M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[ghug]

Kgray if you think Maniac only makes sense as traitor why is that your target today

Because he's my strongest scumread by far.

@Flum, what do you think is inconsistent about voting for a traitor read?

[kgray]

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

um Flum, there is only one scum game played over there.

How does your play change when you're scum, Donny?

You don't care that Flum implied he read through multiple games where Donny was scum and yet he's only played one?

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 6.2

e.m.c^42 (2) - ghug, Hellenic Riot
Nanook (2) - seth24c, Maniac
Maniac (1) - kgray
seth24c (1) - bozotheclown

A little under 23.5 hours now remains and NOBODY is set to be removed.

[ghug]

um Flum, there is only one scum game played over there.

How does your play change when you're scum, Donny?

You don't care that Flum implied he read through multiple games where Donny was scum and yet he's only played one?

I don't see that implication. He just said he'd read multiple games.

[Nanook]

##vote Seth

[bozotheclown]

Fluminator and ghug were the second and third vote for summit early D1, both votes apparently for summit having his online status hidden. Fluminator and ghug also both moved their vote off of summit 2 different times D1. Both times Fluminator moved his vote off of summit, summit was ahead by one vote, and both times Fluminator did not vote for summit's top counter wagon, so that he left summit tied instead of putting his counter wagon ahead. ghug did the same thing the second time he moved his vote off of summit, the first time summit was ahead by 2 votes.
---
The bottom line is I would not rules out Donny, seth, and Nanook, with Maniac as the traitor. However, chances are someone bussed summit D1, and Fluminator and ghug are the most likely bussers.

It seems like you're saying ghug and Flum are the most likely D1 bussers for similar reasons, but their initial votes for summit were pretty different. Flum did encourage the summit wagon for the joke reason that his status was invisible, but he followed up with a legitimate reason based on summit's reaction. Other people may or may not have figured out that summit was playing his scum meta, so Flum pointing out his awkwardness and making his vote for summit legitimate seems less likely to come from summit's teammate than ghug's joining Flum on summit as a joke vote.

I think that is a good point, but I am not convinced that summit's reaction was bad enough to warrant Fluminator's response:

##Vote Summit
His thing is set to invisible. Only scum do that.
Source: I did that as scum

I believe you were visible in the last game.

##End

Summit is scum
If he responded to the vote with an "I'm always invisible" I probably would have bought it.
But his response was to stay low and awkward and weakly accuse me of lying about something I did last game.

Also, both times Fluminator moved his vote off of summit, it resulted in summit being tied with a second wagon while Fluminator had voted for a third wagon. It is possible he wanted to encourage other wagons without being responsible for putting them in the lead.

[Fluminator]

If you think someone can only be a traitor, it makes sense to hunt for other scum first in case one flips traitor on the way.
I guess it makes sense if you want the associative tells but Maniac is king of wifom.

[kgray]

How does your play change when you're scum, Donny?

You don't care that Flum implied he read through multiple games where Donny was scum and yet he's only played one?

I don't see that implication. He just said he'd read multiple games.

Oh, so I had originally misinterpreted "mafia games" as "scum games" and not "the-game-of-mafia games." I think the underlined below implies multiple scum games, but this is not nearly as convincing now that I understand the first sentence.

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

[kgray]

If you think someone can only be a traitor, it makes sense to hunt for other scum first in case one flips traitor on the way.
I guess it makes sense if you want the associative tells but Maniac is king of wifom.

I honestly believe that it is more likely that Maniac is non-traitor scum than that he's town.

[Fluminator]

Can you requote your maniac case? It's hard on phone to find stuff

[kgray]

Can you requote your maniac case? It's hard on phone to find stuff

In addition to his D1/N1 potential traitor signaling and him not voting for summit D1, this is the bulk of it:

##vote Maniac

His thought progression this game makes ZERO sense, especially when you look at it in context of his D4 voting.

Here are his Vecna reads:

D2 Maniac townread Vecna for the timing of his summit vote and said it would take convincing for him to vote for Vecna. His "scumread" of Vecna came on D4 from what he apparently thought was a scumslip by Vecna in this exchange:

If I believed in scum slips, this would be a good one

I believe in scumslips ##vote Vecna

although Maniac never explained why he thought Vecna scumslipped. He then voted for damo before Tom's gunshot EOD but said he'd switch to Vecna if that became a thing - again, with the only explanation of him changing from townreading Vecna to voting him being a "scumslip" that didn't happen.

He later includes Vecna in a list of people with sketchy D1 voting and a claim that Vecna wasn't bussing, even though he'd already townread Vecna *because* of his D1 voting. Just compare this post with this post.

Now, let's look at Maniac's read of flash:

In his EoD1 readslist, all he says about flash is that there's "not enough info." D2 he votes flash "for reasons." Begining of D4 he votes flash here because he thinks flash might be scum, and ends up back on flash's wagon with 14 minutes left.

BUT: At 6 minutes left, he changes from flash to Vecna, which puts Vecna in the lead, and then he rallies (or tries to rally) people to get on Vecna last-minute. There's literally no explanation of why he thought Vecna was scum OR why he thought flash is town.

Oh, and as soon as Vecna flips town he's suddenly okay with voting flash again.

[ghug]

If you think someone can only be a traitor, it makes sense to hunt for other scum first in case one flips traitor on the way.
I guess it makes sense if you want the associative tells but Maniac is king of wifom.

But also like we're a day from KILO and and we should probably just be trying to kill anyone we're confident is scum.

Care to comment on the "scum games" thing?

[Fluminator]

Sample size of 1 of his scum games.
?

[Durga]

Let's kill flum because he's the reason I'm dropping the ball on this game

[Durga]

Also my social life. I'm dropping the ball on that too.

[ghug]

Hi Vecna

[bo_sox48]

VOTE COUNT 6.3

e.m.c^42 (2) - ghug, Hellenic Riot
Nanook (2) - seth24c, Maniac
seth24c (2) - bozotheclown, Nanook
Maniac (1) - kgray

NOBODY is set to trip over their shoelaces and fall off a cliff.

There are ~20.5 hours remaining in the phase.

[ghug]

Hi teacon7

[ghug]

Next two people to post, tell me how that vote count fits into your current picture of the game.

Non voters, for your convenience:
Donny Dude
Durga
Fluminator
e.m.c^42
Nanook

[Donny Dude]

I will give this a shot.
Currently, it confirms for me that seth is town with two scumreads voting for him. Although nanook is a scumread, he has one tr and one sr. And emc/moscow which one tr and one neutral. Maniac with just a tr on him.
This vc currently has two of my scumreads with one townread.
I think this says that we have scum being voted for.