Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Durga]

I think she’s* probably tired of your shtick. Can’t say I don’t feel the same.

thx man, never thought you'd be my white knight

this was @ chippe

[TrPrado]

You’re so weird Prado. Why are you coaching me on how to push you?

If you’re town then it’s in town’s best interest for you to have gone through with what I said. If you’re scum it’s also in town’s best interest to make sure you’re not following Tom’s footsteps.

Post some reads and ask some people questions about their reads. You’re doing this bizarre bit like an umpire where you give impartial judgments on how people are arguing but you’re ultimately just standing there and not advancing either team’s win condition. It’s like watching a shortstop call balls and strikes. Less coaching more doing please

Regarding reads. I’ve posted a couple, but more through ones I’d rather wait until everyone has posted before I really try sorting it out. Regarding behavior, I think a lot more can be puzzled out than what other people’s reads are. Those particular questions I presume someone else will ask, and if they don’t then I’ll come back to them when I think it’s important.

[Carl Tuckerson]

If you think any aspect of your “proving yourself to be VT” is illegal, PM the mods and ask them.
[...]
If they say it’s illegal then you are to report back telling us they said it was illegal and that you are dropping your claim that you can prove yourself VT.

I didn’t say “post the correspondence from the GM proving what you claim.” What I meant is, if any aspect of proving yourself to be VT would involve breaking the rules, you are to state that you cannot prove you are VT within the confines of the rules and to drop it.
It sounds to me that you asked the mods, and the mods said you cannot explain how this proves you are VT within the confines of the rules.
Thus, you should first tell me point-blank that this is the case, then drop this matter completely, stop referring to it, and play the game as if the information didn’t exist. Then I (and I assume Durga and others) will vote for other players.

If I am wrong, and you can explain how this proves you are VT within the confines of the rules, then my previous statement remains and I will continue voting for you until you spill the beans.

[et]

Chip.
Please stop talking about cheating.
And let's find Scums.
If you don't so, townies are hard to win.

[Squigs44]

Guys I originally assumed that ChippeRock made up the absolute proof thing as a way to ensure getting townread, but having six votes on him and still pushing the issue doesn't line up with that at all... Selfish squigs still kinda wants to policy lynch him for being so against the spirit of the game and being anti-town, but rational Squigs is saying that Occam's razor he is in fact telling the truth about being a VT.

[Squigs44]

##unvote

Chippe - you have commented on like three people. Is there anyone else you have a read on?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Guys I originally assumed that ChippeRock made up the absolute proof thing as a way to ensure getting townread, but having six votes on him and still pushing the issue doesn't line up with that at all... Selfish squigs still kinda wants to policy lynch him for being so against the spirit of the game and being anti-town, but rational Squigs is saying that Occam's razor he is in fact telling the truth about being a VT.

We all know he’s town, at this point it’s about punishing bad behavior. He’s either playing against his win condition or he’s cheating. Neither should be permitted.

Where does this leave you voting? Still interested in Flavius?

[ChippeRock]

Chip.
Please stop talking about cheating.
And let's find Scums.
If you don't so, townies are hard to win.

Not cheating.

[et]

Chip.
Please stop talking about cheating.
And let's find Scums.
If you don't so, townies are hard to win.

Not cheating.

Yes. I trust you.
And I think almost all players are same.
You talked about that enough.
So, please stop and let's find scums.

[Squigs44]

FWIW I am like 95% sure I know what Chippe is referring to in how he clears himself. I see how he thinks he is clearing himself with his hint, and how him being less vague would break rules, but tbh that hint and post could be given by any role, so it doesn't definitively clear him. He has not broken any rules that I can see, and he has not cleared himself from what I can see.

[ChippeRock]

If you think any aspect of your “proving yourself to be VT” is illegal, PM the mods and ask them.
[...]
If they say it’s illegal then you are to report back telling us they said it was illegal and that you are dropping your claim that you can prove yourself VT.

I didn’t say “post the correspondence from the GM proving what you claim.” What I meant is, if any aspect of proving yourself to be VT would involve breaking the rules, you are to state that you cannot prove you are VT within the confines of the rules and to drop it.
It sounds to me that you asked the mods, and the mods said you cannot explain how this proves you are VT within the confines of the rules.
Thus, you should first tell me point-blank that this is the case, then drop this matter completely, stop referring to it, and play the game as if the information didn’t exist. Then I (and I assume Durga and others) will vote for other players.

If I am wrong, and you can explain how this proves you are VT within the confines of the rules, then my previous statement remains and I will continue voting for you until you spill the beans.

Look, first thing I did was PM the GM - since there wasn't a rule to address what I wanted to post. I modified my original post to his liking, and posted it. But, I can not imply in any way that the specific post is a certain something (which has to be known in order for the proof to reveal itself). I have since made several posts to try getting you guys to think about why I made those posts and discover, independently (on your own), that this specific post is that certain something without implying in any way that this specific post is a certain something.

[ChippeRock]

FWIW I am like 95% sure I know what Chippe is referring to in how he clears himself. I see how he thinks he is clearing himself with his hint, and how him being less vague would break rules, but tbh that hint and post could be given by any role, so it doesn't definitively clear him. He has not broken any rules that I can see, and he has not cleared himself from what I can see.

I don't know what post you've come upon on nor do I know which hint you think you've found, but perhaps you should closely compare the two if you think you know what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should share with everybody else what you think I'm referring to if you're 95% confident.

[Squigs44]

>be me
>check game. 7 pages already. rockin.
>lost last game to emc
>emc hasn't voted yet.
>##vote e.m.c.

