M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Tom Bombadil]

Also tom, Bozo claimed when it was the following:

Bozo: 8
Worce: 6
Tom: 3

Was it really that plausible it was gonna land on you instead of on worc?

I mean, yes? It literally did. When worcej claimed it was 7/7 between me and him?

The relevant vote split is at the moment bozo claimed, not worcej. Mafia couldn’t foresee worcej’s counterclaim.

It wasn’t totally implausible that it lands on you, but your argument seems to presuppose that it would certainly land on you from the point bozo claimed, which is far from true.

Are you reading what I am saying? I am saying that worcej’s claim is IRRELEVANT. At no point did I say it would certainly land on me - this seems like an obvious misrepresentation of my point.

My point is that it the risk of it landing on me was high enough that scum bozo would never claim there since there if I were scum because there was significant risk it would kill me.

My point about the vote count is that you, worcej, and Vecna say that worcej would have been the obvious counterwagon, and I’m saying that’s not true both theoretically and since that is not what actually happened. I tied worcej at 7-7 BEFORE worcej claimed.

[kgray]

The last sentence was a bad joke, ignore that.

No I get that was a joke, I didn't get your overall question. Maybe I'm confused as to what you think you missed?

When or where did the bozo and Sabi are partners theories come from? That's what I'm confused about.

What theories that you're partners? I haven't seen anybody suggest that?

[kgray]

im gonna repeat again, that in my book, an oracle reveal on a random DK that didnt claim shit, is probably a huge waste.

Unless the vote analysis would have some really great information, it just doesnt bring us anything. Except then people will do what they usually do, and make potentially horrendous deductions based on VCA.

Why do you think it's so good to oracle jasnah, then?

[BunnyGo]

@kgray want to ##end so we can address vecna's reasonable complaints about the day dragging?

[BunnyGo]

im gonna repeat again, that in my book, an oracle reveal on a random DK that didnt claim shit, is probably a huge waste.

Unless the vote analysis would have some really great information, it just doesnt bring us anything. Except then people will do what they usually do, and make potentially horrendous deductions based on VCA.

Why do you think it's so good to oracle jasnah, then?

He respects my scum game too much.

[kgray]

@kgray want to ##end so we can address vecna's reasonable complaints about the day dragging?

Sure, just for Vecna. ##end

[BesharamSabi]

No I get that was a joke, I didn't get your overall question. Maybe I'm confused as to what you think you missed?

When or where did the bozo and Sabi are partners theories come from? That's what I'm confused about.

What theories that you're partners? I haven't seen anybody suggest that?

You mentioned that in your post....???

[President Eden]

I mean, yes? It literally did. When worcej claimed it was 7/7 between me and him?

The relevant vote split is at the moment bozo claimed, not worcej. Mafia couldn’t foresee worcej’s counterclaim.

It wasn’t totally implausible that it lands on you, but your argument seems to presuppose that it would certainly land on you from the point bozo claimed, which is far from true.

Are you reading what I am saying? I am saying that worcej’s claim is IRRELEVANT. At no point did I say it would certainly land on me - this seems like an obvious misrepresentation of my point.

My point is that it the risk of it landing on me was high enough that scum bozo would never claim there since there if I were scum because there was significant risk it would kill me.

My point about the vote count is that you, worcej, and Vecna say that worcej would have been the obvious counterwagon, and I’m saying that’s not true both theoretically and since that is not what actually happened. I tied worcej at 7-7 BEFORE worcej claimed.

The vote count that matters for that determination is when bozo claimed, which had him at #1, worcej at #2. You were at that point a distant third.
If worcej isn’t exactly the same role as the one bozo claims, it looks appreciably likely that worcej dies, not you.
I certainly don’t see how you think the risk of you being the wagon, at the moment bozo claimed, was high enough that bozo would choose to go down with the ship instead of claim something to get worcej killed and/or bait a CC. For you to even be at risk bozo would have to claim exactly worcej’s role.

[BesharamSabi]

##end let's just kill bozo and move on. 48 hour days is too long and I'm losing interest

[ghug]

I think I want to bump Tom up from the snowy/Bozo tier to the ghug/kgray/rivera tier. I get town vibes from him right now and his basic defense makes a lot of sense.

Tom was in the same tier as bozo before?

[Vecna]

im gonna repeat again, that in my book, an oracle reveal on a random DK that didnt claim shit, is probably a huge waste.

Unless the vote analysis would have some really great information, it just doesnt bring us anything. Except then people will do what they usually do, and make potentially horrendous deductions based on VCA.

Why do you think it's so good to oracle jasnah, then?

Because that -can- actually have relevant outcomes for our understanding of this game that dont rely on votes (outcome being scum or miller).

Note that I already had Bozo pegged for suspicious behavior on how he acted around the Jasnah wagon for example.

Im not saying its the be-all, end-all oracle use. Im saying itll give us more useful results than a random DK we choose now, like Tom B, snowy, Ghug or whatever.

It was also to just undermine the silly comments that the oracle totally needs a new daykill to have a usefull target to reveal.

