Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[dargorygel]

So who is actually scumreading Flavius out of all the people pressuring and suspecting him? I see no votes.

Me.

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

[dargorygel]

wtf there is ten pages already? Jesus Christ. Seriously, what. the. fuck.

Are you implying you are going to read the game so far, ND?

[teacon7]

I haven't read M1007. Making posts about last game's outcome is anti-town though. If it was a joke, it's more understandable, but the joke was clearly lost on me, and the fact that you moved to MF right afterwards makes it look like more of a cover to me than a joke.

I can respect that.
fwiw, this is me from the post-game of m1007:

@emc - theirs is a good plan. I'll probably policy vote you until you've voted.

Your recent questioning and aggression is a much better look than your first post, but that first post was scummy to me. I still need to dig into your questions more and see what your motivation/solving is there.

Enjoy.

My first couple games I played, I had no meta, and frankly I was awful at the game. When I came back to the site, again I had almost no meta because the only familiar face was ghug. I actually did really well when not using meta. After a couple games on the site, I operated heavily on meta and did not play well. Going to MU, there is no meta to draw from there, and I actually think that helped me out a lot since I could look more at pure motivations of players rather than the actions they took compared to actions in previous games. Good players will use their meta to their advantage, so using meta is playing right into that.

So I have had a recent shift in opinion on meta, to use it more lightly and look more at people's motivations than their actions. It is still useful in some scenarios, and is unavoidable to unconsciously include in your judgement, but I would say here on webDip we use meta a little too much.

That was a... long way to answer, but I appreciate it. fwiw really good players are quite capable of faking it, but that's not the majority of us. Pure motivation is better of course, but it's really about how much to weight "acting strange" or when getting impressions. I don't think anyone is perfect enough that meta is completely NAI.

[TrPrado]

##UNVOTE

[Carl Tuckerson]

So who is actually scumreading Flavius out of all the people pressuring and suspecting him? I see no votes.

Me.

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

While that’s somewhat true, I think a mafia who is winging it trying not to get caught and borrowing a townie’s list criteria wouldn’t name seven different mafia. Typically mafia have too few scumreads not too many.
The copying bit is still a good point.

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.

[dargorygel]

##UNVOTE

Why? (I hate unvotes...)

[teacon7]

fwiw, I think a joke phase is really important, for lots of reasons, not least of which is town morale.
@Prado - Please define "productive start to the game" ...what would you like to see?

I think being funny and witty to start the game CAN be good. Hell, look at my vote against Foxy. However, I think there's a reasonably strong difference between telling jokes to break a silence and get conversation started as opposed to doing the same in a way the derails existing conversation.

So @prado - what would you like to see instead? You're comfortable instantly getting at each other's throats?

[dargorygel]

Me.

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

While that’s somewhat true, I think a mafia who is winging it trying not to get caught and borrowing a townie’s list criteria wouldn’t name seven different mafia. Typically mafia have too few scumreads not too many.
The copying bit is still a good point.

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.

I thought about that, too, Carl... but casting so much shade might be just the ticket for a scum trying to hide in shadows...

[TrPrado]

##UNVOTE

Why? (I hate unvotes...)

To make your life more interesting

[dargorygel]

##UNVOTE

Why? (I hate unvotes...)

To make your life more interesting

lol

[Balki Bartokomous]

Squigs-Town
Foxcastle-Town
Balki-Mafia
TrPardo-Mafia
Connor-Town
Percy-Mafia
darg-Town
Carl Tuckerson-Mafia
et-Mafia
Moscow-Mafia
Nepthys-Mafia

Can we talk about this more? This is astonishing.

Flavius, talk more about this please. How did this post come to be? Why did you do it? How did you do it?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.

I'm not following this. What methodology exactly did Flavius copy?

[TrPrado]

So @prado - what would you like to see instead? You're comfortable instantly getting at each other's throats?

My answer to that is at the heart of my original answer. Behaving with real meaning. A very specific meaning. The joke phase serves a very specific purpose and extending it once it's passed is very much not compliant with that meaning.

[teacon7]

@teacon... yes, I read the mini game... why? Don't you remember my fascinating and insightful comments in the godthread?

You read all of it?
I'mma ask you questions about players from that game later on. But not now, as I should probably finish out and give everyone else a chance to chat.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Same question for Darg. What methodology was Flavius copying exactly?

[teacon7]

So @prado - what would you like to see instead? You're comfortable instantly getting at each other's throats?

My answer to that is at the heart of my original answer. Behaving with real meaning. A very specific meaning. The joke phase serves a very specific purpose and extending it once it's passed is very much not compliant with that meaning.

We may have different ideas of how long a joke phase lasts. If I just got here, whether prado likes it or not, I'm still in a joke phase. Discuss.

Fwiw, I think there's more to it than just morale. Jokes, whether they're behaving with "real meaning" or not, have a tendency to generate information. Like someone :ahem: trying to towntell by pooh-poohing joke phases because he's so anxious to look solvey....

How do you think the game gets started without any information?

[teacon7]

aiight. I'm out for now. Leave a message or an @ for me and I'll try to catch up later.

[Squigs44]

Me.

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

While that’s somewhat true, I think a mafia who is winging it trying not to get caught and borrowing a townie’s list criteria wouldn’t name seven different mafia. Typically mafia have too few scumreads not too many.
The copying bit is still a good point.

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.

I disagree with this, it goes both ways. There are two schools of thought as cornered scum:
1) Play nice, try to fly under the radar. This leads to lots of town reads for two reasons. One, you know people are town, so it is hard to give a justified push on people. Two, you want people to like you, so you don't push people hard.
2) Control the game. This leads to lots of scum reads. As mafia, you want to keep your options for scumreading people open so that you can vote for whoever helps out the mafia team most. If you give two options for scum, you can really only get away with voting two people, which might not be the best option. Listing 7 people lets you vote for whichever of those 7 is the most convenient to vote for.

The main thing is that Flav was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I will insta-hipfire-Day vig anyone who is telling jokes for "town morale." I don't like my town feeling all happy. I like my town starving and afraid.

[xorxes]

I'm liking Squigs's game start.

Many new players all blending into one for me at the moment.

Prado is back! I don't remember a lot about how he plays, I only remember he is very easy to catch when he is Merlin.

Flavius and teacon being so scummy is kind of awkard for me given last game. @teacon, what's your take on Flavius? @Flavius, what's your take on teacon?

I will probably miss most/all EODs given the time.