MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[Jamiet99uk]

##CALL GM

can a mafia PR use their PR ability and also use the factional RB or factional kill the same night?

Yes they can.

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE:

To be clear, once there is only one Mafia left, they have to choose between the two factional abilities, BUT they still also have any PR abilities available as normal.

[worcej]

GM NOTE:

To be clear, once there is only one Mafia left, they have to choose between the two factional abilities, BUT they still also have any PR abilities available as normal.

##unend

Alright, specific question:

##Call GM - In the situation where two mafia were left, one is a PR and one is the goon, could the PR use his ability along with a faction ability and the other mafia player use the other faction ability?

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE:

To be clear, once there is only one Mafia left, they have to choose between the two factional abilities, BUT they still also have any PR abilities available as normal.

##unend

Alright, specific question:

##Call GM - In the situation where two mafia were left, one is a PR and one is the goon, could the PR use his ability along with a faction ability and the other mafia player use the other faction ability?

Yes of course, the issue of having to choose only one faction ability only arises when the Mafia are down to one member. They can use a PR ability and a factional ability; that is normal.

[worcej]

Okay, so this debunks my BB theory slightly...

Food, I have an important question for you. And, FWIW, I don't scum you in any form...

But why are you alive over ND?

[foodcoats]

Okay, so this debunks my BB theory slightly...

Food, I have an important question for you. And, FWIW, I don't scum you in any form...

But why are you alive over ND?

Yeah so I went back and confirmed I was RBd the night ND died. Specifically it was to poke a hole in your idea that bozo would not allow me to live, but if brain was indeed tamperer, they may have gone for a play that would induce more mystery into the game, perhaps by suggesting I was the mafia PR when brain flipped goon.

Also, as to why I am alive, and why they picked ND that night, this goes back to when I said I was the least threat. I was semi townclear, but if you go look at my reads around when ND died, they were pretty awful… while ND was very clear and precise that he thought it was brain and bozo. So they could have decided I was not going to solve the game correctly while ND did and it was better to get ND before they went down to one member and my role became a feasible NK blocker.

But all this is actually not the main thing I think is a problem with your brain-bozo criticism. I started thinking again how quiet bozo is right now and how I don’t like that because I’ve seen him in final 3 before very engaged. Maybe he is down because he is just one of two now, but it does not feel right.

But here’s the thing. Bozo is definitely a more low key person. And you say he would “not allow” brain to make a suboptimal play? That is wrong. Brainbomb is - when it comes to Mafia - egotistical, obsessed with mafia, and thinks he knows the game better than anyone else in the community.* I can totally imagine brain browbeating bozo into doing what he wanted to do. On the other hand, killing ND isn’t even so suboptimal. But this is where I also look at how brain was posting that one night to induce WIFOM… he was outright RUDE to bozo but not so much to the other players he was reading there. And because brain broke the code of conduct, he may have an angry partner who is within their right to ask for a temp ban. So I can imagine a really salty scum chat that night that produces a potentially odd result to us… and that leads brain to be a jerk to bozo… and that also, you might notice, bozo doesn’t engage with brain’s meltdown, he just smoothly transitions to solving based on it.

All this is not to say bozo is scum… It is to say the argument that brain and bozo can’t be paired is very wrong.

And that brings me back to the core reads. I think when I read through the first 3 days again, there is just so much possibility for it to be either of spirit or bozo. And now I’m like, maybe the split is only 55/45. But here again is why.

Spirit’s misreading of the bloodhound role really felt like a townslip to me. I viscerally feel the sad dog face when he doesn’t understand. For him to be scum there, he is a MASTER conspirator and actor, because there’s no way the PRs aren’t discussed in scum chat.

Second is ghug and Vecna scumread bozo. They are both confirmed non mafia and they have more experience in this game than me, and are generally respected in the community. Vecna caught Dip really well. So I believe in those reads.

Third, I think there is something to Dip 3P-reading Spirit. i think it is ACTUAL 3P hunting. I think that if they were teammates, he would want to set up an opportunity to take credit for scumreading him. For him to 3P read him as a teammate is very circuitous. I think this one is really marginal because Dip is crafty scum, but I think it’s 51/49 it makes spirit town.