[Chaqa]

I think I want to bump Tom up from the snowy/Bozo tier to the ghug/kgray/rivera tier. I get town vibes from him right now and his basic defense makes a lot of sense.

It doesn’t.

It does.

[kgray]

When or where did the bozo and Sabi are partners theories come from? That's what I'm confused about.

What theories that you're partners? I haven't seen anybody suggest that?

You mentioned that in your post....???

No I was saying the opposite. I don't think it makes sense for you and bozo to be partners, so you're not in my POE scumpool.

[Vecna]

im gonna repeat again, that in my book, an oracle reveal on a random DK that didnt claim shit, is probably a huge waste.

Unless the vote analysis would have some really great information, it just doesnt bring us anything. Except then people will do what they usually do, and make potentially horrendous deductions based on VCA.

Why do you think it's so good to oracle jasnah, then?

He respects my scum game too much.

I wouldnt call it respect. But I do recognize certain elements of it here. Undermining public opinion and trying to change people's minds constantly about stuff.

You dont do that very often as town.

[President Eden]

I think I want to bump Tom up from the snowy/Bozo tier to the ghug/kgray/rivera tier. I get town vibes from him right now and his basic defense makes a lot of sense.

It doesn’t.

It does.

You can have your town vibes but his basic defense is objectively flawed.

[Tom Bombadil]

The relevant vote split is at the moment bozo claimed, not worcej. Mafia couldn’t foresee worcej’s counterclaim.

It wasn’t totally implausible that it lands on you, but your argument seems to presuppose that it would certainly land on you from the point bozo claimed, which is far from true.

Are you reading what I am saying? I am saying that worcej’s claim is IRRELEVANT. At no point did I say it would certainly land on me - this seems like an obvious misrepresentation of my point.

My point is that it the risk of it landing on me was high enough that scum bozo would never claim there since there if I were scum because there was significant risk it would kill me.

My point about the vote count is that you, worcej, and Vecna say that worcej would have been the obvious counterwagon, and I’m saying that’s not true both theoretically and since that is not what actually happened. I tied worcej at 7-7 BEFORE worcej claimed.

The vote count that matters for that determination is when bozo claimed, which had him at #1, worcej at #2. You were at that point a distant third.
If worcej isn’t exactly the same role as the one bozo claims, it looks appreciably likely that worcej dies, not you.
I certainly don’t see how you think the risk of you being the wagon, at the moment bozo claimed, was high enough that bozo would choose to go down with the ship instead of claim something to get worcej killed and/or bait a CC. For you to even be at risk bozo would have to claim exactly worcej’s role.

Are you for real? Do you read anything I say?

Like the context of the day matters. Worcej had defenders, nobody really townread me. Of course there was a chance his voters would flush to me. SINCE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE WORCEJ EVEN CLAIMED.

Jfc

[Chaqa]

I think I want to bump Tom up from the snowy/Bozo tier to the ghug/kgray/rivera tier. I get town vibes from him right now and his basic defense makes a lot of sense.

Tom was in the same tier as bozo before?

More like the same tier as Snowy, but I was pretty sure all three of them (plus jasnah) waere the scumteam but now I'm doubting Tom a bit.

[President Eden]

Are you reading what I am saying? I am saying that worcej’s claim is IRRELEVANT. At no point did I say it would certainly land on me - this seems like an obvious misrepresentation of my point.

My point is that it the risk of it landing on me was high enough that scum bozo would never claim there since there if I were scum because there was significant risk it would kill me.

My point about the vote count is that you, worcej, and Vecna say that worcej would have been the obvious counterwagon, and I’m saying that’s not true both theoretically and since that is not what actually happened. I tied worcej at 7-7 BEFORE worcej claimed.

The vote count that matters for that determination is when bozo claimed, which had him at #1, worcej at #2. You were at that point a distant third.
If worcej isn’t exactly the same role as the one bozo claims, it looks appreciably likely that worcej dies, not you.
I certainly don’t see how you think the risk of you being the wagon, at the moment bozo claimed, was high enough that bozo would choose to go down with the ship instead of claim something to get worcej killed and/or bait a CC. For you to even be at risk bozo would have to claim exactly worcej’s role.

Are you for real? Do you read anything I say?

Like the context of the day matters. Worcej had defenders, nobody really townread me. Of course there was a chance his voters would flush to me. SINCE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE WORCEJ EVEN CLAIMED.

Jfc

He plainly didn’t have enough defenders, since worcej ended up as the counterwagon between bozo claiming and worcej claiming. It was obviously closer, but your notion that this was all so clearly foreseeable that bozo wouldn’t even try to claim to bait a PR or flip it to worcej is nonsense.

[Chaqa]

It doesn’t.

It does.

You can have your town vibes but his basic defense is objectively flawed.

I don't think it is. It makes sense to me.

[ghug]

I'd like to again strongly voice my objection to killing bozo today. I don't see how having a real kill slows the game down more than a unanimous vote on the obvscum (Vecna, I know your argument is more nuanced than this, but I think you're alone in that).