M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[damo666]

It is considered a roleblock ability and resolves before any other roleblock ability.

LR could be scum

If LR was town N1 use only there could easily be another town RB with restricted use.

There was a Jailor in play N1 as well. Jailor has roleblocking power.

So Jailor and LR must be different alignments, yeah?

[foodcoats]

Here's a general purpose principle that is much more useful to town than arbitrary mechanical thought experiments:

Scum are much less likely than town to claim roles. They have information, they have confidence in their hidden position, and they win by keeping town from acquiring information to solve with.

Strangely, many players seem to be focusing on the claims, even though those who have claimed are, in general, less likely to be scum.

This makes me realize... flash did not claim and took a long pause before even addressing the activity emc alleged, in a circumspect manner. Xorxes was jailed by someone not flash, meaning flash is likely an investigative or scum, based on the claims and reveals so far. I don't know that xorxes crumbed anything that would make it likely flash is the scum RB. But considering xorx was widely townread, why would flash investigate xorx?

I am bumping flash down into my nulls. I realize now that, much like damo, fox and summit, flash had one or two good posts that pushed me to think he is town, but everything else he has done is largely invisible - perhaps intentionally.

[Vecna]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ghn ... F3MoU/edit

So ctrl + F for interceptor. Thats the role that brain was softing. Omniscient and dreamer are combinations of words that usually work in conjunction to have that sort of effect.

It was concluded after that game that that role was too OP for town in most situations, since it allows them to break the game with a massclaim.

No reason not to give it to scum so they have the tools to navigate a role madness game. Quite good GM design even, id say.

[damo666]

LR could be scum

If LR was town N1 use only there could easily be another town RB with restricted use.

There was a Jailor in play N1 as well. Jailor has roleblocking power.

So Jailor and LR must be different alignments, yeah?

So why not disclose who you think Jailor is then? We'd have a 50% chance of a scumkill tonight (more if we think J more likely scum than LR) and a 100% certainty of a scumkil today or tomorrow.

[foodcoats]

I think there can't be two town roleblockers. If you are a roleblocker, any other roleblocker would have to be scum. And you would be town because town roleblocker has priority. Your wording suggests you are classified as a roleblocker. Is that correct?

It is considered a roleblock ability and resolves before any other roleblock ability.

LR could be scum

If LR was town N1 use only there could easily be another town RB with restricted use.

I could've used it at any time, but as I explained on D2 I felt it was best used early. With something like Vig, I am confident holding the power and using it when I can make good impact, but with this... it would be far too random. It was simplest and best for town for me to clear it quickly and either give us a safe night or, being not a great town player, save better players the NK.

[Vecna]

@Xorxes - I think youre reasoning wrongly.

There might be an order of adjudication in the rules section, but role pm's can have different rules for that.

My role pm also very clearly says it behaves differently, and adjudicates BEFORE everything else.

[Vecna]

A roleblocker trying to RB me would not have RB'd me but wouldve died instead

[damo666]

It is considered a roleblock ability and resolves before any other roleblock ability.

LR could be scum

If LR was town N1 use only there could easily be another town RB with restricted use.

I could've used it at any time, but as I explained on D2 I felt it was best used early. With something like Vig, I am confident holding the power and using it when I can make good impact, but with this... it would be far too random. It was simplest and best for town for me to clear it quickly and either give us a safe night or, being not a great town player, save better players the NK.

From what I've read on tinternet a selective one use LR is usually a scum role.

[DemonRHK]

Well, I already put it halfway out there.

Yes, I am a Doctor. I was prepping to counter brain but then he posted that specific syntax I realized it matched what I got, and that two identical roles was pointed out as possible. If there are bastard mechanics in play or something else, no clue but there it is.

[xorxes]

Why can't be two town roleblockers? You believe the roles assignment is fully random or not? I understood you believe it was as you were talking about Mafia Tracker and Mafia Rod. So why can't town (or scum) have two roleblockers?

If there were two town roleblockers, and they both targeted each other, the rules provided would not be able to sort out what happens. The rules are very careful about what happens with conflicting roleblockers, so that's why I believe that.

I have no idea whether the roles were assigned fully, partially or not at all randomly. My guess is not at all, but that's just a wild guess.

What I believe about Tracker and Lightning Rod is that they could easily be assigned to Mafia. I don't think I ever said this would be because of a random assignment.

[rdrivera2005]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ghn ... F3MoU/edit

So ctrl + F for interceptor. Thats the role that brain was softing. Omniscient and dreamer are combinations of words that usually work in conjunction to have that sort of effect.

It was concluded after that game that that role was too OP for town in most situations, since it allows them to break the game with a massclaim.

No reason not to give it to scum so they have the tools to navigate a role madness game. Quite good GM design even, id say.

