MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

eod is in a few hours rite?

Yes. Please do not get modkilled, unless you're never going to play. Then just take one for whatever team you're on.

[BunnyGo]

Tick Tock, Liar Liar Pants on Fire!

Please don’t be counter claiming Conspiracy Theorist. There can be two

[ghug]

Why does scum!damo claim in that situation, though? What does he get out of it?

I agree, info kills are bad. But if damo is telling the truth then we get actual mechanical info, not just VCA "help" which I think might make this worth it.

Scum!damo claims b/c he's worried about getting scanned and for whatever reason felt pressured to make a claim.

I'm actually shocked you're making this argument about celaph. He's going to flip at somepoint, and our PR's are going to keep getting their scans. If we later learn if their scans are valid or not, we can use that information then (namely after celaph flips). This is a 21 person game (19 now), so we have loads of time before we need to use the scans.

Who knows, maybe celaph claims PR at some point and mafia need to NK him instead. Wouldn't that be amazing?

Don't see why damo would feel that way, but okay.

I'm making this argument because I actually scumread celaph. If this were about Rivera, for example, I would not be proposing this daykill.

If celaph claims PR we kill him immediately, since he already claimed VT.

Wait, when did he do that?

[kgray]

@ghug

celaph did seem a lot more townie when he was up for the daykill two games ago. seems more resigned here?

I have no point to argue. VTs can't clean themselves D1.

[Donny Dude]

Night 1 Celaph:

celaph did seem a lot more townie when he was up for the daykill two games ago. seems more resigned here?

I have no point to argue. VTs can't clean themselves D1.

Wtf. Why claim so early at night. Last game celaph did a good job of not claiming and I would expect town to be more hesitant to claim right away. Seems scummy for doing so, but could be a panic move.
Also seems convinced he would be high on a vig list for info.

I'd expect to be higher on the vig shoot list than both HR and Brain. Not sure what Bona was doing there.

Explain why a VT claim would be targeted for a NK?

I don't think the maf/sk have any reason to kill me. I said vig.

The issue here is it gives away information and makes it less likely which is true, but then I would expect celaph to work his ass off at night to seem townier, instead of being concerned about vig and not worry about the nk.
Say ghug and hr look decent for votes, which is an odd take.
Says ghug looks concerned about the outcome of a tie; but I know ghug breaks ties for towncred anyways. Says scum ghug would sit on his wagon.
Asks bb why he townreads him so much.
Is celaph a mechanical player, because in his eon reads posts he claims there is no mechanical info to work with.
At this point help solve instead of being whatever this is.

D2
I also think celaph is scum, town him would have fought harder at night I think. ##vote celaph

Starts d2 off with immediate mechanic talk. Thinks ghug is town, damo is weak and maniac scumreads him for towny things.

To answer your first question, the short answer is because I felt hopeless, didn't believe that I would live. The votes against me, at least those that have been explained, were gut/meta reads. Bona because I'm more jovial. You because I'm less confident. I can't push back against something like that in an instant. I convince you by how I play the rest of the game. It doesn't help that I don't have any mechanical info to work with.

I don't have a good answer to your second question. I remember the thought crossing my mind with roughly 5 minutes less, but I didn't get further than I blank message.

In terms of reads:
Likely town: you (kgray) and Bob.
Lean town: Bona, Donny, bb, and ghug. Donny is the person on this list who I remember the least of, but reading his iso he has asked a lot of good questions. This night he has done a better job turning those questions into statements which I like and hope to see more of.
Lean town/don't want to kill yet: Bunny, Damo, and Vecna. I've separated these out because while I lean them town for now, the value of the reasons will fall off later on. Vecna is here because of the value of town Vecna and I think his behavior tonight shows confidence. Bunny and Damo are the town non-VT claims. This gives them some credit, but given the set-up far less than it would in previous games.
Shade town: HR.
Null: Most everyone else. Of people of note, I think Jasnah is worth watching because she has been insightful on some points though her behavior is generally anti-town.
Shade scum: Maniac and Ezio for their poorly justified votes at the end. Jasnah and Damo also fit that description, but I think Jasnah has contributed slightly more than either of them and damo has claimed non-VT.

Why do you townread ghug? Do you townread damo at all or is it only that he claimed non-VT? Do you think Maniac's votes/justifications are unlike what he did as town in the games you've played with him?

As I've said before, I townlean ghug for his vote movement and thought that I haven't seen from scum ghug.

In terms of Damo I think his content has been very weak. They're virtually all short comments that show little thought or insight which makes claiming PR with 30 hours left in D1 easily the towniest thing he has done.

