M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[kgray]

It's also worth noting that, like the reaction to Chaqa''s claim, he was displaying positive emotion to a thing that had an immediately negative impact on town. Obviously he wasn't openly reveling in the negatives specifically, but it's not like that sort of emotion wouldn't make sense coming from scum in those moments.

Right, but don't you think scum would be a lot more likely to be careful about showing those emotions? They're going to be much more hesitant to react positively to anti-town behavior than town are.

Given how Scum-Moscow got destroyed in the first attempt of this game for his caution and trying to keep himself in check, do you not think that it's possible he actively tried to change the way he played this time?

Yeah, it's definitely possible. If he's scum he certainly did a great job at changing his meta.

[ghug]

I didn't like his reaction to that at all, though. At the time he called it a great move on Tom's part, and then a few hours later was saying we should disregarding Seth's reactions. I just don't see how it can be both: It's either a great reaction test, or it's a waste of time. His explanation that it was a Great Waste of Time just didn't stack up to me.

It's also worth noting that, like the reaction to Chaqa''s claim, he was displaying positive emotion to a thing that had an immediately negative impact on town. Obviously he wasn't openly reveling in the negatives specifically, but it's not like that sort of emotion wouldn't make sense coming from scum in those moments.

Right, but don't you think scum would be a lot more likely to be careful about showing those emotions? They're going to be much more hesitant to react positively to anti-town behavior than town are.

I get the argument, as I've said, and I think with the Tom one it's maybe even straight NAI, because Tom's play there was just fun. I think faking genuine townie emotion in this game is really difficult, but I also think it gets easier if you have legitimate emotion of your own to draw on, even if you're obscuring what it is you're excited or upset about , so I'm not inclined to townread the emoscow slot for it in those cases.

[ghug]

Also, if you look at the gunshot reaction test through the prism of Moscow & Seth being scum together, then that immediate reaction could be read into as Moscow being ready to jump in and claim credit for Seth flipping scum by pointing out his earlier tunnel - And the fact that he went completely silent when Damo died instead being him having to pull the reigns on that plan.

This makes some sense, but I struggle with the strategy of picking scum and then justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind. It's too much confirmation bias for me. Also he did say he was putting off having dinner for Tom's "EOD" so I also believe that he'd just leave.

Aren't you picking town and justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind?

Also what sort of monster eats dinner at 6?

[Hellenic Riot]

Also, if you look at the gunshot reaction test through the prism of Moscow & Seth being scum together, then that immediate reaction could be read into as Moscow being ready to jump in and claim credit for Seth flipping scum by pointing out his earlier tunnel - And the fact that he went completely silent when Damo died instead being him having to pull the reigns on that plan.

This makes some sense, but I struggle with the strategy of picking scum and then justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind. It's too much confirmation bias for me. Also he did say he was putting off having dinner for Tom's "EOD" so I also believe that he'd just leave.

I'm not exactly saying he's scum *because* of that - I'm just pointing out that that reaction can be read into in different ways depending on their alignment, so it certainly isn't some big towntell in my eyes.

[kgray]

Also, if you look at the gunshot reaction test through the prism of Moscow & Seth being scum together, then that immediate reaction could be read into as Moscow being ready to jump in and claim credit for Seth flipping scum by pointing out his earlier tunnel - And the fact that he went completely silent when Damo died instead being him having to pull the reigns on that plan.

This makes some sense, but I struggle with the strategy of picking scum and then justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind. It's too much confirmation bias for me. Also he did say he was putting off having dinner for Tom's "EOD" so I also believe that he'd just leave.

Aren't you picking town and justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind?

Also what sort of monster eats dinner at 6?

(1) I'm not saying he's town and (2) I think those things are town-indicative on the surface. If you have to go layers deeper to find them scum indicative, I think that's more justifying.

I'm not trying to change yours or HR's minds about him, I'm just pointing out what I think are valid reasons to question that read.

[ghug]

This makes some sense, but I struggle with the strategy of picking scum and then justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind. It's too much confirmation bias for me. Also he did say he was putting off having dinner for Tom's "EOD" so I also believe that he'd just leave.

Aren't you picking town and justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind?

Also what sort of monster eats dinner at 6?

(1) I'm not saying he's town and (2) I think those things are town-indicative on the surface. If you have to go layers deeper to find them scum indicative, I think that's more justifying.

I'm not trying to change yours or HR's minds about him, I'm just pointing out what I think are valid reasons to question that read.

Why aren't you trying to change our minds?

[ghug]

And who are Maniac's teammates?

Do you think he's definitely the traitor? Have they recruited him?

[Hellenic Riot]

If you think Maniac is scum, why do you think he cast the deciding vote for Flash over Moscow? Were the scum that keen to get Flash out of the way? Why didn't they want to keep the guy that was being tunnelled by multiple people around if they could?

[ghug]

If you think Maniac is scum, why do you think he cast the deciding vote for Flash over Moscow? Were the scum that keen to get Flash out of the way? Why didn't they want to keep the guy that was being tunnelled by multiple people around if they could?