Finally, and while this may seem ridiculous, I have to consider the fact that I’m bad at town and I scumread or 3P’d Spirit most of the game, and bozo just never triggered me ever so I assumed he was town. I have many times when dying early seen the scumteam and realized I was just so, so, so wrong. So to me there’s value in recognizing my instincts are often flipped and bozo and spirit and inverted to the way I initially reacted to them.

So I have to move back to bozo here, and if you want to kill spirit, you’ll have to go through the rigmarole. It’s not that I have ironclad certainty I’m right, but for the sake of the team I have to put my best effort forward and I do think bozo is more likely here. Plus worcej has the deciding vote - you can still get all the glory.

One more thing for you to think about worcej. You started this game saying that certain players are bad at accepting town consensus. I think that my views are aligned to the broader town view, and I feel like you are trying to make the hero call. You’re not necessarily wrong - like I said, this is a really tight margin - but if you meant what you said at the beginning, consider the fact that spirit, so far as I can tell, has never developed a strong scumread, whereas good non mafia players scumread bozo.

##VOTE bozo

*I truly love playing with brainbomb and was planning to vote for him for the council because of this passion, which I think is a huge asset to the community - despite that passion having a dark side, haha.

[worcej]

##vote bozo
##end

I'll concede I may be biased on spirit and I've been really needing you to bounce ideas off of.

Bozo feels off...

I expected him to say or do more right now if he was town, but I feel like he just let me cook the entire time with Spirit and stayed too out of it...

[worcej]

I'll take my own personal victory if I was right on Spirit the entire time and got it wrong right here with you and doing the homework.

[worcej]

I put my best effort into getting you to see what I see with Spirit and you obliged me and provided the context/justification for your stance.

I see it too and would have enough of my own suspicions to think it's plausible.

[bozotheclown]

It looks like you almost gave me a chance to town clear myself while I was away, but not quite.

[bozotheclown]

Okay, so this debunks my BB theory slightly...

Food, I have an important question for you. And, FWIW, I don't scum you in any form...

But why are you alive over ND?

Yeah so I went back and confirmed I was RBd the night ND died. Specifically it was to poke a hole in your idea that bozo would not allow me to live, but if brain was indeed tamperer, they may have gone for a play that would induce more mystery into the game, perhaps by suggesting I was the mafia PR when brain flipped goon.

Also, as to why I am alive, and why they picked ND that night, this goes back to when I said I was the least threat. I was semi townclear, but if you go look at my reads around when ND died, they were pretty awful… while ND was very clear and precise that he thought it was brain and bozo. So they could have decided I was not going to solve the game correctly while ND did and it was better to get ND before they went down to one member and my role became a feasible NK blocker.

But all this is actually not the main thing I think is a problem with your brain-bozo criticism. I started thinking again how quiet bozo is right now and how I don’t like that because I’ve seen him in final 3 before very engaged. Maybe he is down because he is just one of two now, but it does not feel right.

But here’s the thing. Bozo is definitely a more low key person. And you say he would “not allow” brain to make a suboptimal play? That is wrong. Brainbomb is - when it comes to Mafia - egotistical, obsessed with mafia, and thinks he knows the game better than anyone else in the community.* I can totally imagine brain browbeating bozo into doing what he wanted to do. On the other hand, killing ND isn’t even so suboptimal. But this is where I also look at how brain was posting that one night to induce WIFOM… he was outright RUDE to bozo but not so much to the other players he was reading there. And because brain broke the code of conduct, he may have an angry partner who is within their right to ask for a temp ban. So I can imagine a really salty scum chat that night that produces a potentially odd result to us… and that leads brain to be a jerk to bozo… and that also, you might notice, bozo doesn’t engage with brain’s meltdown, he just smoothly transitions to solving based on it.

All this is not to say bozo is scum… It is to say the argument that brain and bozo can’t be paired is very wrong.

And that brings me back to the core reads. I think when I read through the first 3 days again, there is just so much possibility for it to be either of spirit or bozo. And now I’m like, maybe the split is only 55/45. But here again is why.

Spirit’s misreading of the bloodhound role really felt like a townslip to me. I viscerally feel the sad dog face when he doesn’t understand. For him to be scum there, he is a MASTER conspirator and actor, because there’s no way the PRs aren’t discussed in scum chat.

