MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

[Jamiet99uk]

Peterlund your vote was already on Balki. It doesn't count double if you cast it again.

[yavuzovic]

Mods, please make gold donators color less bright, it's hard to read.
##vote snowy

[yavuzovic]

And stop voting me dr

[TrPrado]

I'm getting a pretty firm idea that Jamie is a major role on the scumteam, so I feel it's key to look back at his interactions and see what I can glean from it to pick up who could be on the scumteam.

The first person who comes to mind is TELAMOR

In the early game there is very little going on, but one key piece is Telamor's vote for me is explicitly because Jamie did as well. This comes across in such a way that it looks like one new scum could be trying to figure out the ropes, and does so by doing as a more experienced member of the scum team does. Since then there's been basically an overnight change, and that sort of rapid change feels like some kind of coaching went on. And yet today they've continued to have some level of interaction but not in the way of two people who are unsure of each other's alignments, or even of people curious of each other's thoughts.

These are two I always got the hint they were likely each scum, but they absolutely fit as members of a team.

Now here's where I would normally fall at an impasse. My lack of attention, and the confusing nature of the way this game has been playing out has left me in the dark. But on my deeper dive it appears SNOWYcould be another member of the scum team.

Unlike his interactions with Telamor, Jamie's interactions with snowy are very much more along the lines of one scum member on board with bussing another. I don't think there's any room to think snowy can be either the Godfather or the Hooker with the way he's been playing, though, and he's one of my lesser scumreads, but Jamie's odd zealousness on this matter but simultaneous willingness to let snowy off the hook (see: claiming snowy's Ike question was a good observation) seems to lend credence to the idea that they could be on a team together. I think it's key to juxtapose his jumping on a wagon he knows he can get credit for (snowy) vs being big talk on a wagon that's pretty clearly going nowhere (peter).

Another one I'm less sure of, but someone who fits pretty well is YAVUZOVIC, though for key different reasons. Their interactions have been much less there, though one detail stands out to me a bit. Last night yavuz mentioned he felt Jamie was worthy of suspicion, yet has at no point since then ever mentioned Jamie. It's pretty eyebrow raising if I'm going to be honest and deserves attention.

yavuz: Can you tell us if and how your thoughts on Jamie have developed?

Now, for my last one there are a couple different people who could fit here. Jamie put pressure on Ezio for lurking and not participating, yet he's done more to participate than a couple others here. The final spot is a tossup, yet I feel it absolutely is going to be a much lurkier member. Specifically I feel it's going to be one of CHAQA, REEDEER, or STRESSEDLINES. Which of them it is I'm not sure, and this is something I'd rather approach down the line as opposed to going for them one at a time, but those three I feel should be kept in mind given Jamie's idea that he's pressuring lurkers while giving no real attention to them.


Now, I still absolutely feel the best person to go after among them is Jamie. He's the most active and the one I'm most confident on and will likely provide the greatest understanding moving forward. With that, I encourage everyone to join me in trying to lynch Jamie.

[Telamor]

Tela, can you describe what you think you should be trying to accomplish at this point in the game and how you're going about doing that?

Good question. My main focus thus far has been on staying alive. That said over the past few hours I've been trying to approach this situation more analytically about what people are trying to achieve. Riviera's accusation that Jamie's outrage at Snowy was faked struck me as both opportunistic and forced given your fairly blasé attitude towards it.

In terms of what I'm doing to try and determine people's motives, I'm asking more context questions such as the one you answered to help me get a read on situations. I've voted StressedLines to try and motivate them to communicate more. I'm now trying to put more of my thoughts out onto the forum to help with CJG's processing power and to hopefully give focus a clearer read on me.

I'm also trying to find out why things are happening. From what I understand Snow got wagonned to motivate them to talk although I still don't understand how Ike is considered neutralised and I think without lynching or Maf NK him we're losing valuable context.

How about yourself Ghug?

[TrPrado]

So, TrPrado, do you conclude that Ike must be town?

Yes, I've already explained my position on this. Reread my posts for today.

First of all, yes it is correct that on D1 I primarily scumread Peter because he was posting a lot, but with no substance, in a manner which to me suggested he was attempting to look involved, without having any opinions or saying anything that might incriminate him.

