M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[rdrivera2005]

never [...] give you up!!!!

Ezio, would like to give you and opportunity to explain this. With no meta and only 4 posts to go on I'm open.

...but just in case I'm going to put it in... should have plenty of time to change it in the next 1 day and 4 hours.

##Vote Ezio

I wonder whether quoted text counts as posting.

People voting for Ezio for this are being ridiculous. Four of them have the excuse of being more or less newbs (I can't think of Flav as not a newb yet). What are rivera's and Jamiet's excuses?

I didn't know I need an excuse to vote in someone that have a (small) chance to be the hammerer. People can make mistakes (cof, Vapor, cof), even experienced one's, like Ezio.

[BobMcBob]

neva gunna giv u up!!!!

Okay what? I'm not sure what happened here. I'm not necessarily giving him scumlean, but what on earth is this. @Ezio, why? Jokepost phase was long over.

[BobMcBob]

umm idk how he would be playing a joke, but I dont trust it, he said the words, to the lynch he goes, everyone read the setup but vecna, no excuse, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that this same thing happened last game so its a mafia role on everyone's minds

Once again, it may just be disagreements in playstyle, but it feels like he's just pushing for an easy lynch here. @Everyone, can I get some clarification on flav's meta please?

[xorxes]

Im not a noob...I play mafia in real life, I play it here I've played it several times, what have I ever done to be a 'noob'? Disagreeing with you? Haha.

Not disagreeing, people disagree with me all the time. It's just that you seem to disagree about everything on principle, not because you have any actual reasons to.

I vaguely remember a game where we were scum together and you were a great scum because of your nonsense, but it was too long ago and I haven't decided if you are being fake or you really are like that yet.

[xorxes]

I’m wondering if there is a compelling reason Jamie just used the G-word neatly and clearly spelled, after a post setting it up with similar spelling so it stood out less.

Possibly he was told that the scottishism earlier wouldn’t count?

I think we should all just stop talking about people using or not using that word until an actual hammer happens. It's trivially easy with the bot to find out who used it after a hammer has happened.

Wrong, its actually very hard. Someone can say a word like this; You Pull!

And that would count as UP There's clever people here I'm sure there's some way to manipulate a sentence to get in those words all while hiding in plain sight, never take anything for granted

If that is acceptable, then concentarting on plain uses of the word makes even less sense. Deciding what counts or doesn't count as hidden text will be a nighmare for the GMs. And I should probably stop here.

[xorxes]

Flavius has felt pretty towny for the most part but at this point this all feels like overreactions

I haven't decided yet, but I agree about the overreactions. He just strongly disagrees with almost anything anyone says, and at least to me he does not seem to really believe in any of the opinions he so forcefully tries to put forward.

So then is this part of his meta (and it's context?) or has he shifted?

I don't really remember his town games, which I probably played with him before.

[xorxes]

I didn't know I need an excuse to vote in someone that have a (small) chance to be the hammerer. People can make mistakes (cof, Vapor, cof), even experienced one's, like Ezio.

The chance of Ezio being the Hammerer is probably less than anyone else's. Are you saying he not only was not paying attention to his role, but he also completely missed what happened to Vapor in the truncated game?

[Kitsune]

@kitsue: care to explain your scum/town impressions? Remember, I’m even dumber than everyone thinks so please elaborate. Don’t assume I understand anything.

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-simpsons-fir ... uErVSYGx8s

Kitsune's Interesting and highly subjective New Table of reads and the like

by popular (well, Bunny is popular) request!

BionicMole - No idea really. Hasn't yet made a meaningful post that I can see, but he's around and he's watching. Could be trying to fly below the radar but NAI for me. Null.

BobMcBob - I like him and I like his spreadsheet. I'm begging him to hold onto it until after the game is over so I can see it - I want to do something like this, but haven't worked out a good tool to use. Townpoints for early read list. Townlean.

Bozotheclown - As has been discussed, his play is consistent with my previous experience of Bozo as Town. Slightly wrongheaded and personally irritating to me, but I understand his reasoning so Townlean.

bo_sox48 - Dead. Was the Doctor, shot down early.

BunnyGo - Odd reads here. Not invisible, but nothing meaty either. I wasn't focused on him in D1 of M49 but this feels like !notmyTownbunny. Could be NAI with the new job, could be soft scum points. Null for now, but leaning scum unless I see more of my Bunny come out to help Town. One of two players who made M49 scumKit sweat the most, so I expect better.

damo666 - NAI really. Hasn't participated much, don't really know his previous meta. Has a valid reason for being away for a fair chunk of time. Null.

dargorygel - Unlike far too many seems interested in actually solving the puzzles here. Asks interesting questions and listens to the answers instead of shouting over them. One of two voters for Kit with a valid explained reason for doing so. Townlean.

