M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[Vecna]

Why shoot Vecna? Vecna may be scum. Damo is either scum or a certain PR we want dead anyway.

Isn't that what you're claiming damo? You're activated not by our powers but by our votes, so to speak?

No, votes are not a trigger.

but hammers are?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why are you avoiding just saying why you think Im scum?

Do you think there is a lawyer?

If there isn't, how could you suggest that Damo is scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

More and more im starting to doubt how whatever it is Xorxes is claiming and Summit's claim can be compatible with a tracker, watcher, doc, jailkeeper, jamiets role, town busdriver.

This QT element is making it so hard for me to properly sort this game

I would be happy for a massclaim at this point, tbh.

[foodcoats]

Why are you avoiding just saying why you think Im scum?

Do you think there is a lawyer?

If there isn't, how could you suggest that Damo is scum?

Damo could also be a godfather.

But anyway I cede your point that I couldve been trying to draw a lawyer plus scan to get innocent out of the gate. Risking death or any other number of effects. Fine.

Now is that the ONLY reason you scumlean me?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why are you avoiding just saying why you think Im scum?

Do you think there is a lawyer?

If there isn't, how could you suggest that Damo is scum?

Damo could also be a godfather.

But anyway I cede your point that I couldve been trying to draw a lawyer plus scan to get innocent out of the gate. Risking death or any other number of effects. Fine.

Now is that the ONLY reason you scumlean me?

No. The other reason is purely one of setup balance. Town with a Watcher and Lightning Rod? That's super powerful if used correctly.

Can you talk us through exactly why you decided to trigger your power when you did, with no warning you were going to do so?

[foodcoats]

Do you think there is a lawyer?

If there isn't, how could you suggest that Damo is scum?

Damo could also be a godfather.

But anyway I cede your point that I couldve been trying to draw a lawyer plus scan to get innocent out of the gate. Risking death or any other number of effects. Fine.

Now is that the ONLY reason you scumlean me?

No. The other reason is purely one of setup balance. Town with a Watcher and Lightning Rod? That's super powerful if used correctly.

Can you talk us through exactly why you decided to trigger your power when you did, with no warning you were going to do so?

Already did.

Glad I was right in my assessment that you're not even reading.

[xorxes]

Do you know what would have happened if rivera had targeted you? Would you be dead, or does your role explicitly say that you can't be killed when you were using your charges?

It explicitely says I cannot be killed and that whoever targets me dies before their action can have any effect whatsoever

Given your role PM and rivera's role PM, how would you adjudicate if rivera targeted you?

You do see that there's something contradictory or unsatisfying there, don't you?

[damo666]

Damo is there any benefit to keeping your role hidden? You are saying it is reactive. I can only think of one role you can be other than Vecna's role and youre obviously not that. And I think you should claim because it's better for town to know, don't you think?

It becomes useless upon disclosure. It is passive, investigative. That is all I can say, sorry. I can disclose late game when it can be a gameclincher for town, not before. It is too early yet, sorry.

[damo666]

Why shoot Vecna? Vecna may be scum. Damo is either scum or a certain PR we want dead anyway.

Isn't that what you're claiming damo? You're activated not by our powers but by our votes, so to speak?

No, votes are not a trigger.

but hammers are?

No, nothing to do with votes or hammering.

[xorxes]

Why are you avoiding just saying why you think Im scum?

Do you think there is a lawyer?

If there isn't, how could you suggest that Damo is scum?

Damo could also be a godfather.

But anyway I cede your point that I couldve been trying to draw a lawyer plus scan to get innocent out of the gate. Risking death or any other number of effects. Fine.

Now is that the ONLY reason you scumlean me?

Since Mafia had a doctor, you would not have been risking death, you did not even need to make the obvious assumption that town would have a doctor or some other saving ability. I'm not saying this proves you're scum by any means, but you are far from being mechanically clear either.

[damo666]

We can end this in about 3 hours or go another 27.

Thoughts?

Not overly fussed but would support an end if it looks popular.

[bozotheclown]

I get jamie and xorx staying hidden. For now...

But no one else can genuinely argue there isnt a good reason for them to claim

There is a good reason for me not to claim.

[bozotheclown]

Didn't you jail him the same night the redirection happened? He would not have been able to perform it.

whoops, got my nights confused

To extrapolate off that, This means that Bunny can't be the driver OR the person that carried out the kill. Therefore he could only be the one other scum member, that cuts his likelihood of being scum.

I'm not against bunny not claiming til tomorrow but if he doesnt we lynch him

GM Note:
The repetition was necessary because our generic rules have 2 spots where it discusses +1'ing and I only edited one of those spots. For continuity, I had to make a post about it because you cannot edit your posts in Forum Games.

I see, yes:

GENERAL RULES

9. All players must not +1 other players' posts. However you are greatly encouraged to +1 any GM posts. In fact, I would say this is mandatory but I doubt most of you will read this little bit in here hehe...

ELABORATION

9. You are permitted to click the "+1" on any other player's in-game posts because I (worcej) think it is fun and it will be interesting to see who reads these rules or not. Giving +1s to the GM is actively encouraged because I like karma. Like I said earlier, should be mandatory if you ask me...

When you posted the third 9, I went back and read the second 9, but I missed the first 9.

But now when checking that I run into this:

ROLE ACTIONS:
If you have any actions to take, please PM your action the GMs. Night actions will be processed at the end of the night and can be changed up to that point. Mafia's nightkill and roleblock will be voted on in the mafia chat.