It is not D1 anymore and things have moved on. Now Peter has created a long-winded case against Balki which I do not believe - and which I am not sure that Peter believes. So I continue to scumread him, even though the situation is evolving.

So am I to believe you intend to read peter in a vacuum day by day?

Finally I do think it's important to answer the last part. The thing which I am calling "nonsense" is a specific element of Peter's Balki case. Xorxes said that Balki was a "scumlean" for him. The phrase Xorx used was that Balki was "scumish and not full scum". Peter has claimed that Xorxes was "soon" going to upgrade this to a hard full-on scumread. But Xorxes did not do that before he died, so Peter is claiming to be able to predict what Xorxes would have said if he'd remained alive, in a way that I don't find convincing.

I bolded this part because I know you know that it disregards what was going on. ALL of his reads at that point were "not full scum," and you even agree that he had a scum read on Balki in order to give your following post some coherence:

Let's look back at our dead comrades Bozo and Xorxes. Town often forget the wisdom of dead players.

At the point of his death, Bozo was scumreading: Rdrivera, Ezio, Peterlund, Teacher, RagingIke, Dargorygel.

At the point of his death, Xorxes was scumreading: Balki, Telamor, Peterlund, Rdrivera

Bozo was townreading: TrPrado

Xorxes was townreading: RagingIke, Dargorygel, Teacher, TrPrado, Yavuzovic, Jamiet, DrCJG, Thamrick and DemonRHK

Common Scumreads: Peterlund, Rdrivera
Common Townread: TrPrado

Hmm.

I feel it's highly hypocritical for you to claim that peter is disingenuous and then turn around and make these sorts of posts.

[RagingIke297]

No one seems to care that that's the way it is and are all encouraging me to vote despite that, so I'll vote.

The RULES set up by the GM says that you must vote. So vote regardless of what others say!

I think you have to vote and I would not be happy if the GM gave you an exemption on this. The question itself "Should I vote?", I also read as scummish, not daring to take a stance and do you bit in the game.

Peter I posted a whole set of reads, I fail to see how I'm not taking a stance. Just to make it that much clearer ##Vote Telamor. (bear in mind I could have self voted and unvoted and that would count all the same)

[Telamor]

This is exactly what I meant with the defensive. You seems to post only when someone ask you a thing or talk about you. If someone says I am lurker, so be it, I don't need to get stats and prove I am not. Unless you are a wagon going to be myslinched, then you fight against it. I am not voting you, I am not pushing you as our today's lynch, as I think it will give little info, I just want to share my impressions when I was reading the thread.
I suggest you start doing the same instead of worrying with what people think of you.

Ah I see where you're coming from now. I'd assumed responding to call outs was a.good way to give people a read on me.

[Telamor]

@Prado, I can see where your read on Jamie and I being a team comes from. Unfortunately it isn't from Jamie coaching me, if he was coaching me then he's probably have had the intelligence to tell me not to copy his votes. The reason it looks like Jamie has been coaching me is that I've been copying him when I'm uncertain of what to do.

[RagingIke297]

Lynch

3. Telamor (-4) - Day 2, Page 35. I am not shy retiring violet by nature at this point he has made 5 posts, I get he's new but that level of activity seems like the amount a shy retiring violet would do. His timing on his posts seems off and seems to know more than what he lets on sometimes. Pg. 38 and 42. Respectively I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Surely a night 1 kill would be ideal against a PR(Power Role?) as it'd dispose of you before you had a potential chance to copscan and start leaving clues for town to follow after you're dead.I'm confused. If Ike has claimed a PR but for some reason the Maf didn't either kill or RB him why are we lynching Snowy?

If you could provide some examples of my seeming to know more than I let on I'd be happy to explain how I reached that point through sheer ignorance. In terms of my timing I'm hopping on when I have the time and inclination any correlation between this and significant moments in game are purely coincidental. Also if you wouldn't mind explaining why it males sense for the Maf to neither roadblock or Kill you after a PR claim I'd be happy to change my mind.

I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Surely a night 1 kill would be ideal against a PR(Power Role?) as it'd dispose of you before you had a potential chance to copscan and start leaving clues for town to follow after you're dead.

