MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[Maniac]

Rdrivera really is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside a enigma.

I think his early voting record points to him being SK. His slip about Brain claiming to be marvelous would normally be a slam dunk scum, yet he was on the lead wagon yesterday that had a vote reduced by the SK and he gives advice to town about the reality stone that scum just wouldn't give.

I don't know what to think anymore.

It seems Jamie has the thoughts as me regards Tem's yuuki vote, but i'll wait for him to provide an answer before i decide about him.

I'm scum leaning Damo, Chaqa, vaporwave and BunnyGo at the moment. but admit it's mainly based on D2 EOD and yuuki lynch.

##vote vaporwave

[Kitsune]

Lmao rip, beginning mafia games by missing start through napping is becoming a trend, I missed the opportunity to taunt foxc again

I see that in M48, you once again protected your scum meta by waiting to be the last vote. Although you are getting better about not voting absolutely last minute, and you are moving your vote around. That's progress, I guess.

I was responding to this actually.

After being pushed to vote for someone, not No-lynch, but someone early and before I had more than guesswork I was all kinds of self conscious about my vote. I’d really prefer to have waited until I saw something I felt was indicative, and from the vantage point of D3 I was right to resent being pushed into a blind lynch.

[Nephthys]

Do you have 20 minutes?

I will have 20 minutes in about an hour, probably.

Cool...I was thinking try researching like a trial. Pick a town or scum read you have and then do everything you can to prove that you're wrong. Post the results here. Best case you can make. On whomever.

You wanna do this? Or just some sort of analysis?

[Nephthys]

Just a little rant, cause I'm getting lowkey frustrated

@anyone who says they "can't" form a case.

You have ALL published scum reads. That means you have a read. Go back, find what posts give you this. Explain it, EVEN IF YOU JUST SAY ITS GUT. Literally anything. If on re-read you can't find why you're reading them, then you can't read hold that read on them. This game is getting painful. There are so few people that are doing anything besides saying X is scum. Please, literally give us anything to work with.

- Someone who's nearly in physical pain from reading this thread.

[KalelChase]

What makes you scumread Kitsune?

Kitsune is too smart and organized to be this clueless. Even if he's specifically new to mafia, he's putting on a front.

BunnyGo has a habit of jumping into conversations between others lol. I am inclined to see that as townie, Bunny eager to get into the mix.

Why is this town points? It would seem that jumping into a conversation between others would be a scum move to derail, or even redirect, a conversation. Wouldn't a townie (unless needing to defend themselves), want to watch and see if the 2 person exchange reveals anything, or watch to see if anyone pivots erratically?

[Nephthys]

Also, we are not policy lynching rivera as possible SK.

Vision him if you want, I would support that, but there's no way in hell we are just gonna straight up lynch him.

[dargorygel]

Ok...
I still am attunded to the fact that EP and RDR both voted on both EoD top wagons...
But I just read RDR again, and while he seems short at times, that's probably NAI.
I'd like to know if he is SK, though.

While I AM interested in catching Thanos... I accept the wisdom of the room. I'm going back to vape.

Which I am willing, on this mellow afternoon, to consider that I am OMGUSing. Vape, why do you scumread me?

##VOTE VAPORWAVE

[Nephthys]

@food, what made you decide that you wanted to go back and read the opening 15 pages?

[Nephthys]

Just a little rant, cause I'm getting lowkey frustrated

@anyone who says they "can't" form a case.

You have ALL published scum reads. That means you have a read. Go back, find what posts give you this. Explain it, EVEN IF YOU JUST SAY ITS GUT. Literally anything. If on re-read you can't find why you're reading them, then you can't read hold that read on them. This game is getting painful. There are so few people that are doing anything besides saying X is scum. Please, literally give us anything to work with.

- Someone who's nearly in physical pain from reading this thread.

Just to further this, another thing you can do is engage with presented cases. e.g. I like X but don't see what you mean by Y, can you elaborate. PLEASE, just anything.

[BunnyGo]

I’m interest in how Yuuki got lynched yesterday. Whilst he bears some responsibility there was also eight people who sealed his fate.

We know xorxes and Jamie are town. Espresso made a case against yuuki and pushed him, so his actions were consistent, I have issues with espresso for other reasons, but he is consistent here. Rdrivera barely mentions him but votes for him over me. At the end of the day people should decide between lead wagons and Rdrivera says he preferred Yuuki lynch over me. I vote yuuki very late. I was the other wagon and wanted to make sure lynch wasn’t SK influenced. Tem – says it's just a placeholder. Foxcastle – scum reads yuuki but no detail. Chaqa – flips-flops, first reads yuuki as def town or maybe town. Then says Yuuki is his scumlean then yuuki is lurking town.

Vaporwave, bunny and Dame all scum read yuuki but surprisingly weren’t on the lynch at the end. This is as relevant as the eight people who hanged yuuki.
The SK reduced the vote count. Maybe I’m Gamora? Maybe rdrivera isn’t the SK? So many were on me earlier on the day, it could be SK was on me earlier.

Questions:
@Chaqa: What did you actually think of yuuki and why did you flip-flop on your read?
@Vaporwave, Damo and BunnyGo – why were you scum reading someone but not voting for them when they were the lead wagon?
@Tem – you voted yuuki as a placeholder why?
@Foxcastle, could you explain a bit more why you voted Yuuki?