Regarding Maniac, I agree with rdr's earlier post that they went unnoticed most of D1, though it makes me concerned when I'm scumreading Maniac for what would otherwise be towny behavior.

Repeating myself, is concerned he scumreads maniac for towny things so which one is it?
Talk of mafia discards and there now being a small team.
Says Maniac is towny because of some posts, but scummy because of voting behavior.
Personally, Maniac is scummy because of voting when he is town. Not a great metric to read him by and feels like a weak scumread by celaph.
Thinks ghug is playing weird still, thinks it is for reactions.
Asks ghug if ghug thinks ezio thinks town doctor is a boring role.

As written says very little about the aliens. If you wanted to extrapolate then I would guess 3-4 aliens, but the margin of error in that and which aliens is much higher this game.

I think either way, the take away is that at least one of our scum teams will be very opposed to bussing and possibly both.

Do you think the aliens are claiming mafia discards?

If they are it's because they honestly got an alien and a mafia. For all the reasons mentioned earlier, I would find it really dubious if someone claimed a discard that was neither of their cards unless that discard was mafia goon or town VT.

Celaph could fit that he posts exactly here.
Asks jasnah to elaborate.
Vt on rb and informing.
For a guy who claims he scumread ghug d1, you sure never voted him at all.
Than asks how could maniac act scummy, wtf. That just seems like give me ideas for how I can set maniac up later.

Early game he made a reasonable point about not killing ghug. He makes a good point about not voting for Bozo and engaged in reasonable conversation defending it. It not much compared to others, but it's more than I'm used to seeing.

The scummy part of Maniac is his voting behavior. He voted rdr because 3-way ties are fun and then voted me because he hadn't played with lfischl before.

Why did you find his point about ghug reasonable? You were scumreading ghug D1. What about Maniac's voting behavior is more scummy than when he voted for his top townread in your first game?

At its core Maniac's argument is that daykilling good town players D1 is usually bad because of the value that they bring. He sees ghug as a good town player and thus not a good DK D1. Yes, I know I scumread ghug D1. That doesn't mean I can't find an argument supporting not killing him to be reasonable. Do you disagree?

I'll answer your question regarding Maniac with my own. What actions could Maniac take that would make you seem him as scummy?

He is trending downwards D2 for this reason, but not as fast for me as the people voting him. I get the feeling that he is playing weird intentionally at the moment, though the question is obviously why. If I had to guess I think he's fishing for reactions around his roleblocked claim.

I don't understand what trending downwards means. You think he's becoming more scummy now? You were scumreading him D1 and then N1 you said you thought he was town because of his D1 votes. Are you saying you think he doesn't seem solvey still (or again?) and so his votes are less compelling reason to townread him?

What do you dislike about the people voting him? Which people, and is it only because they're voting ghug or for other reasons?

Yes, by trending downwards I meant that he was getting scummier. I should clarify that I don't particularly think that the people voting for ghug are getting scummier in my book, but rathar that their perception of ghug is worse than my perception of ghug (and getting worse at a faster rate, though that is more debatable).

At the start of D2 he wasn't solvey, no. And I was marking him as scummier because of it. His votes were still a reason to townread him, but the value of all non-mechanical information goes down the more of it there is.

This is more of that ghug seems scummy to me, but info is now how he values ghug?

Asks if scum him would be concerned about ateention.
Happily jumps back into mechanics.
Once again concerned about bb's read on him. Why is he concerned about bb in particular?
Talks about his and ghug connection more mechanics ,gosh celaph just loves to talk about mechanics.
Rephrases shit maniac question and talks about his now holy trumplike scumread of ghug.
Makes a scumread of damo based off what others have said and his mental image of damo.
Asks maniac a general question.

[ghug]

@Ghuggles using only the words Mafia, Alien, SK or Town what do you think of the following people?

Kgray
Bonatogether
Ezio
Brainbomb
This Handsome Man
BobMcBob
Damo666
Donny Dude
Jasnah

I know you've probably expressed opinions on some of them already, but I'm lazy and would like it all in one place.

TIA

I don't have specific sorts of scumreads on many people yet. Bona, brain, Bob, damo probably town. The rest not so much.

Why damo?

I still think it's more likely his claim is legit.

Also I forgot to put you in a maybe probably town bucket all by yourself. Sorry about that.

What made you want to vote HR right before he reappeared?

[ghug]

I can verify our codenames from mason chat and my teammates discards and even another townclear if you plan to force us to do it

Why do you feel the need to be like this?

[ghug]

@ghug

celaph did seem a lot more townie when he was up for the daykill two games ago. seems more resigned here?

