MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

I think it is worth getting an early survey recorded, it would be surprising if anyone was accurate enough early for the scum to target them.

[Kitsune]

And... language check?

Is pocketing someone in the sense of trying to get them to be your pocket pet, your friend who trusts you and sticks by you?

Or like in a game of pool where you’re trying to pocket a ball to remove it from play?

[bozotheclown]

Current reads

Scum

Espresso
Jamie
Food
Bozo

Town

Brain
Xorx
EMC

I will take this as your input, please edit my survey results if you change your mind. Also, why so negative on the survey idea when you had already provided exactly 4 scum reads yourself?

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb
Nephthys: brainbomb, xorxes, emc, bozo

[bozotheclown]

Current reads

Scum

Espresso
Jamie
Food
Bozo

Town

Brain
Xorx
EMC

I will take this as your input, please edit my survey results if you change your mind. Also, why so negative on the survey idea when you had already provided exactly 4 scum reads yourself?

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb
Nephthys: brainbomb, xorxes, emc, bozo

Sorry, wrong list:

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb
Nephthys: Espresso, Jamie, foodcoats, bozo

[bozotheclown]

And... language check?

Is pocketing someone in the sense of trying to get them to be your pocket pet, your friend who trusts you and sticks by you?

Or like in a game of pool where you’re trying to pocket a ball to remove it from play?

From mafiauniverse.com:

"Pocketing refers to when a mafia-aligned player buddies up to a town-aligned player in the hopes that this will make said player view the mafia-aligned player favorably. Usually the mafia-aligned player will defend the town player in order to "pocket" them."

[Temasek22]

Getting town vibes from xorx, emc and brain. While getting scum vibes from Vapor (I hope I'm not OMGUSsing) and Kitsune

Whatever... ##Vote Kitsune

@temasek
Can you give us something more here? You were phenomenal in the last game... analytical and involved. Why Kitsune? Why townie vibes from xorxes, emc, and brain? What's your foundation for vape and Kits?

I was scum last game :/ I'm still fairly new and got to go at that time so it was a little bit vague. I'll summarise later.

[bozotheclown]

Filling in from the Vapor and Espresso reads lists:

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb
Nephthys: Espresso, Jamie, foodcoats, bozo
Vapor: darg, Espresso, foodcoats, ?
Espresso: Foxcastle, emc, Kalel, darg?

[Temasek22]

Still hoping for yuuki to show up, he's a really good player as town both times I've seen him play, or played with him. We might need his scumhunting skills here.

[Jamiet99uk]

Thinking about it, how the hell is my question "who would you kill if you were mafia" a PR hunt?

Explain that one for me Jamie.

Because you could have asked "who seems the most town?" Or you could have asked "who is at the greatest risk of NK?".

Jamie... I disagree with most of what you say, but I've learned that doesn't necessarily mean you're scum.

Consider this honestly: if worcej had asked the question in any one of your suggested ways, could you see yourself calling him out for PR fishing in roughly the same way?

Because I can picture it clearly.

But your phrasing of your question was such that it may reveal a lot about how willing each person is to answer.

That's the point!

Then clearly the point is to fish for PRs.

Bad.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie
I see what you purport... I don't think worcej is pr-hunting, but his question gives, perhaps, scum places to make their NK more confusing to town.

Thinking about it, how the hell is my question "who would you kill if you were mafia" a PR hunt?

Explain that one for me Jamie.

I already did. Aren't you following the game?

[Nephthys]

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

(1) The more you do things and the more you ask of people the less people are willing to participate.
(2) Most thoughts here are pure conjecture and there's nothing to really go on (as opposed to later), later there is more and everything has meaning. Also putting more emphasis on reads now exemplifies the webdip meta of looking at meta. This is bad and why town tends to lose in recent games if mechanics don't fall their way.
(3) I think its coming from a scum perspective therefore bozo thinks he can get benefit, he's likely just going for towncred but in case there is something that he's thought of, I'm more hesistant to join in.
(4) If he actually cared about people's reads they aren't hard to find, I very recently published an entire read list, why couldn't he go and find it there. This indicates to me that he may not actually be that worried about the outcome. Again this would fit well with a scum presenting this for towncred.

[Nephthys]

Here are the reasons for my top scum reads. Keep in mind it is early and there is not a lot to go on yet:

-----

Nephthys: This post seems like scum taking an easy shot, and it is not logically consistent:

Calling it now

Espresso/bozo scumteam

I could see Nephthys think Espresso is trying to pocket me, or think I am scum for other reasons, but scum almost never look like they are pocketing other scum.

Hardly.

I thought the whole entrance of the two of you weird. You came in with 5 very unremarkable posts, the only thing you did was say you thought there would be busser on the Vapor wagon. (of which I can make a case on in an of itself - will follow)

Espresso then flies in saying the only thoughts we had were that you were town and he wanted to see your mechanical thoughts.
1. Why were you the only person that he formed a read
2. Why are you his go to mechanics.
When asking people about mechanics, they can always bag some easy towncred. Therefore most people thoughts on mechanics are viable. This means that logically, you would go for the people who are the most familiar with the set up. In my head, both Jamie and brain are ahead of you on that one.

Essentially this left me with one big question

Why were you at the front of Espresso's mind?

The most logical answer is that he had seen your name recently. Its possible this was in a non-anon game or something but most likely that he read his PM where the rest of his scumteam was listed.