Really interesting this doc, I see a lot of the claimed or flipped roles were in this document.
So, contrary to others, you think the roles are AI?

[xorxes]

The Omniscient thing? Is this a real role? I don't remember it.

I think it's a stretch to base reads on roles that might exists or not. We have so many possibilities and we have seen that Worcej choose some different ones (don't remember a Motion Detector or a Neighborizer or whatever you are before).

I usually think scum BB like to generate chaos and I am not seeing this on this game.

Omniscient is different, it's a role that knows all the roles that are in play. The one Vecna is talking about is a different one that also existed in the game I was 3P and got huge amounts of info. I don't remember what the role was called, but I think it was Kitsune who had it.

I don't think what Vecna suggests is what happened, but I don't see the harm in exploring it.

You remember which one this was Xorx?

Sorry, no, but bozo probably does. I'll see if I can find it.

[xorxes]

LR could be scum

If LR was town N1 use only there could easily be another town RB with restricted use.

There was a Jailor in play N1 as well. Jailor has roleblocking power.

So Jailor and LR must be different alignments, yeah?

That's my theory. And town acts first, so LR has to be town. Or if both are scum, then LR Mafia nad Jailor 3rd party.

[xorxes]

Here's a general purpose principle that is much more useful to town than arbitrary mechanical thought experiments:

Scum are much less likely than town to claim roles. They have information, they have confidence in their hidden position, and they win by keeping town from acquiring information to solve with.

Strangely, many players seem to be focusing on the claims, even though those who have claimed are, in general, less likely to be scum.

This makes me realize... flash did not claim and took a long pause before even addressing the activity emc alleged, in a circumspect manner. Xorxes was jailed by someone not flash, meaning flash is likely an investigative or scum, based on the claims and reveals so far. I don't know that xorxes crumbed anything that would make it likely flash is the scum RB. But considering xorx was widely townread, why would flash investigate xorx?

I am bumping flash down into my nulls. I realize now that, much like damo, fox and summit, flash had one or two good posts that pushed me to think he is town, but everything else he has done is largely invisible - perhaps intentionally.

Where do you have Demon?

[damo666]

Why can't be two town roleblockers? You believe the roles assignment is fully random or not? I understood you believe it was as you were talking about Mafia Tracker and Mafia Rod. So why can't town (or scum) have two roleblockers?

If there were two town roleblockers, and they both targeted each other, the rules provided would not be able to sort out what happens. The rules are very careful about what happens with conflicting roleblockers, so that's why I believe that.

I have no idea whether the roles were assigned fully, partially or not at all randomly. My guess is not at all, but that's just a wild guess.

What I believe about Tracker and Lightning Rod is that they could easily be assigned to Mafia. I don't think I ever said this would be because of a random assignment.

@Xorxes there cannot be 2 roleblocking roles with the same alignment that operate on the same night.

[damo666]

Why can't be two town roleblockers? You believe the roles assignment is fully random or not? I understood you believe it was as you were talking about Mafia Tracker and Mafia Rod. So why can't town (or scum) have two roleblockers?

If there were two town roleblockers, and they both targeted each other, the rules provided would not be able to sort out what happens. The rules are very careful about what happens with conflicting roleblockers, so that's why I believe that.

I have no idea whether the roles were assigned fully, partially or not at all randomly. My guess is not at all, but that's just a wild guess.

What I believe about Tracker and Lightning Rod is that they could easily be assigned to Mafia. I don't think I ever said this would be because of a random assignment.

@Xorxes there cannot be 2 roleblocking roles with the same alignment that operate on the same night.

Emphasis on last 6 words. (On phone, too difficult to italicize)

[xorxes]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ghn ... F3MoU/edit

Yeah, I was the Assassin in that game.

[damo666]

There was a Jailor in play N1 as well. Jailor has roleblocking power.

So Jailor and LR must be different alignments, yeah?

That's my theory. And town acts first, so LR has to be town. Or if both are scum, then LR Mafia nad Jailor 3rd party.

This makes perfect sense. So let's identify and lynch the Jalier. Why don't you reveal your suspect and see what they say?

[DemonRHK]

FWIW, I am still in the line of thinking brain is absolutely a Doc as well.

[xorxes]

There was a Jailor in play N1 as well. Jailor has roleblocking power.

So Jailor and LR must be different alignments, yeah?

So why not disclose who you think Jailor is then? We'd have a 50% chance of a scumkill tonight (more if we think J more likely scum than LR) and a 100% certainty of a scumkil today or tomorrow.

I think it's obvious by now, so DemonRHK.

Jailor is both roleblocker and protective. From his protective part he must have known that I was not attacked and therefore did not need his protection, which allowed him to confirm brain's wording.

But really we should hear what he has to say first.