Mini-Mafia M1014

[Hamilton Brian]

@moscow, how's your reading coming along? Anything of note stand out to you? How convinced are you that Bozo was a miller and two of gold, ghug, Damo are the real mafia?

[Hamilton Brian]

I think this quasi clears gold.

What specifically clears Gold? That Bozo replied or just the question from Gold?

Last game Gold was back and forth with mechanics and PR roles. Does this correlate 100% with this game? No, but it's a pattern to me.

Damo throwing cover to Gold is something to keep an eye on.

[goldfinger0303]

I think this quasi clears gold.

What specifically clears Gold? That Bozo replied or just the question from Gold?

Last game Gold was back and forth with mechanics and PR roles. Does this correlate 100% with this game? No, but it's a pattern to me.

Damo throwing cover to Gold is something to keep an eye on.

Let me point out the inconsistency here, HB.

You say you think bozo was genuine scum two posts before this. How does damo throwing cover on me make sense in a world where only one scum remains?

[Hamilton Brian]

I think this quasi clears gold.

What specifically clears Gold? That Bozo replied or just the question from Gold?

Last game Gold was back and forth with mechanics and PR roles. Does this correlate 100% with this game? No, but it's a pattern to me.

Damo throwing cover to Gold is something to keep an eye on.

Let me point out the inconsistency here, HB.

You say you think bozo was genuine scum two posts before this. How does damo throwing cover on me make sense in a world where only one scum remains?

Working under the assumption that my sense of them is wrong and we have 2 of each remaining. Not so much an inconsistency and more of trying to cover the bases as best as possible. Not like Bozo flipped godfather so we have to keep the structure in mind. Thanks for pointing it out.

[damo666]

I think this quasi clears gold.

What specifically clears Gold? That Bozo replied or just the question from Gold?

Last game Gold was back and forth with mechanics and PR roles. Does this correlate 100% with this game? No, but it's a pattern to me.

Damo throwing cover to Gold is something to keep an eye on.

I think it unlikely Bozo would have said what he did if Gold was his scum partner. Not impossible though.

[MoscowFleet]

Okay, so I think something that becomes fairly obvious early on is that it's very unlikely HB or durga are scum. HB I townread anyways, but throw in the fact that the first thing bozo did was pressure him, I really don't think that's what bozo would do, while knowing that his teammate is newer to the game and could panic, not know how to react, etc. Later on (pg 9) bozo keeps up the pressure and puts forth the possibility of a HB-yoyo scumteam. Plus, I think in general it's a pretty safe assumption that Bozo didn't bus the GF too much.

Durga started the push on bozo, calling attention to his scummy start and fake engagement. A strong bus right off the bat in a game with 2 scum? I sincerely doubt it. So I'm pretty confident in strongly townreading both HB and durga.

Now moving on to gold..

Ghug was doing this at LYLO last game. Believe me, it's NAI. Annoyingly so.

Bozo, unlike ghug I expected more of substance from you. I think everyone here has weighed in on your color posts so if it was a reaction test it should be done. What was the purpose of that?

Also, yoyo has dipped since I called him out for not lurking.

This is a very plausible post from a potential scum partner, subtly calling out some obvious scumminess and trying to get them to change before Durga and I convinced some more people that bozo was to be wagoned.

@Durga - What info exactly would we get from a bozo kill? Bozo can be quite an asset if town, and kinda slips into lurking if not. Damo was definitely more involved D1 of last game, imo. But I don't know if that's AI or not

Some more defense of bozo. This is around 4 hours before EOD, where bozo is tied for the leading wagon against yoyo.

1.5 hours to EOD, gold says bozo is a bad kill today because killing lurkers is a bad strat. I think when taking a step back here and looking at the continuation of gold's posts regarding bozo, this paints an extremely suspect picture. There's a wagon on bozo. Gold tries to half-heartedly diffuse it, saying he can be an asset to town. Around this time he also unsuccessfully hunts around in an attempt to get wagons going on HB and damo (twice). The save effort is in full-swing here. Then, when yoyo posts an admittedly dumb reason for voting bozo (kill the lurkers), gold is all over it ASAP as a way to deflect bozo's scumminess and push the narrative that bozo is only a wagon because he's been lurking.

10 min before EOD we get this gem:

I'm not going to join the bozo wagon. I don't like it.