[Vaporwave]

Phuck bomb's classifications, there are like 50 variations for neutrals and many others for town and scum, you need to have the initials (for example LG) and what it means side by side. Who has time for that? I got nothing from BG, Kitsune and any other player who were using bomb's style

It's a fancy way to overcomplicate a list but not only that

it makes scum use a lesser degree of seriousness when referring to potential partners, we can't hold them accountable because there are 5 types of everything. Bomb, do better

I prefer bozo's style, but Neph mentioned it being a horrible tactic now..

we'll see if I can compile a list later, I want to look over certain people, esp foodcoats

[Nephthys]

It would be unusual for a town to pick up 3 votes that fast. brainbomb, Maniac, or xorxes is probably bussing Vaporwave.

As for this....

Bussing. Not pushing, not leading a ML. Bussing.

Clear and explicit.

Admittedly you had your vote on Vapor yet still you come in later with

I think it is worth getting an early survey recorded, it would be surprising if anyone was accurate enough early for the scum to target them.

This quote shows that you understand how inaccurate a non-outed read is, especially day 1.

Why so sure?

The easiest explanation is that you are scum as well.

[Nephthys]

Phuck bomb's classifications, there are like 50 variations for neutrals and many others for town and scum, you need to have the initials (for example LG) and what it means side by side. Who has time for that? I got nothing from BG, Kitsune and any other player who were using bomb's style

It's a fancy way to overcomplicate a list but not only that

it makes scum use a lesser degree of seriousness when referring to potential partners, we can't hold them accountable because there are 5 types of everything. Bomb, do better

I prefer bozo's style, but Neph mentioned it being a horrible tactic now..

we'll see if I can compile a list later, I want to look over certain people, esp foodcoats

I'm all for read lists, I just don't think its the best time to start collating them to hunt.

once again, going back to bozo saying they likely wont be all that accurate indicates why its a waste of time.

[Vaporwave]

Yes, bozo's strategy would be more solid starting D2 or D3, we need some info first

[Nephthys]

Yes, bozo's strategy would be more solid starting D2 or D3, we need some info first

That's all I'm saying, and bringing it up now gives scum time to prepare as well. On the whole not the most pro town play.

[bozotheclown]

Here are the reasons for my top scum reads. Keep in mind it is early and there is not a lot to go on yet:

-----

Nephthys: This post seems like scum taking an easy shot, and it is not logically consistent:

Calling it now

Espresso/bozo scumteam

I could see Nephthys think Espresso is trying to pocket me, or think I am scum for other reasons, but scum almost never look like they are pocketing other scum.

Hardly.

I thought the whole entrance of the two of you weird. You came in with 5 very unremarkable posts, the only thing you did was say you thought there would be busser on the Vapor wagon. (of which I can make a case on in an of itself - will follow)

Espresso then flies in saying the only thoughts we had were that you were town and he wanted to see your mechanical thoughts.
1. Why were you the only person that he formed a read
2. Why are you his go to mechanics.
When asking people about mechanics, they can always bag some easy towncred. Therefore most people thoughts on mechanics are viable. This means that logically, you would go for the people who are the most familiar with the set up. In my head, both Jamie and brain are ahead of you on that one.

Essentially this left me with one big question

Why were you at the front of Espresso's mind?

The most logical answer is that he had seen your name recently. Its possible this was in a non-anon game or something but most likely that he read his PM where the rest of his scumteam was listed.

Espresso would certainly not do that as scum, and almost everyone would be careful enough not to do that.

[bozotheclown]

Phuck bomb's classifications, there are like 50 variations for neutrals and many others for town and scum, you need to have the initials (for example LG) and what it means side by side. Who has time for that? I got nothing from BG, Kitsune and any other player who were using bomb's style

It's a fancy way to overcomplicate a list but not only that

it makes scum use a lesser degree of seriousness when referring to potential partners, we can't hold them accountable because there are 5 types of everything. Bomb, do better

I prefer bozo's style, but Neph mentioned it being a horrible tactic now..

we'll see if I can compile a list later, I want to look over certain people, esp foodcoats

I'm all for read lists, I just don't think its the best time to start collating them to hunt.

once again, going back to bozo saying they likely wont be all that accurate indicates why its a waste of time.

It is not a waste of time just because the accuracy will be lower. The whole point of tabulating everyone's reads is to check for correlation to see who rises from the noise.

[Nephthys]

Here are the reasons for my top scum reads. Keep in mind it is early and there is not a lot to go on yet:

-----

Nephthys: This post seems like scum taking an easy shot, and it is not logically consistent:



I could see Nephthys think Espresso is trying to pocket me, or think I am scum for other reasons, but scum almost never look like they are pocketing other scum.

Hardly.

I thought the whole entrance of the two of you weird. You came in with 5 very unremarkable posts, the only thing you did was say you thought there would be busser on the Vapor wagon. (of which I can make a case on in an of itself - will follow)

Espresso then flies in saying the only thoughts we had were that you were town and he wanted to see your mechanical thoughts.
1. Why were you the only person that he formed a read
2. Why are you his go to mechanics.
When asking people about mechanics, they can always bag some easy towncred. Therefore most people thoughts on mechanics are viable. This means that logically, you would go for the people who are the most familiar with the set up. In my head, both Jamie and brain are ahead of you on that one.

Essentially this left me with one big question

Why were you at the front of Espresso's mind?

The most logical answer is that he had seen your name recently. Its possible this was in a non-anon game or something but most likely that he read his PM where the rest of his scumteam was listed.

Espresso would certainly not do that as scum, and almost everyone would be careful enough not to do that.

Only if he realised it, look back on previous games. Many scum include each other erroniously in read lists early and interact early