M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[dargorygel]

Consolidation is important today. Scum have a large block that they can suddenly at EoD jump on. Unless we have unity.

I townread kgray.
But there is enough sus there (mostly as chaqa points out, in the vote analysis) that I would join the bandwagon rather than leave us vulnerable to a scumblock move.

[BunnyGo]

Would you be truely surprised that most of the other people are probably thinking that you two have just been hardcore bussing eachother?

Loads of other people keep flipping their opinion all the time, the two of you have been path-dependent projectiles for quite some time now

I wouldn't be surprised, no. It's a good strategy for kgray to adopt after I caught her, because now even if we catch her, you all will likely come at me later on and get scum another mis-kill.

yes, if you are town I dont see us ever winning this

I think that's only because you won't look at Dargo. You really need to take a hard look.

[Vecna]

I havent shouted anything down Bunny. I have given my own reasoning. I have not tried to convince a single other soul of me being correct. I did that for Seth, but I have not attacked anyone over scumreading Darg. Ive answered questions when asked about it.

I could be wrong. Im usually wrong about one townread somewhere every game. Everyone is responsible for their own vote though, and I just have not seen anything convincing enough to make me think im off here.

[dargorygel]

I would hardly say I was on the chopping block. There was a movent to save ghug, but I don't see that people strongly scumread me.

I got called in to a government class today, to teach high schoolers some US Constitution stuff. It is exciting and daunting.

I will be checking when I have opportunity.

Unity, town.

[BunnyGo]

I wouldn't be surprised, no. It's a good strategy for kgray to adopt after I caught her, because now even if we catch her, you all will likely come at me later on and get scum another mis-kill.

yes, if you are town I dont see us ever winning this

I think that's only because you won't look at Dargo. You really need to take a hard look.

You protecting him from having a wagon forming is the only thing scummy about you. But it's mighty suspicious.

[Chaqa]

FWIW - I think no kill today is reasonable, but it does make it a bit harder to guarantee scum doesn't influence the vote.

If we're doing it, we need to decide ahead of time who we vote for the following day, so that no one can manipulate it

[BunnyGo]

FWIW - I think no kill today is reasonable, but it does make it a bit harder to guarantee scum doesn't influence the vote.

If we're doing it, we need to decide ahead of time who we vote for the following day, so that no one can manipulate it

you, dargo, and vecna are on my sh*tlist for this...it's basically betting the whole game on Flum...

[Chaqa]

Would you be truely surprised that most of the other people are probably thinking that you two have just been hardcore bussing eachother?

Loads of other people keep flipping their opinion all the time, the two of you have been path-dependent projectiles for quite some time now

I wouldn't be surprised, no. It's a good strategy for kgray to adopt after I caught her, because now even if we catch her, you all will likely come at me later on and get scum another mis-kill.

yes, if you are town I dont see us ever winning this

That's why I was pushing so hard to get kgray yesterday. I thought we finally had consensus on her and a bunch of shady vote moves happened to stop it. Ghug, Flum, Seth, and I were all on the same page.

Rivera was voting Kgray for HOURS leading up to EoD, and switched over at the eleventh hour to save her. Yet no one else is even slightly suspicious of this???

It's shocking to me.

[Vecna]

also its not like people are sheeping me here.

Ive given my opinion on what I feel optimal play for today is. Its a NO KILL. So people like you could get more tracking results if you are town.

Did you engage me on that way more important stratagem? You did not.

If Darg is town and im wrong, (its possible, I aknowledge that) but then why are you not focusing on pushing the wagon on to his teammates? Who are his teammates anyway?

Ill probably be dead tomorrow anyway so then you can continue it your way, -if we successfully manage to get scum today-. Without my shouting.

[Chaqa]

FWIW - I think no kill today is reasonable, but it does make it a bit harder to guarantee scum doesn't influence the vote.

If we're doing it, we need to decide ahead of time who we vote for the following day, so that no one can manipulate it

you, dargo, and vecna are on my sh*tlist for this...it's basically betting the whole game on Flum...

Well, I trust Flum a lot more than most of you all right now

[Chaqa]

If there's some other way I can convince you guys, let me know, because I don't understand how no one else sees what I see. I'm feeling pretty gaslit by this entire day so far. I've got six hours to convince you to not throw the game away by voting me out and I'm completely lost on how to do that.

[Vecna]

some thoughts on other people than Kgray that actually seem believable would be a start.

Like, I know you've had townreads, but those people werent exactly hard to read.

Sure, Ghug and flum and seth all voted for Kgray yesterday, but two of those had not even read the last 150 pages and Ghug openly admitted he was very unsure of his reads.

[Vecna]

(and still, yes im also mightilty suspicious of Kgray and Rdrivera)

[BunnyGo]

also its not like people are sheeping me here.

Ive given my opinion on what I feel optimal play for today is. Its a NO KILL. So people like you could get more tracking results if you are town.