Still too early to decide on the yoyo wagon.

So much defense of bozo, and yet not a single time did gold actually explain why bozo was apparently such a strong townread for him. As for 'still too early to decide on yoyo', that seems to be very obviously false, considering his post where he voted him and condemned the 'kill all lurkers' strategy.

Taking a break from gold, ghug makes a pair of posts 30 min before EOD that look really awful in hindsight:

Guys gold is self voting that's so sketchy you have to kill him.

It is hella sketchy, agreed. Bozo is still scummier though. Gold at least has made some effort at pro-town discussion.

Why would bozo play the way he's been playing as scum?

Man I was all ready to vote bozo if I needed to but the more I think about it the more I really don't want to kill him either.

Obviously this is not a good look. Now normally I could buy the argument that ghug would never say this when he knows that bozo could flip scum and he could get caught looking like an idiot - in fact, this was my first thought. But actually that argument doesn't hold up, because bozo is goon and we wouldn't know his alignment on flip. This mechanic allows scum to more brazenly defend the goon, which I suspect was taken advantage of. As it played out however, bozo fake-claimed which really backfired on this whole strategy.

With the votes at 4-3 for bozo, ghug posts with 5 min to go:

Bozo, I'm probably going to kill you. Last thoughts?

To which bozo quotes his cop claim. Very good to see that ghug was willing to go bozo here - with gold voting a third party and having already expressed a strong reluctance at voting for bozo, if ghug votes yoyo here he probably gets killed. It's I guess possible that bozo took this as a cue from his partner to claim - however, I think this is rather unlikely.

So to summarize - gold is scum. If it turns out to not be gold then I actually maybe favour damo over ghug. Not voting yoyo at the end there looks very, very good for ghug.

[MoscowFleet]

Don't know what to make of Bozo's colourful entrance. Anyone know what the strange post means? Bozo being Bozo it's probably NAI anyway.

Could you elaborate on "Bozo being Bozo"? In your view, what does Bozo usually play like?

Also, I really wish that damo had answered this question.

[damo666]

Okay, so I think something that becomes fairly obvious early on is that it's very unlikely HB or durga are scum. HB I townread anyways, but throw in the fact that the first thing bozo did was pressure him, I really don't think that's what bozo would do, while knowing that his teammate is newer to the game and could panic, not know how to react, etc. Later on (pg 9) bozo keeps up the pressure and puts forth the possibility of a HB-yoyo scumteam. Plus, I think in general it's a pretty safe assumption that Bozo didn't bus the GF too much.

Durga started the push on bozo, calling attention to his scummy start and fake engagement. A strong bus right off the bat in a game with 2 scum? I sincerely doubt it. So I'm pretty confident in strongly townreading both HB and durga.

Now moving on to gold..

Ghug was doing this at LYLO last game. Believe me, it's NAI. Annoyingly so.

Bozo, unlike ghug I expected more of substance from you. I think everyone here has weighed in on your color posts so if it was a reaction test it should be done. What was the purpose of that?

Also, yoyo has dipped since I called him out for not lurking.

This is a very plausible post from a potential scum partner, subtly calling out some obvious scumminess and trying to get them to change before Durga and I convinced some more people that bozo was to be wagoned.

@Durga - What info exactly would we get from a bozo kill? Bozo can be quite an asset if town, and kinda slips into lurking if not. Damo was definitely more involved D1 of last game, imo. But I don't know if that's AI or not

Some more defense of bozo. This is around 4 hours before EOD, where bozo is tied for the leading wagon against yoyo.

1.5 hours to EOD, gold says bozo is a bad kill today because killing lurkers is a bad strat. I think when taking a step back here and looking at the continuation of gold's posts regarding bozo, this paints an extremely suspect picture. There's a wagon on bozo. Gold tries to half-heartedly diffuse it, saying he can be an asset to town. Around this time he also unsuccessfully hunts around in an attempt to get wagons going on HB and damo (twice). The save effort is in full-swing here. Then, when yoyo posts an admittedly dumb reason for voting bozo (kill the lurkers), gold is all over it ASAP as a way to deflect bozo's scumminess and push the narrative that bozo is only a wagon because he's been lurking.

10 min before EOD we get this gem:

I'm not going to join the bozo wagon. I don't like it.

Still too early to decide on the yoyo wagon.