Second is ghug and Vecna scumread bozo. They are both confirmed non mafia and they have more experience in this game than me, and are generally respected in the community. Vecna caught Dip really well. So I believe in those reads.

Third, I think there is something to Dip 3P-reading Spirit. i think it is ACTUAL 3P hunting. I think that if they were teammates, he would want to set up an opportunity to take credit for scumreading him. For him to 3P read him as a teammate is very circuitous. I think this one is really marginal because Dip is crafty scum, but I think it’s 51/49 it makes spirit town.

Finally, and while this may seem ridiculous, I have to consider the fact that I’m bad at town and I scumread or 3P’d Spirit most of the game, and bozo just never triggered me ever so I assumed he was town. I have many times when dying early seen the scumteam and realized I was just so, so, so wrong. So to me there’s value in recognizing my instincts are often flipped and bozo and spirit and inverted to the way I initially reacted to them.

So I have to move back to bozo here, and if you want to kill spirit, you’ll have to go through the rigmarole. It’s not that I have ironclad certainty I’m right, but for the sake of the team I have to put my best effort forward and I do think bozo is more likely here. Plus worcej has the deciding vote - you can still get all the glory.

One more thing for you to think about worcej. You started this game saying that certain players are bad at accepting town consensus. I think that my views are aligned to the broader town view, and I feel like you are trying to make the hero call. You’re not necessarily wrong - like I said, this is a really tight margin - but if you meant what you said at the beginning, consider the fact that spirit, so far as I can tell, has never developed a strong scumread, whereas good non mafia players scumread bozo.

##VOTE bozo

*I truly love playing with brainbomb and was planning to vote for him for the council because of this passion, which I think is a huge asset to the community - despite that passion having a dark side, haha.

If they RBed you N6, I assume they did not want to take a chance on you outguessing them and protecting ND. brainbomb was almost certain to be the D7 DK though, so they could have RBed/NKed you N6 and NKed ND N7 if they wanted to make sure you were not around D8, so I don't think they cared that much if you were still in the game or not.

[foodcoats]

Dying early is kinda nice, this decision is so hard even when it’s just a game.

##END

[bozotheclown]

As for my activity level D8, besides not having a lot of time, I don't think going over everything SpiritoftheRadio did again pointing out how it could be scum motivated would be that helpful, and it would probably come across as scum scrambling anyway.

[Jamiet99uk]

DAY HAS ENDED
PLEASE HOLD

(HAMMER APPLIED)

[Jamiet99uk]

"We caught a witch, din't we?" asked a villager.

"Aye, we did. So, what's that Witchfinder General doin, still 'ere?"

"Pokin' 'is nose into honest God fearin' people's business, that's what he's doin!"

The villagers fetched their weapons.

"Now it's time to find the witch-finder! We'll run him out of towne! And let God be thr judge of him!"

Bozotheclown has died. He was Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder General.

Foodcoats has survived, he was John Lowes, the Priest!
Worcej has survived, he was Wilbert Hesketh, the Vanilla Town!
SpiritoftheRadio has survived, he was Geddy Peart, the Vanilla Town!

The town has won Mafia 92.

Thanks everyone for playing. Thanks Darg for his assistance.

[worcej]

FUCKING THANK CHRIST FOR YOU FOOD!

[miminena]

YAYYYYYY :D

[foodcoats]

"We caught a witch, din't we?" asked a villager.

"Aye, we did. So, what's that Witchfinder General doin, still 'ere?"

"Pokin' 'is nose into honest God fearin' people's business, that's what he's doin!"

The villagers fetched their weapons.

"Now it's time to find the witch-finder! We'll run him out of towne! And let God be thr judge of him!"

Bozotheclown has died. He was Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder General.

Foodcoats has survived, he was John Lowes, the Priest!
Worcej has survived, he was Wilbert Hesketh, the Vanilla Town!
SpiritoftheRadio has survived, he was Geddy Peart, the Vanilla Town!

The town has won Mafia 92.

Thanks everyone for playing. Thanks Darg for his assistance.

AND THERE WAS MUCH REJOICING!

[Jamiet99uk]

GAME HAS ENDED

(for bot)

[bozotheclown]

good game