This post in particular comes off as you had a private discussion in the Mafia QT and they explained what happens if I' m the cop. The word "Copscan" has only appear one other time in the game before your post and it was teacher. Given that you've been asking all these questions that pertain to lingo, its just somewhat shocking to me that you know exactly what a copscan is and exactly how I would use it if I was the cop.

Now the other bit, I've explained it several times but I will again. Scum has 2 different reasons why they would leave me alive. 1. They don't believe my claim and therefore believe I am not a threat. 2. They do believe my claim, but are intentionally not acting as though they do to cast suspicion on me.

[RagingIke297]

Peterlund your vote was already on Balki. It doesn't count double if you cast it again.

That's actually the third time he's voted for Balki without switching in between. Which him chastising me on how the rules of voting work you would think that he would know his only counts as one no matter how many times he votes

[RagingIke297]

And stop voting me dr

Why are you so concerned about one vote from one person? I could have asked you to do the same thing earlier before you changed to snowy, would YOU have listened to me?

[RagingIke297]

@Prado, I can see where your read on Jamie and I being a team comes from. Unfortunately it isn't from Jamie coaching me, if he was coaching me then he's probably have had the intelligence to tell me not to copy his votes. The reason it looks like Jamie has been coaching me is that I've been copying him when I'm uncertain of what to do.

Why Jamie?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm getting a pretty firm idea that Jamie is a major role on the scumteam.

You are mistaken. I am not any of the roles on the Scumteam. I am Vanilla Town.

[TrPrado]

@Prado, I can see where your read on Jamie and I being a team comes from. Unfortunately it isn't from Jamie coaching me, if he was coaching me then he's probably have had the intelligence to tell me not to copy his votes. The reason it looks like Jamie has been coaching me is that I've been copying him when I'm uncertain of what to do.

Why Jamie?

Maybe we can find out if we lynch Jamie

[TrPrado]

@Prado, I can see where your read on Jamie and I being a team comes from. Unfortunately it isn't from Jamie coaching me, if he was coaching me then he's probably have had the intelligence to tell me not to copy his votes. The reason it looks like Jamie has been coaching me is that I've been copying him when I'm uncertain of what to do.

I’m really not buying the excuse honestly. Maybe if that started AFTER N1 then I could believe it a bit more.

[Jamiet99uk]

So am I to believe you intend to read peter in a vacuum day by day?

No, and you are twisting my words if you think that is what I said.

[Jamiet99uk]

Peter I posted a whole set of reads, I fail to see how I'm not taking a stance. Just to make it that much clearer ##Vote Telamor. (bear in mind I could have self voted and unvoted and that would count all the same)

No, you're not allowed to end the phase on an "unvote".

[peterlund]

Peter has claimed that Xorxes was "soon" going to upgrade this to a hard full-on scumread. But Xorxes did not do that before he died, so Peter is claiming to be able to predict what Xorxes would have said if he'd remained alive, in a way that I don't find convincing.

Either SCUM you are intentionally misinterpreting what I wrote, or you are just plain stupid. Choose yourself which one. I think I go for SCUM you.

A recap for poor Jamie!

Page 34: xorxes: "I can't say exactly, that's why I have him as scumish and not full scum yet."

Page 41: I wrote: "Here Xorxes suspects Balki even more just 27 minutes before EoN1. He had Balki on his scum list already in his early full read list. Are these the circumstantial leads we are looking for? Did scum NK Xorxes in order to protect their Godfather? "

Page 40: In a response to Balki I wrote: "It seemed like he was soon prepared to label you "full scum" or at least scum you could have been thinking so, and this combined with what you could have read as a Xorx COP crumb makes you a very possible mafia member. Maybe even a more important mafia member that needs protection against a veteran mafia player like Xorx."

I find it impossible for intelligent people with some basic understanding of the English language to read in any statement from me that Xorxes was surely going to scum read Balki. The statement I did make, was that scum Balki was afraid of that possible scenario and that was one of the reasons why Xorxes was NKed.

[Jamiet99uk]

@TrPrado - When you find out that I am Town, who will your scumreads be?