M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

Holy fuck content.

So I don't like a ton of stuff Donny has done. He had that whole weird flash to no lynch to suicide vote line. At first I was on clueless town, then newb-scum, then too dumb to be scum but he's reaching DammDan levels of super overt.

Rdr has been lazy sitting on Sarah and almost everything was focused there, BUT, he hasn't posted in a while and I misread rdr all the damn time.

food is rubbing me the wrong way. He piled on Sarah and then jumped back onto fox the next time he was back.

I don't have the bias against Sarah many of you have, so I don't see scummy, mostly...disinterested? Lazy? Like I get Durga vibes here on playstyle. And most of this pressure is policy not scumreading, which breaks down to I don't care if I kill someone I think could be town.

My three up three down:
Brain, Kgrey, and Vecna town
food, Donny, and Marche scum

##Vote foodcoats

With 20 players to pick from, my guess is all six he listed here are town (2 are confirmed).

Is that based on how you play? Or how he plays? Or what? It certainly not how *I* play.

[BunnyGo]

So why would scum need a jailor and a doc

Would the scum doc save against lynches? That'd be weird...

Do we know the jailor is scum?

Is the 3P hunting scum at night? There's been 2 kills in one night, but it seems the flavor text chalked that up to Kgray visiting Vecna? But that's not confirmed.

Maybe *if* Vecna is town, they needed their doctor to coordinate a hit on Vecna.

Of those options (and going on what I remember from Worcej's posting of scum doc role) it seems only scum hunting 3P makes sense, an entire role just to counter one town role is "meh". Maybe there are multiple offensive town capabilities and they haven't activated yet?

The doctor wouldnt protect against my ability I think

Interesting. What is your claimed ability? Or have you no formally claimed anything?

[BunnyGo]

↑DemonRHK: "It feels weird to be back in mafia after my last few games were shit.

But like I said, I wanted to witness this from in..."

This was fun, Demon. Tell us more. Did you pre-write it? Did it flow from your pen like drool from a muse

darg speaks playfully to demon rhk
then speaks playfuly to chaqa, donny, jamie and more donny
talks business with xorxes all massclaim talk

Could you please quote in a way I can find the chain? Provide a link or use the quote function? You've already done the good work digging things up, but I kinda need to see things in context and I'd appreciate you saving me the time digging up again.

[BunnyGo]

<snip>

Maybe *if* Vecna is town, they needed their doctor to coordinate a hit on Vecna.

I'm not sure what your theory is here, could you elaborate? How does a doctor help kill a townie?

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

[BunnyGo]

oh and day 3: Jamie seems to be in the private chat with chaqa footcoats and emc

Confirmed. I was recruited to the "Neighbourhood Watch" QT by Chaqa but it is definitely not a cult.

"And you can trust me! No cult has KoolAid this delicious!"

[Jamiet99uk]

<snip>

Maybe *if* Vecna is town, they needed their doctor to coordinate a hit on Vecna.

I'm not sure what your theory is here, could you elaborate? How does a doctor help kill a townie?

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

He is claiming it has limited charges. Two, I believe. So he becomes vulnerable to NK after that.

But I get your logic about using the doctor to save the person sent to kill Vecna.

[rdrivera2005]

<snip>

Maybe *if* Vecna is town, they needed their doctor to coordinate a hit on Vecna.

I'm not sure what your theory is here, could you elaborate? How does a doctor help kill a townie?

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

That's why I was thinking he could be 3P, but the Flavor shows it was Kgray that visited him and I don't think it exists a 3P that just sit still and wait for people to visit him. And even if this is the case he will never claim this role. So either town or scum, and the way he told people to stay away from him looks town to me.

[BunnyGo]

<snip>


I'm not sure what your theory is here, could you elaborate? How does a doctor help kill a townie?

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

That's why I was thinking he could be 3P, but the Flavor shows it was Kgray that visited him and I don't think it exists a 3P that just sit still and wait for people to visit him. And even if this is the case he will never claim this role. So either town or scum, and the way he told people to stay away from him looks town to me.

I mean...basically 3P has to avoid a lynch in that case. And can passively NK anyone who comes. As I write it out, the idea tickles me for a role and playability.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Vecna: Would you like me to protect you tonight?

[Vecna]

I actually wasnt lying when I said I was out of charges.

Its safe for any town PR (or scum) to visit me going forward

[Vecna]

Beyond that, take whatever action you feel is smart but leave scum guessing.