So much defense of bozo, and yet not a single time did gold actually explain why bozo was apparently such a strong townread for him. As for 'still too early to decide on yoyo', that seems to be very obviously false, considering his post where he voted him and condemned the 'kill all lurkers' strategy.

Taking a break from gold, ghug makes a pair of posts 30 min before EOD that look really awful in hindsight:

It is hella sketchy, agreed. Bozo is still scummier though. Gold at least has made some effort at pro-town discussion.

Why would bozo play the way he's been playing as scum?

Man I was all ready to vote bozo if I needed to but the more I think about it the more I really don't want to kill him either.

Obviously this is not a good look. Now normally I could buy the argument that ghug would never say this when he knows that bozo could flip scum and he could get caught looking like an idiot - in fact, this was my first thought. But actually that argument doesn't hold up, because bozo is goon and we wouldn't know his alignment on flip. This mechanic allows scum to more brazenly defend the goon, which I suspect was taken advantage of. As it played out however, bozo fake-claimed which really backfired on this whole strategy.

With the votes at 4-3 for bozo, ghug posts with 5 min to go:

Bozo, I'm probably going to kill you. Last thoughts?

To which bozo quotes his cop claim. Very good to see that ghug was willing to go bozo here - with gold voting a third party and having already expressed a strong reluctance at voting for bozo, if ghug votes yoyo here he probably gets killed. It's I guess possible that bozo took this as a cue from his partner to claim - however, I think this is rather unlikely.

So to summarize - gold is scum. If it turns out to not be gold then I actually maybe favour damo over ghug. Not voting yoyo at the end there looks very, very good for ghug.

Very strong post (apart from the bit about me).

[goldfinger0303]

I do like the post as well.

##vote gold

[ghug]

I do like the post as well.

##vote gold

Remind me who you actually think is scum?

[goldfinger0303]

I do like the post as well.

##vote gold

Remind me who you actually think is scum?

I'm about 70% sure it's damo

[ghug]

I do like the post as well.

##vote gold

Remind me who you actually think is scum?

I'm about 70% sure it's damo

Say we kill damo tomorrow and the game doesn't end.

[Hamilton Brian]

Moscow demonstrating a good exemplar for read, argument, and proof. I'd + that post if it were allowed. Thanks!!! You expressed some of what I was thinking but was having difficulty saying.

Interesting point about ghug, and I think I need to disagree with you, but I have to go back to the day to validate.

[MoscowFleet]

Moscow demonstrating a good exemplar for read, argument, and proof. I'd + that post if it were allowed. Thanks!!! You expressed some of what I was thinking but was having difficulty saying.

Interesting point about ghug, and I think I need to disagree with you, but I have to go back to the day to validate.

I almost hope you're scum and we're witnessing a crazy, magnificent performance.

[Hamilton Brian]

I almost hope you're scum and we're witnessing a crazy, magnificent performance.

Sorry to disappoint.

[ghug]

Moscow demonstrating a good exemplar for read, argument, and proof. I'd + that post if it were allowed. Thanks!!! You expressed some of what I was thinking but was having difficulty saying.

Interesting point about ghug, and I think I need to disagree with you, but I have to go back to the day to validate.

Go do it

[goldfinger0303]

Remind me who you actually think is scum?

I'm about 70% sure it's damo

Say we kill damo tomorrow and the game doesn't end.

I will maintain that both scum were on Yoyo to save bozo's life.

If it's not damo who did an early bus and got caught, I think it would be someone who made a switch to save bozo's life.

So, Durga.

[goldfinger0303]

Actually, let me amend that.

It depends on how damo flips - as a goon or not.

If damo flips as a VT, I will 100% think it's Durga.

If damo flips as a goon, I think we need to seriously consider the fact that it is possible bozo is an insanely massive idiot.

[goldfinger0303]

Moscow demonstrating a good exemplar for read, argument, and proof. I'd + that post if it were allowed. Thanks!!! You expressed some of what I was thinking but was having difficulty saying.

Interesting point about ghug, and I think I need to disagree with you, but I have to go back to the day to validate.

I almost hope you're scum and we're witnessing a crazy, magnificent performance.

Again, I do hope people are seeing my D1 stuff in a new light as the game goes on.

[ghug]

@Durga, you said when bozo claimed that you'd expect scum to claim doc. Why?