Did you engage me on that way more important stratagem? You did not.

If Darg is town and im wrong, (its possible, I aknowledge that) but then why are you not focusing on pushing the wagon on to his teammates? Who are his teammates anyway?

Ill probably be dead tomorrow anyway so then you can continue it your way, -if we successfully manage to get scum today-. Without my shouting.

I did engage. I said it was stupid and scummy

[Chaqa]

some thoughts on other people than Kgray that actually seem believable would be a start.

Like, I know you've had townreads, but those people werent exactly hard to read.

Sure, Ghug and flum and seth all voted for Kgray yesterday, but two of those had not even read the last 150 pages and Ghug openly admitted he was very unsure of his reads.

Why are you (and others) acting like kgray is my only read? See below:

Wasn't going to bother with an EoN post, but there's at least a possibility that Maniac gets killed and shoots me tonight. If that happens, we're in a really bad spot (6-4 assuming mafia recruited), so I want to put my thoughts out there.

Damo - Mild townread here. Hasn't done much of remark and I don't think I've really interacted with him, but him calling out my assumption on the Double Vote seems like a town tell?

Dargo - Definitely the Fruit Vendor, possibly mafia? I think FV is useful for mafia to mess with Faith Healers, if I'm understanding that correctly, so I could see scum taking the role, but I've not gotten a scummy vibe from him, so I'd lean slight town here.

Bunny - Bunny hasn't been drunk bunny yet. Probable scum.

Ghug - #1 town boy. Deal with it, that's all the reasoning I need.

Jamiet - I've been super back and forth on Jamiet all game. Day 1 still makes some sense if he were scum, but it's not 100%. I'll say moderate town for now.

Kgray - I've covered some reasons why I think Kgray is scum. Originally it was just a feeling based on her not seeming like she was investigating and probing like she does as town (very much a detective type). However, once I started pushing her, I was pretty certain, and my three-way lock vote on her idea REALLY upset her, but for the wrong reasons IMO. To me that entire interaction made it extremely blatant that she is scum.

Macca - Lurker scum. GG EZ

Maniac - There's a small chance he is a scum!Vengeful, but I don't think so, unless he was recruited and random'd into this role. Not much else to say here.

Rivera - Public Vanilla. Could be scum.

Seth - Like a slightly more active version of Macca. Scum.

Vecna - I forget exactly what it was now, but some interaction and comments by Vecna earlier made me feel he's very much town and I haven't had anything happen to change that read. Voyeur is not a role I think mafia would bother with either, so it seems unlikely he is anything but a good crewmate doing his tasks.


Some of this is more fleshed out than other. Just how it goes. I'm much more confident in my town reads than my scum reads, outside of Kgray

This is where I stand:

Scum
Kgray
Bunny
Rivera
Damo
Seth
-------------------------
Macca
Dargo
-------------------------
Vecna
Jamiet
Ghug
Town

People below the second line I refuse to vote for.

People above the first line I prefer to vote for. People in the middle I will vote for to save one of the people in the bottom group.

I've clearly had other ideas and part of the reason I'm feeling gaslit is because people are (as usual) treating me simultaneously as "dumb chaqa is bad at mafia" and also "chaqa is mafia and is tricking us all"

It gets very tiring.

[Vecna]

convince me damo is scum and the picture suddenly changes

[Chaqa]

Did we ever get a complete list of who damo (and also Bunny) had tracked this game? What about ghug and Vecna actions? Jamie and kgray? Dargo?

If we could get a full list of claimed actions I bet we could piece something together.

[Vecna]

im currently steadfast at all 4 scum being in

Kgray/Chaqa/Bunny/Damo/Rdrivera

Bunny has been trying to create new daykill options in Seth and Darg
You and Kgray have a potential plan set up to go the distance by mutual bussing
Rdrivera does Rdrivera and is probably counting on using emotional appeals into making us believe he is very in-tune with the town emotional mindset.

All of the above sort of works in a scum universe where u all try to distance from eachother sufficienctly. Youre not too well connected, youre not too far apart and ignoring eachother.

Damo is currently slightly (eeeeever so slightly) above the pack because of his very reasoned out and consistent fighting against my NO KILL idea. Scum damo in my experience usually caves hard if met with strong opposing views, but even though he knew his arguments were getting wiped away he did not want to concede the point whatsoever.

Macca is still a slight outsider-chance but meh, im just going to ignore that for today and try to hit scum and hopefully find out that he self-used.

[BunnyGo]

Did we ever get a complete list of who damo (and also Bunny) had tracked this game? What about ghug and Vecna actions? Jamie and kgray? Dargo?

If we could get a full list of claimed actions I bet we could piece something together.

I gave mine. Damo didn't give reasons.

[BunnyGo]

Vecna thinking damo's arguments about no-kill being "wiped away" is worrying. He's not reading/thinking. I don't know if this is town!vecna from last island game where he hyper focused and was useless, or scum!vecna trying to control the narrative.