Since you took specific offense to your play being called tunneling, who do you think was tunneling flash as opposed to just voting for him?

Do you think Maniac isn't scum?

[Fluminator]

At a work conference all day today but I have tomorrow off thankgiving yeet

[Hellenic Riot]

If you think Maniac is scum, why do you think he cast the deciding vote for Flash over Moscow? Were the scum that keen to get Flash out of the way? Why didn't they want to keep the guy that was being tunnelled by multiple people around if they could?

Since you took specific offense to your play being called tunneling, who do you think was tunneling flash as opposed to just voting for him?

Do you think Maniac isn't scum?

I already pointed out that Donny & Flum had voted him for the equivalent of three EoD's without voting for anyone else whatsoever in between. The fact that Flum signalled he was willing to get Moscow and then stayed on Flash really stunk to me, too.

I do lean scum on Maniac - Much more so than on Bozo. If I had to theorise a scumteam right now, I'd go with EMCFleet, Seth, Maniac, and one of Flum/Donny.

[Fluminator]

Kgray if you think Maniac only makes sense as traitor why is that your target today

[Fluminator]

I had that thought process, but I've also looked back and Donny has really spent the last few days throwing shade at multiple people without ever moving his vote off Flash, and it looks a lot like he's been adding fuel to fires that are ongoing whilst ensuring he was never on them (Vecna & Worcej were both being widely scumread at the time he made snarky posts about them, and the same's true of Nanook & Bozo, though we don't know their alignment so that's harder to read into).

I'm also concerned that because Donny's scum performance was so awful last time he played, we've set the bar extremely low and he's been able to get away under the radar as a result.

Do you think he's calculated enough to effectively fan fires to get miskills without dirtying his hands?

Given he's apparently a regular player on MafiaScum, I'd imagine he has at least some experience with that strategy

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

[Donny Dude]

Do you think he's calculated enough to effectively fan fires to get miskills without dirtying his hands?

Given he's apparently a regular player on MafiaScum, I'd imagine he has at least some experience with that strategy

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

um Flum, there is only one scum game played over there.

[ghug]

Given he's apparently a regular player on MafiaScum, I'd imagine he has at least some experience with that strategy

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

um Flum, there is only one scum game played over there.

How does your play change when you're scum, Donny?

[Donny Dude]

I already said this but I skimmed his mafia games on MS and I didn't see a huge difference in scum games. Not the shy scared player at least. I should look at them more closely before I get banned from that site. (In a debate about whether otherkins should be encouraged and I'll likely be banned before long)

um Flum, there is only one scum game played over there.

How does your play change when you're scum, Donny?

You are making me answer from the grand base of two games one here and one over there.
The one over at mafiascum I got killed d1 for making a very crap case on an obv town and not really backing up anything. Well the game here you can look at, but I also tend to lurk or have issues engaging with the thread naturally. Also, am terrible at fabricating reads as I recall. I think I show a more guarded thought process.

[kgray]

Aren't you picking town and justifying their interactions with that assumption in mind?

Also what sort of monster eats dinner at 6?

(1) I'm not saying he's town and (2) I think those things are town-indicative on the surface. If you have to go layers deeper to find them scum indicative, I think that's more justifying.

I'm not trying to change yours or HR's minds about him, I'm just pointing out what I think are valid reasons to question that read.

Why aren't you trying to change our minds?

Because I'm not confident about him being town. I do think there are better options and I think it's worth pointing out when I see things differently, but he could definitely be scum.

[kgray]

And who are Maniac's teammates?

Do you think he's definitely the traitor? Have they recruited him?

I still need to go through who makes sense on a team together. I think Donny is likely scum, seth generally reads towny to me but I'm buying bozo's case about his D1 voting (I also thought he seemed to be avoiding summit D1) and yet I don't really trust bozo completely either. I don't townread Durga at all which makes me suspicious.

I'm having a hard time figuring out the worcej NK. I don't think it's great to give in to NK wifom, but since he was one of 5 people talking at night (along with Flum/Durga/Nanook/emc) it makes me think scum are going for guaranteed non-jailed people, and I can't help but question why it was him over Flum and Durga.

I think seth/Nanook could be partners but they don't make a lot of sense with Maniac (especially seth), and moscow/emc does make sense as Maniac's teammate (along with bozo). And I also think Durga fits on a Maniac scumteam.

Maniac could be non-traitor scum but it's pretty unlikely based on summit's claim. If he is the traitor and they haven't recruited him, they're idiots.

[kgray]

If you think Maniac is scum, why do you think he cast the deciding vote for Flash over Moscow? Were the scum that keen to get Flash out of the way? Why didn't they want to keep the guy that was being tunnelled by multiple people around if they could?

Yeah, that's a good point. Playing devil's advocate I guess because if it was town v town then it didn't really matter who died, and since Moscow was getting more recent scumreads maybe Maniac thought he was at least as likely to be a future miskill as flash. Or, maybe Maniac thought that Moscow would be modkilled and they could get rid of two townies.

[kgray]

Kgray if you think Maniac only makes sense as traitor why is that your target today

Because he's my strongest scumread by far.