Ezio - A total of 4 posts since gamestart. All four are brief, one may be pocketing, none seem reasoned. I do not know what was with his use of The Phrase That Pays. Scumlean, but wondering if he’s 3P rather than maf.

FlaviusAetius - He’s a hot mess, but I read him as town. ALL over the place and examining things with great enthusiasm in the absence of actual fact but is showing signs of investigating and the occasional meaty post and best of all appears to be reading what people say. Interesting play style, will watch with fascinated horror.

Jamiet99uk - Ugggg… Jamie lol. Aggressive, challenging, in our face, doesn’t always listen to reason. Even used the g-word, twice after the first time didn’t take. Despite all this and his occasional harsh reads on me, I’m going to townlean him because he’s focused laser-sharp on the wording of the roles and has been trying to keep that in our gaze. Also it matches his meta from M49.

KalelChase - Wasn’t really sure about him until his last beautiful analytical post. Major townpoints. My doubts about him in M49 were entirely manufactured, !ismytownKalel.

Kitsune - Me. I’m town, because I know I am. Duh.

Rdrivera2005 - Mmmm… nothing conclusive. Maybe soft-townlean, his reactions seem to be consistent with that but I’m not seeing much proactive attempts at investigation or solving. Null for now.

Squigs44 - Reads town for me. I’m resisting the urge to trust him more because he’s actually reading the posts I made and understands the points I was trying to make, but he’s not just doing that for me. Not quite ready to core him, but a strong townhero for me.

Temasek22 - Goes from voting for me without a clear explanation of why (other than seafood shenanigans) to stating that Ezio is most likely a clueless town and voting for him. Scumlean.

TrPrado - No strong reads here. Some conflicting impressions back and forth, support for different people. Probably a town based on the odds, but I’ll null-read him for now.

Vaporwave - Mmmmm… very soft townread. He’s looking around and trying to analyse things and see what other people are doing, but I don’t see that he’s gotten stuck in yet. Could be trying to float under the radar which in this context could mean a more useful town PR. No clear ideas on what it could be - and frankly if I did I wouldn’t post them.

Vecna - Who? What? Where? Null-read because… seriously what do I have to go on? But he’s definitely getting fingered scum if he doesn’t lift his game.

Worcej - Feels really really REALLY against claiming for some reason. Could be a personal vendetta but I’m lightly fingering him as 3P for now as the most vulnerable to that. If I’m right, he may draw a night kill.

Xorxes - Townlean not as active an investigator as some, but is providing commentary and insights and townpoints as he goes. Actually? @Xorxes, can we have your current reads please? Like all in one place rather than scattered between a dozen?

Yuuki - Has not posted. Who? What? Where? Null-read for now, may get mod-killed. If he doesn’t show up soon he’s getting a scum-finger though.

[xorxes]

@Kit, not making a list yet because it would be all wishy-washy, I'm not even sure who to vote for. I would be willing to bet that Ezio is not the Hammerer though. I will ##VOTE Jamiet because I think at least one Ezio voter has to be scum and he can't possibly believe that Ezio is the Hammerer.

[Squigs44]

The down side to Ezio posting this was that we have to have a majority of our votes on him for 12 hours, which it not productive for town at all

Why do we have to do that, exactly? Wouldn't you trade any mislynch hammerer Ezio could produce for a confirmed scum? And if he does produce a mislynch, wouldn't it be interesting to see if it's the first chance he gets or not? And there's other reasons why a D1 hammer is good for town.

Because it would be really really stupid if Ezio actually was the hammerer and we let him hammer on someone else when mechanically there is no drawback to stacking the votes on him for only 12 hours. If he's not the hammer dude we can switch off later and if he is somehow the hammer dude then he dies today without a mislynch instead of tomorrow with someone getting mislynched.

[BionicMole]

I just wanted to say that the Mafia lingo eerily reminds me of "newspeak" from the book 1984.

[Squigs44]

@Kit- on your reads:

What about Kalels post that you liked so much was alignment indicative. To me it looked like he just summarized what happened, which, while helpful, isn't really alignment indicative.

Also, can you expound on your TrPrado read? You say he has some good and some bad things if I read that right? What do you find good and bad specifically? Also, what did you mean by odds are he's town?

[BunnyGo]

@Kit

Thank you for that detailed and exhaustive explanation. I'm amazed to say that I disagree with many (or most) of the reads, and the reads I don't disagree with I disagree with every reason. This is earlyish D1--we're not problem solving; we're barely looking for patterns. I learned in M49 that I was trying too hard too early. I also wasn't following my gut enough.

