get Maniac. It's 9-brain, 7-hamilton. What a joke.

T-0:03: I have gotten back from my walk and am 11 pages behind. I quote a thing of bb's. (obv town. most townie person to walk the earth. )

T-0:01: brain posts more reads. This is the most important post of the day imo. He know's he screwed, and therefore has no inhibitions of currying favor to avoid being voted at this point. Everyone should reread this post.
T-0:01: ghug says that the push was town motivated. (he was one of the main pushers, so this statement reads as scum to me)

T-0:00 9-8, brainbomb is revealed as town.

TL;DR:
I think there was a push by scum to get him voted off.

* I name ghug, kgray, and flum as scum here, with a coordinator doing his thing in QT. Vecna, HR, and Durga also do not come out of this looking good. I dislike aaro and celaph using very similar reasoning right after each other.

* I like worcej, damo slightly less. They stayed out and correctly townread brain.

[celaph]

@celaph: you keep saying that you read me as scum. I'm curious about hearing your reasoning for that?

A cursory scan of my own messages for mentions of you reveals I've mentioned you 7 times. The two times where I've been critical of you both come recently: Once page 194 where I expressed displeasure with your reads not including much analysis of conversations and once on page 207 where I included you in a list of voters I didn't feel great about you on the HB wagon. I'm curious why you perceive that I "keep saying that I read you as scum."