I have no point to argue. VTs can't clean themselves D1.

What did he mean by "clean"?

I'm also not too interested in a VT claim. It's a bit more meaningful here, but it should still probably be the default.

[kgray]

@ghug

I have no point to argue. VTs can't clean themselves D1.

What did he mean by "clean"?

I'm also not too interested in a VT claim. It's a bit more meaningful here, but it should still probably be the default.

I think he meant "clear" and was saying he had no way to fight back against his kill because he's claiming a VT, not a confirmable role.

He was up for the kill, very likely to die. He's either a VT or scum who couldn't claim PR for fear of being CC'd, like you and bozo were saying.

[celaph]

Maniac, I liked your post about the psychotrooper. Had a question about it then realized it had a pretty obvious answer.

Do I push my claim today or let the traction on Celaph reach its natural conclusion?

What do you think the natural conclusion of the traction on me is? I've seen a number of people put me down as scum while a number have put me down as null/townlean.

[ghug]

Maniac, I liked your post about the psychotrooper. Had a question about it then realized it had a pretty obvious answer.

Do I push my claim today or let the traction on Celaph reach its natural conclusion?

What do you think the natural conclusion of the traction on me is? I've seen a number of people put me down as scum while a number have put me down as null/townlean.

I'm more interested to hear what you think of it.

##VOTE kgray

[kgray]

I don't have specific sorts of scumreads on many people yet. Bona, brain, Bob, damo probably town. The rest not so much.

Why damo?

I still think it's more likely his claim is legit.

Also I forgot to put you in a maybe probably town bucket all by yourself. Sorry about that.

What made you want to vote HR right before he reappeared?

I think he's scummy? lol

[kgray]

Maniac, I liked your post about the psychotrooper. Had a question about it then realized it had a pretty obvious answer.

Do I push my claim today or let the traction on Celaph reach its natural conclusion?

What do you think the natural conclusion of the traction on me is? I've seen a number of people put me down as scum while a number have put me down as null/townlean.

I'm more interested to hear what you think of it.

##VOTE kgray

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

[kgray]

What do you think the natural conclusion of the traction on me is? I've seen a number of people put me down as scum while a number have put me down as null/townlean.

I'm more interested to hear what you think of it.

##VOTE kgray

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

And what does this have to do with celaph?

[ghug]

What do you think the natural conclusion of the traction on me is? I've seen a number of people put me down as scum while a number have put me down as null/townlean.

I'm more interested to hear what you think of it.

##VOTE kgray

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

Just the next step in pocketing Ezio

Why do you think HR is scummy?

##VOTE emc

[kgray]

I'm more interested to hear what you think of it.

##VOTE kgray

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

Just the next step in pocketing Ezio

Why do you think HR is scummy?

##VOTE emc

Probably mostly because our egos are clashing tbh

[ghug]

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

Just the next step in pocketing Ezio

Why do you think HR is scummy?

##VOTE emc

Probably mostly because our egos are clashing tbh

But you seemingly crossposted his big post, which means you were suddenly inclined to vote for him after he hadn't posted in a while. Was the ego clash that fresh in your mind?

[kgray]

wtf what happened to me being maybe probably town?

Just the next step in pocketing Ezio

Why do you think HR is scummy?

##VOTE emc

Probably mostly because our egos are clashing tbh

Although I found our recent interaction to be over-the-top and it feels like he's forcing his frustration of me. Similar to how I felt his indignation that more people weren't trying to untie the EoD1 vote was fake.

[kgray]

Just the next step in pocketing Ezio

Why do you think HR is scummy?

##VOTE emc

Probably mostly because our egos are clashing tbh

But you seemingly crossposted his big post, which means you were suddenly inclined to vote for him after he hadn't posted in a while. Was the ego clash that fresh in your mind?

Yeah I did crosspost that one. I've just been feeling HR is off since his vote for Rivera after saying he thought Rivera was being his town self, and our back-and-forth N1 was frustrating me in a way that made me think he was brushing off certain topics/questions. But I also think it's possible that's explained by us both thinking we're "right."

[kgray]

Probably mostly because our egos are clashing tbh

But you seemingly crossposted his big post, which means you were suddenly inclined to vote for him after he hadn't posted in a while. Was the ego clash that fresh in your mind?

Yeah I did crosspost that one. I've just been feeling HR is off since his vote for Rivera after saying he thought Rivera was being his town self, and our back-and-forth N1 was frustrating me in a way that made me think he was brushing off certain topics/questions. But I also think it's possible that's explained by us both thinking we're "right."

There wasn't anything sudden that made me vote for him, just a general scumlean that I decided to push.