MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

At one point I realized I had my numbers off one so it probably wasn’t clear anyway.

Idk how I didn’t notice worcej on the d3 wagon

[Hamilton Brian]

Saw your post Celaph; I don't want to piss up the quoting deal so I will do a cut and paste sort of thing. Lots of questions. Willing to go back to that other comment from Bona and PE about not actually answering a question. I'll see if I can communicate my meandering train of thought in a linear way.

[Hamilton Brian]

Without doing post counts, last night seems to have been the most active you've been. Don't quote me on that; it's just me talking about my "feels" without crossreferencing with actual data.

[Hamilton Brian]

Celaph: questions/thoughts are yours. Mine are in parentheses.

Presumably you’ve read the reasons that people are scumreading you even if they are for your past slot. Do you agree with their criticisms or does anyone’s feel forced? (Agree? Naturally not. Forced? I don’t think so, but I’d need to re-read them to spot anything that feels forced to me.) Anything scummy that you see in Rumi and Bo’s reads in particular? (Again, previous response; I’ll give a reread.)



You’re reads on Chaqa and I suggest that you read more than simply EoD1. (True, I scanned the entire day through ISO) At the same time, you make no mention of how the rest of the day affects your read on anyone else? Why is that? (Brevity; I am trying to catch up to where everyone else is in this game.) Also, there is no sense in trying to give Jamie town points for D1 voting when he’s a claimed cop. (Let me check that but I also wasn’t aware that Jamie had confirmed cop when I wrote that out) Feels like this was written with completion in mind, not trying to solve the game. (Interesting take; tell me more about this “feel.”)


I don’t get the sense that HB trying to sort people even with the limited amount of information he has. I also get the consistent vibe that he is talking to town instead of as one of town. (Interesting opinion; tells me that my play isn’t measuring up according to your standards. Not sure how to take that.)

Just wanting to reach back to PE’s colour read of me…I think it’s a fair assessment. Also a reflection of me being distracted and I think anyone’s understanding of my play with mechanical hijinx is usually “WTF is going on here.” This game is no different.

[Hamilton Brian]

Is there some detail im actually missing?

Y'all are talking like there is some other outted scum or w/e.

I feel the same way right now with the HB wagon. Besides my early take on Neon, what changed?

So, here's where I'm at with it:
1. Mafia knew Sabi claimed Deathbomb
2. Presumably, Sabi was truthing
3. Mafia would want the Deathbomb on one of their own
4. Neon and Sabi were swapped
5. Therefore, either the driver pushed the bomb ONTO Neon, or the driver pushed Neon's tag onto Sabi and the bombtag onto themself.

I don't see much reason for the mafia team to choose town!Neon to swap Sabi with, unless they wanted to place suspicion on Neon.

I don't know what process you used to come to these conclusions and it seems like it was a tonne of work, (or maybe not). So this morning, are there any changes you'd make to this, even beyond your suggestions posted after this?

[DemonRHK]

GM VOTE COUNT DAY FOUR THE FIRST
(Hand count, through post 5765)

Hamilton Brian(4): Bonatogether*, President Eden, Rumi Tobari, celaph
Vecna(2): rdrivera2005, Vecna
rdrivera2005(2): bo_xox48, Chaqa*
Presidentr Eden(1): ghug*
Chaqa(1): Hamilton Brian
worcej(1): worcej

Currently, HAMILTON BRIAN is set to GET RECK'D.

8.5ish hours remain in Day 4.

[Hamilton Brian]

At one point I realized I had my numbers off one so it probably wasn’t clear anyway.

Idk how I didn’t notice worcej on the d3 wagon

Is that relevant, to you, somehow? Should it be very relevant to the rest of us?

[Chaqa]

I feel the same way right now with the HB wagon. Besides my early take on Neon, what changed?

So, here's where I'm at with it:
1. Mafia knew Sabi claimed Deathbomb
2. Presumably, Sabi was truthing
3. Mafia would want the Deathbomb on one of their own
4. Neon and Sabi were swapped
5. Therefore, either the driver pushed the bomb ONTO Neon, or the driver pushed Neon's tag onto Sabi and the bombtag onto themself.

I don't see much reason for the mafia team to choose town!Neon to swap Sabi with, unless they wanted to place suspicion on Neon.

I don't know what process you used to come to these conclusions and it seems like it was a tonne of work, (or maybe not). So this morning, are there any changes you'd make to this, even beyond your suggestions posted after this?

I'm gonna redo it all at lunch

[Chaqa]

At one point I realized I had my numbers off one so it probably wasn’t clear anyway.

Idk how I didn’t notice worcej on the d3 wagon

Is that relevant, to you, somehow? Should it be very relevant to the rest of us?

It was in response to celaph. I severely mislabeled my stuff earlier, so I'm going to throw it all out and re-do my vote tag analysis. Plus, I have a bunch more tag claims now.

[Hamilton Brian]

Ah, I've solved it.

Neon and Sabi were chosen to drive because the driver knew them.

Ergo Bona deep cover scum confirmed

Get em boys

Here's where I can't help it because I read most everything on here so literally.

You are suggesting that
a) Neon and Sabi were driven because the driver knew them. What do you mean and how do you know? I am hung up on the "knew" part of your statement.

b) Bona deep cover scum; again, is this me reading something literally when it shouldn't be taken that way? Or is this a serious statement, and if so, what brought you to that conclusion?