This could be fake, but I town read Teacon for this.

You are townreading him for not knowing emc is in the game? How is that AI?

[TrPrado]

So in other words you’re making it up. Dope.

Absolutely, I'm actually scum who was trying to deliberately get 6 votes against me just for kicks.

That's probably the best explanation behind my actions if we assume I made it up.

Perhaps you should think about how ridiculous what you're stating sounds before you make a post.

I’m trying to relax. Laying in bed, reading a book, with a cat laying on my stomach. I don’t think I have the energy to elaborate how and why the only options are you lying or simply being wrong.

[Squigs44]

FWIW I am like 95% sure I know what Chippe is referring to in how he clears himself. I see how he thinks he is clearing himself with his hint, and how him being less vague would break rules, but tbh that hint and post could be given by any role, so it doesn't definitively clear him. He has not broken any rules that I can see, and he has not cleared himself from what I can see.

I don't know what post you've come upon on nor do I know which hint you think you've found, but perhaps you should closely compare the two if you think you know what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should share with everybody else what you think I'm referring to if you're 95% confident.

After this post my confidence level is 98% now. I am not going to share what I think it is for the same reason you are not sharing what it is - you should not be allowed to game mechanics in that way. What you are doing is against the spirit of the game, and if you do not stop, then I will put my vote back on you so that we can start enjoying the game again.

[Squigs44]

page11

The main thing is that Flav was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole.

@squigs - Okay so... does that same logic apply to your gut assignment of a read to someone's first post? I'm not trying to defend flav here. I'm wondering how gut-first-post-reading

I kinda already addressed this in my posts. My first-post-reads are looking at an individual post, yes. I am not going to rely on my first-post-reads to play the game, it was just an exercise.

Flavius' reads are different because he:
A) Laid out criteria which went beyond the first post.
B) Posted all of his reads in one place rather than post by post.

Also, I am not scumreading Flavius because of this, as I have said multiple times. I am scumreading him for being abnormally defensive and conforming to what other people think of him.

[ChippeRock]

FWIW I am like 95% sure I know what Chippe is referring to in how he clears himself. I see how he thinks he is clearing himself with his hint, and how him being less vague would break rules, but tbh that hint and post could be given by any role, so it doesn't definitively clear him. He has not broken any rules that I can see, and he has not cleared himself from what I can see.

I don't know what post you've come upon on nor do I know which hint you think you've found, but perhaps you should closely compare the two if you think you know what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should share with everybody else what you think I'm referring to if you're 95% confident.

After this post my confidence level is 98% now. I am not going to share what I think it is for the same reason you are not sharing what it is - you should not be allowed to game mechanics in that way. What you are doing is against the spirit of the game, and if you do not stop, then I will put my vote back on you so that we can start enjoying the game again.

I am not sharing it because I've been told I can't. He never mentioned other players though. Moderating saying something because you think it's against the spirit of the game is not your job, that's why Rule #6 exists, so that the GM of the game can make that decision for himself. Why don't you PM him with what you would say, and get the green light from him.

6. This is a catch-all rule intended to preserve the spirit of the game. If you are considering saying or doing something that may be against the spirit of the game, message the GM about it before saying/doing it and the GM will let you know whether it is allowed or not.

[Durga]

FWIW I am like 95% sure I know what Chippe is referring to in how he clears himself. I see how he thinks he is clearing himself with his hint, and how him being less vague would break rules, but tbh that hint and post could be given by any role, so it doesn't definitively clear him. He has not broken any rules that I can see, and he has not cleared himself from what I can see.

I don't know what post you've come upon on nor do I know which hint you think you've found, but perhaps you should closely compare the two if you think you know what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should share with everybody else what you think I'm referring to if you're 95% confident.

After this post my confidence level is 98% now. I am not going to share what I think it is for the same reason you are not sharing what it is - you should not be allowed to game mechanics in that way. What you are doing is against the spirit of the game, and if you do not stop, then I will put my vote back on you so that we can start enjoying the game again.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and he should be mod killed for this. It's too late now

[Durga]

You've literally been told it's against the rules to say it and yet you continue alluding to it?? Jfc do you know how games work?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Fine, I’m going to state information about the PM that I received and force you to cough it up. I’m very close to replacing out because I don’t want to play a game that becomes dominated by gaming the roles in a way that clearly violates the spirit of the rules, so I frankly don’t care if I accidentally cross a line by stumbling into your information.

I received the exact text that worcej posted for the VT in the opening post. There is literally zero deviation between the text posted and the PM that I received. Every single character is the exact same that you see in the opening post.
There is no possible way, just from me saying that, that you can know that I truly am a VT and not just making it up, because there is no deviation from the OP. There is no difference between my role PM and the OP, so there is no difference between me truly claiming the exact text of my role PM and me lying about it.
There is also no difference between the role PM you quoted and the role PM in the OP or my role PM. Meaning that there is no way I can know just from you quoting “your role PM” that you actually did so, as opposed to lying about it and quoting the OP, which is identical to my VT PM and any other VT PM and thus what you are claiming.

If there is some obvious defect in your specific PM, then it is clearly against the plain reading of the rules for you to have engaged in this line of conversation, meaning that you probably lied about contacting the mods because it’s difficult to believe they would allow this line of reasoning because of a clerical error, meaning that you really should just be kicked from the game and not be allowed to play anymore.

The only other alternative that I can figure out, if your PM is not defective, is that you are mistaken as to this proof, because there is no possible proof otherwise. In which case, I will probably policy lynch you for taking all the fun out of this game by being an idiot.