If scum wanna waste a kill on me, lol @ them

[BunnyGo]

I actually wasnt lying when I said I was out of charges.

Its safe for any town PR (or scum) to visit me going forward

If several people visited you with kgray would only the first have been killed?

[Vecna]

<snip>


I'm not sure what your theory is here, could you elaborate? How does a doctor help kill a townie?

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

He is claiming it has limited charges. Two, I believe. So he becomes vulnerable to NK after that.

But I get your logic about using the doctor to save the person sent to kill Vecna.

Also, once again, a doctor would not protect from the ability the way my role pm is worden.

My ability fires first, and kills anyone before they can do their visit, so it should have killed whoever visits me before the doc can even protect them

[Vecna]

I actually wasnt lying when I said I was out of charges.

Its safe for any town PR (or scum) to visit me going forward

If several people visited you with kgray would only the first have been killed?

Anyone visiting me N1 or N2 wouldve died

[foodcoats]

with maf chat not yet open, why cant scum casually get to know each other ITT

Scumslip?

... I should read the setup.

After you read the setup why wasnt this a slip food?

Mostly because I didn't really feel like brainbomb was scum on my read and I'm more likely to put weight in the overall trend of someone's iso than specific idiosyncratic moments in time.

That said, Vecna made some powerful arguments about brainbomb being very inconsistent in a way that seemed unusual even for brainbomb. The problem is that it would have to now fit into Vecna's Grand Tinfoil Conspiracy and I'm not convinced that the scum team was designed as an ultra-super-combo instead of a balanced force that could survive losses.

[foodcoats]

chaqa is very flip floppy this game. He seems to play reactively to the flavor of the moment and acts like an authority at times. Whats weird is none of the people affiliated to chaq ever seem to question his authority

I suppose it's possible that Chaqa could be a scum Neighbourizer. I did find Chaqa scummy before I was added to the 'hood, and Chaqa's idea about not killing RHK was really pretty bananas, given we had no solid leads and no town consensus about anything other than "lynch RHK or brainbomb" and we had a cop scan saying RHK was guilty.

What do you think of Chaqa's play so far brainbomb?

[BunnyGo]

If what Vecna said is true, it’s not clear to me why Scum needed a doctor. If what Vecna said is false, then Vecna is scum (or 3P) and it is even less clear why Scum needed a doctor. Seems almost like a way to give them a power that doesn’t help them much.

[Jamiet99uk]

Well, Vecna isn't town cleared (could be scum gun nut; in terms of mechanics this makes more sense to me...it's not towny to kill random visitors, and not allow anyone to scan you...), but let's assume Vecna is town. How can scum kill Vecna at night? I have no knowledge of all these roles that brainbomb and others seem to, but it seems like they send an assassin, both Vecna and assassin die, then assassin is saved by DemonRHK. No? This is yet another reason the role Vecna is claiming seems scummy to me: he can't be NK'd?! That's crazy OP if town.

He is claiming it has limited charges. Two, I believe. So he becomes vulnerable to NK after that.

But I get your logic about using the doctor to save the person sent to kill Vecna.

Also, once again, a doctor would not protect from the ability the way my role pm is worden.

My ability fires first, and kills anyone before they can do their visit, so it should have killed whoever visits me before the doc can even protect them

I don't think you're right about this.

The general way that Mafia regards "kills" doesn't treat the Doctor like some kind of shield or barrier that prevents the kill going through. Docsaves are usually last in the order of operations.

A Doctor is not a bodyguard. The Doctor shows up *after* the gunshot, stabbing, explosion, whatever, and finds the bleeding victim at death's door, and administers just the right medical treatment to save them.

[foodcoats]

If what Vecna said is true, it’s not clear to me why Scum needed a doctor. If what Vecna said is false, then Vecna is scum (or 3P) and it is even less clear why Scum needed a doctor. Seems almost like a way to give them a power that doesn’t help them much.

Maybe there's a 3P NK that doesn't begin until NX.

[Jamiet99uk]

Night Ability adjudication is the following:
1. RB-type abilities
2. Protective-type abilities
3. Investigative-type abilities
4. Killing abilities

You see Vecna if you read this literally, Doctors are completely useless in this setup. If you read Worcej's Order of Operations in the most pedantic way possible, the doctor shows up first, finds the patient in good health, and goes away, then later the Mafia arrive and kill the formerly healthy person.

I don't think it's useful to assume that's how Doctors work, and in the same way, I don't think your assumption that your ability over-rides a Doctor save is necessarily correct either.