That suggests that Mafia have a factional nightkill and a factional roleblock. Is that correct, or was that a leftover from general rules that may not apply to this game?

Another good catch. I apologize for my ineptitude - They have a faction kill, but not a faction RB.

The NK is factional, so if there is a driver, the driver can also perform the NK.

[xorxes]

We can end this in about 3 hours or go another 27.

Thoughts?

Not overly fussed but would support an end if it looks popular.

The only reason would be if Squigs is town and Tem is town and Tem has a very useful role that we would be destroying without even giving him a chance to tell us. I think none of that will happen, I'm pretty convinced by now that Squigs is scum. I understand the impatience, I want to know to, but rationally we should wait for Tem to show up.

[bozotheclown]

Serious question time. I want an answer from everyone as soon as they see this post.

Did you read the post I made about me jailing myself? I mean read it. Not just acknowledge it was my logic and move on. I mean read what I wrote and why I wrote it.

Vecna -
Chaqa -
Tem -
Squigs -
Damo -
Bunny -
Jamie -
Xorx -
Summit -
Bozo -
Food -

I read it.

[bozotheclown]

We can end this in about 3 hours or go another 27.

Thoughts?

Not overly fussed but would support an end if it looks popular.

The only reason would be if Squigs is town and Tem is town and Tem has a very useful role that we would be destroying without even giving him a chance to tell us. I think none of that will happen, I'm pretty convinced by now that Squigs is scum. I understand the impatience, I want to know to, but rationally we should wait for Tem to show up.

There is also the thing where Squigs says he can only target Temasek if Temasek is on his wagon.

[bozotheclown]

Ill tell you this though: since its semi-confirmed the scum had a redirector, and my role is confirmed as well, the fact you guys dont treat me as a townclear for mechanical reasons is baffling.

If I was scum with that redirecting role: Why not redirect people to target me while I was using that ability? An extra kill that couldnt be stopped by anything? Sounds pretty usefull.

If scum indeed have a way to mess with the cop results, why use the redirector in such a weak way just to point brainbomb in the other direction? (Hint: its because they believed I was bluffing and they wanted me to kill brainbomb). If I was scum with a redirector, itd have been a lot better to redirect summit to me instead and create a fake townclear.

summit was redirect to you, or driven with you.

[xorxes]

We can end this in about 3 hours or go another 27.

Thoughts?

Not overly fussed but would support an end if it looks popular.

The only reason would be if Squigs is town and Tem is town and Tem has a very useful role that we would be destroying without even giving him a chance to tell us. I think none of that will happen, I'm pretty convinced by now that Squigs is scum. I understand the impatience, I want to know to, but rationally we should wait for Tem to show up.

There is also the thing where Squigs says he can only target Temasek if Temasek is on his wagon.

Right. So in order to hammer before Tem shows up we need to pick another target for town!Squigs. And Vecna should be voting Squigs so he is in the mix.

[bozotheclown]

Game seems pretty dead. I don't think lynching Squigs is the worst thing, but I really feel like this is one of the few situations where no-lynch would actually be preferable. My thoughts:

We have two roles that are info-gathering. Summit and Xorxes can attempt to get info on Bunny, Temasek, Squigs, and Vecna (some grouping of them). With a bit of luck, we'll have some definitive information.

Neph can jail one of Temasek and Bunny (and maybe Foodcoats as an option). This could prevent the mafia night-kill. Jamiet can use his protective ability to possibly block the kill.

There's at least one or two other roles out there that can be used tonight, I'm sure. Bunny says his power is good, so I'd recommend he isn't the jail target but a scan target.

If the mafia makes a kill, it will likely be xorxes or summit. This isn't amazing for us, BUT it does eliminate the concerns about one of them being deep-cover scum.

Best-case today if we lynch is Squigs is scum.
Medium cases are he is town and he shoots scum, or he is scum and suicides into a town member causing a no lynch.
Worst-case is he is town and shoots a town.

So, if we lynch, we can be anyway from -3T to -1S, -1T tomorrow. But on average we're -2.5T, -0.5S (assuming NK and Squigs is truthful).

If we no-lynch, at worst we're -1T, but sometimes we're -0T. Hell, if someone has some shenanigans to pull, we could even be -1T, -1S.

I just honestly think it's a better plan than lynching Squigs.

##Vote No Lynch

#ComeAtMe

If we decide that lynching Squigs is a bad idea because of potentially killing two townies, then we lynch someone else. I have no idea why you would think no-lynch is a good idea. That's almost never a good idea. Nothing Squigs has said or done suggests that he is town though.

Almost never maybe, but it is not unreasonable to argue it is a good idea here with the potential for additional information. However, I would like to see Squigs and/or Temasek resolved today.

[bozotheclown]

The only reason would be if Squigs is town and Tem is town and Tem has a very useful role that we would be destroying without even giving him a chance to tell us. I think none of that will happen, I'm pretty convinced by now that Squigs is scum. I understand the impatience, I want to know to, but rationally we should wait for Tem to show up.

There is also the thing where Squigs says he can only target Temasek if Temasek is on his wagon.

Right. So in order to hammer before Tem shows up we need to pick another target for town!Squigs. And Vecna should be voting Squigs so he is in the mix.

If Squigs is a scum Vengeful who really does have the restriction of killing someone on his wagon, we are giving him a choice of kills. I think it would be a good idea to have a second wagon on Temasek, with at least you and summit voting for Temasek.