This is then followed up with some "jokey" comments from Worcej and Bona.

[Chaqa]

Ah, I've solved it.

Neon and Sabi were chosen to drive because the driver knew them.

Ergo Bona deep cover scum confirmed

Get em boys

Here's where I can't help it because I read most everything on here so literally.

You are suggesting that
a) Neon and Sabi were driven because the driver knew them. What do you mean and how do you know? I am hung up on the "knew" part of your statement.

b) Bona deep cover scum; again, is this me reading something literally when it shouldn't be taken that way? Or is this a serious statement, and if so, what brought you to that conclusion?

This is then followed up with some "jokey" comments from Worcej and Bona.

The entire post is sarcasm.

Unless...

[Chaqa]

The best way to think of me is as a classic court jester - saying things as jokes with a hint of truth to get you thinking.

[Hamilton Brian]

In reading that page, no sooner had the mention of Celaph been made by Rivera and Eden, then Celaph comes out of the weeds and delivers wall posts asking myself and some others specific questions.

Was this a defensive reflex?

[Hamilton Brian]

The best way to think of me is as a classic court jester - saying things as jokes with a hint of truth to get you thinking.

Works great in person; through writing, not so much. Not just from you, particularly, but in general.

[Hamilton Brian]

Anyway, disingenuous for me to keep my vote on you. You say you've done all this work, and have put together a hypothesis of events. That is a town play. I'll move it off when I get back.

[President Eden]

Gonna reiterate that I don’t think rdr should be the backup plan in case Brian has the bomb

[rdrivera2005]

Tell me about celaph in red… Chaqa in blue I understand

The game I remember most Celaph as town was one we went to kilo together (I was Mafia) and he played an really great (I won but just because I have an almost perfect voting record, but he was so solid on his analysis I almost lost). This game I don't see that level of reasoning. I see some big wall posts with not much to add. I see a push on me that's based on nothing and that only appeared D2 as he was townreading me D1. I see a willingness to save Byx D1 and Snowy D2. This is more reasons to scumread him then I have to scumread Vecna to be honest.

I was easiest to townread when rdr was scum. Remarkable.

My push on you wasn't based on nothing. I justified my vote along with it.

More so, I was curious how rdr would respond because I prefer him to a ghug wagon. Jamie did a great post on rdr here:

To add to that, I feel like rdr's reaction to ghug's creation of the Vecna wagon was really inauthentic. On pg 177 he lists ghug and Vecna simply as two people that haven't impressed him alongside Bo and Snowy. The next page he votes Vecna saying that ghug could be bussing him before only later posting a scumread on Vecna, one with no connection to ghug.

If rdr had that legitimate scumread on Vecna before his vote, why didn't he speak to that scumread with his vote? And given that his scumread has nothing to do with ghug, why does he initially move to implicate ghug alongside Vecna? His initial vote reads as someone with an agenda to which he only later crafted a justification to fit.

##vote rdr

You're right that I scumread you on D2 way more than on D1. Guess what? You were scummier on D2 than you were on D1.

I was easiest to townread when rdr was scum. Remarkable.
/quote]

This is the kind of comment I really dislike. I think it's pretty obvious I was not saying it was easier to read you when I was Mafia.
I just said I remember a solid town performance that game even with a bad vote record, something I didn't see here.

The second part is fair, even with me not agreeing with it, I think my D2 was a lot better then D1 when I skipped a lot of pages due to a busy schedule.

[worcej]

It is really hard to work anything definitive out about the double voter without knowing who the Doctor is and what they did, but we aren’t pressed hard enough to warrant outing that right now. It’s worth noting that we could be at KILO tomorrow; although it would be 6-3 (assuming a miss today and no doc save tonight), the mafia could have the double voter and the town could have the no voter, making it 5-4 in practice. For this reason, I think everyone who has not peeked yet should peek as close to EON4 as you can afford, and everyone should out their info D5 unless I say otherwise below. Ideally you should peek right at xx:59 so that if you’re a PR and accidentally Oracle yourself, the mafia won’t know it and be able to act. (Sorry if this makes a mess for you Demon!) Our Doctor should probably also out EON4 with info. The Bleeder is self-confirming and survives a nightkill, so doesn’t need to out until D5.

The big thing that we need to ensure in the meantime is that nobody fucks up worcej’s vanity wagon. Like, messing with it is a scumclaim kind of “nobody fucks with worcej’s vanity wagon.” worcej still having the no-vote would essentially town clear him, and worcej having a vote would at least be interesting if nothing else… wouldn’t damn him per se, but would require some investigation. We don’t need to vote worcej out here because his situation is so close to self-sorting, so anybody attempting to interfere with that should be presumed to have bad intentions and dealt with accordingly. DO NOT FUCK THIS UP.

Contrary to Chaqa’s earlier conclusion, I’m not sure that Vecna needs to vanity wagon here, or that anyone else does. I’m open to being overridden on this if anyone can think of a good reason, though.

If I have a vote, this post right here will be why I suspect the shit out of Eden next day phase.

[worcej]

I think we need to kill Eden.

Noted. Cannot contribute meaningfully lol

[worcej]

I think HB might be town now.

What do you townread in HB?

I still struggle to see why anyone scum reads HB now. Everything presented is a mechanical reason.