When I iso'd people this early, there was nothing. When I crumb searched, I was on a completely different wavelength than everyone else. So sit back kit, relax, and enjoy the fact you drew scum again.

[BunnyGo]

Sorry, @Kit, that was too harsh. I was asking for your reads. And they were definitely honest and you put a lot of thought into them. I just feel like I got burned last game with a lot of that reasoning.

[Kitsune]

@Kit- on your reads:

What about Kalels post that you liked so much was alignment indicative. To me it looked like he just summarized what happened, which, while helpful, isn't really alignment indicative.

That's it really. I'm certainly not coring him, but I saw him starting to put together his summaries of what happened right after I was trying to pick an alignment out of his previous posts. Other than the last post I'd null him, but that summary comes out of his playstyle in the game I've shared with him so I was happy to see it and gave him townpoints as a result.

I did say "subjective" - it's right there in the header.

Also, can you expound on your TrPrado read? You say he has some good and some bad things if I read that right? What do you find good and bad specifically? Also, what did you mean by odds are he's town?

Odds are he's town because we have more town than NotTown (12-8 currently). I don't have time (or interest) to run a proper ISO on him right now as I do have non-Mafia things which are increasingly overdue today but my gist is that most of his posts are pretty NAI. Quoting lines of the song with Jamie feels very mildly scummy (which he said he did here: viewtopic.php?p=110188#p110188 although I can't find this). Calling Jamie out on his 'accidental?' g-word feels very mildly towny.

Nothing decisive enough for me to class him either way.

[Squigs44]

Sorry, @Kit, that was too harsh. I was asking for your reads. And they were definitely honest and you put a lot of thought into them. I just feel like I got burned last game with a lot of that reasoning.

Didn't you just call Kit scum? Now you're saying Kits reads are honest? You do realize mafia cant give honest reads?

[Kitsune]

Sorry, @Kit, that was too harsh. I was asking for your reads. And they were definitely honest and you put a lot of thought into them. I just feel like I got burned last game with a lot of that reasoning.

They're super subjective and took way too much time that I didn't have right now.

But you did ask for them and then reminded me you wanted them.

Am I comfortable on taking any of this to the vote? Not really. But it's my early impressions that I'll try to build on as the game went on.

Whether anyone chooses to believe me or not I am Town and I don't have the luxury of going through the motion of hunting without really caring if I find anything. I/we need to find scum or we'll rack up another Mafia win on the forums, and I have no experience in doing that without insider information.

Still building my methods.

And since I have to vote for someone or I'm not giving any useful information to the other hunters, I'm voting Tem as the mildly scummiest of my mild scumleans.

[BunnyGo]

Also, are people really not going to get into the meme stuff? I mean, we could almost be having whole conversations with just memes. I think we're losing a lot of value here.

So...if that's not going to happen, then I really hope the flavor at EOD captures the failure of our vig. I thought they did a good job last game with Iron Man's double shot. Maybe we could have something like this:

https://me.me/i/gun-safety-tip-of-the-d ... f-15726484

I dunno, I'm sure the moderators are on it--they've been doing a great job.

[BunnyGo]

Sorry, @Kit, that was too harsh. I was asking for your reads. And they were definitely honest and you put a lot of thought into them. I just feel like I got burned last game with a lot of that reasoning.

Didn't you just call Kit scum? Now you're saying Kits reads are honest? You do realize mafia cant give honest reads?

They absolutely can. They may know what the truth is, and they may or may not say the truth, but they can give honest reasons for the conclusions they are drawing. Say I *knew* you weren't scum (NOTE: THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL) but I wanted to read you as scum, I'm sure I could find some honest reasons to choose to read you that way.

Honest doesn't mean true. It's just how you spin it.

[BunnyGo]

Sorry, @Kit, that was too harsh. I was asking for your reads. And they were definitely honest and you put a lot of thought into them. I just feel like I got burned last game with a lot of that reasoning.

They're super subjective and took way too much time that I didn't have right now.

But you did ask for them and then reminded me you wanted them.

Am I comfortable on taking any of this to the vote? Not really. But it's my early impressions that I'll try to build on as the game went on.

Whether anyone chooses to believe me or not I am Town and I don't have the luxury of going through the motion of hunting without really caring if I find anything. I/we need to find scum or we'll rack up another Mafia win on the forums, and I have no experience in doing that without insider information.

Still building my methods.

And since I have to vote for someone or I'm not giving any useful information to the other hunters, I'm voting Tem as the mildly scummiest of my mild scumleans.

Yup, all good for now. That's why I apologized for my first gut reaction.