TIA

Point of order. I specifically saids yuuki's low posting could be anything, and we were just as likely to hit a PR

[BunnyGo]

I’m interest in how Yuuki got lynched yesterday. Whilst he bears some responsibility there was also eight people who sealed his fate.

We know xorxes and Jamie are town. Espresso made a case against yuuki and pushed him, so his actions were consistent, I have issues with espresso for other reasons, but he is consistent here. Rdrivera barely mentions him but votes for him over me. At the end of the day people should decide between lead wagons and Rdrivera says he preferred Yuuki lynch over me. I vote yuuki very late. I was the other wagon and wanted to make sure lynch wasn’t SK influenced. Tem – says it's just a placeholder. Foxcastle – scum reads yuuki but no detail. Chaqa – flips-flops, first reads yuuki as def town or maybe town. Then says Yuuki is his scumlean then yuuki is lurking town.

Vaporwave, bunny and Dame all scum read yuuki but surprisingly weren’t on the lynch at the end. This is as relevant as the eight people who hanged yuuki.
The SK reduced the vote count. Maybe I’m Gamora? Maybe rdrivera isn’t the SK? So many were on me earlier on the day, it could be SK was on me earlier.

Questions:
@Chaqa: What did you actually think of yuuki and why did you flip-flop on your read?
@Vaporwave, Damo and BunnyGo – why were you scum reading someone but not voting for them when they were the lead wagon?
@Tem – you voted yuuki as a placeholder why?
@Foxcastle, could you explain a bit more why you voted Yuuki?

TIA

I said that I believed his "work has me slammed" posts" and wanted to give through the weekend.

[BunnyGo]

I will have 20 minutes in about an hour, probably.

Cool...I was thinking try researching like a trial. Pick a town or scum read you have and then do everything you can to prove that you're wrong. Post the results here. Best case you can make. On whomever.

You wanna do this? Or just some sort of analysis?

The last time I did I made that long post about Kalel where I thought he was less scummy after than I did before.

[rdrivera2005]

Since Vapor is now the biggest wagon I was re-reading him as I just don't have a good read on him. Overall I feel something off on him, specially D1. The posts I found more relevant are this:

man, bomb's goose is cooked

say goodbye to surviving past N1

my first game to be fully confident in his townlean, this is pure magic

attempting a weak, half-assed list of reads

bozo is town, I really dislike how he's doing stuff, finding a team and being too certain about it for his own good. Dare I suggest, dear bozo, that both me and bomb are town and you should leave us alone, otherwise there will be consequences

dargo - could be that 1 scum

e.m.c - early town, but he admitted to being a lil' shit that has no qualms about stabbing us in the back. He can act better than the average player

foodcoats - have you guys noticed? he's implementing humor this time, it's very abrasive, I want to see what type of colors foodcoats will display in his posts

Kitsune - a newbie or pretending to be one, letting his hand being guided by others. Can't say anything else

Fox - I can't use that word for Fox but so far he's uninspiring

ND is probably town and having fun

Neph - I townlean Neph too easily every game, I can't catch him in scum mode

##VOTE Temasek

as per usual, don't be a J and quote this post later to rub it in my face

Pretty accurate reads on the town ones to be honest, but the part saying that there will be consequences to Bozo is weird. And the naked vote on Temasek is also weird because he didn't even got a mention on his reads.

↑EspressoPatronum: "My question for you is this: would you say your play was different this game compared to M1007 and M47? As an objective ..."
There's no difference between me in this game and previous ones. A Nebraska restaurant manager mentioned that my entrance felt a bit 'defeated' and dargo called me scared, but all of that happened in the beginning and I've explained why.

My initial reaction upon receiving my alignment was pure joy, but then something changed after I saw various roles and realised I'm left with nothing. I can't mention anything else without breaching the integrity of this game.

Explain to me why you aren't scum this game, Espresso.

This is absolutely non-sense considering he claimed VT and there is no way I can see a VT “breaching the integrity of the game”. It's like he is preparing some kind of claim.

There were that post about that were only 4 Mafia but he explained it later and it's a plausible explanation.

The last minute vote on ND shows he and ND/Sulit can ́t be scum together.

This are all on D1, then his posts on N2 and D2 didn ́t stood out, but I found his reads on N3 pretty great (the fact they are close to mine have an effect of course)

BuG (town) - townie potty mouthed boy
Chaqa (town) - my man, nobody touch this guy or else...town

dam​o (scum candidate) - you scumbo, you dirty bird you, not giving a flying monkey after N1
dargo (null) - uncertain, I'm not familiar with any of gramps' dargo's meta

foodcoats (scum candidate) - ringleader
Fox (null) - was visited by mafia hooker so there's that

KalelCheese (null) - a shy fidgety newbie, not sure what to make of him
Kitsune (town) - townie who took a ride on a flying carpet


Man​iac (town) - VT, I trust him with his reactions and he's so gutsy
ND/sulit - townie reactions but not that certain

Nephthy​s (scum candidate) - scumbo potential, Neph why you do this evil?
rdrivera2005 (town)

Temasek2​2 (scumbo)
same play as when he was scum

@Vapor - What you meant with that remark about game integrity?
Why you changed your mind from scum ND to town Sulit so quickly after D1?

[Nephthys]

Cool...I was thinking try researching like a trial. Pick a town or scum read you have and then do everything you can to prove that you're wrong. Post the results here. Best case you can make. On whomever.

You wanna do this? Or just some sort of analysis?

The last time I did I made that long post about Kalel where I thought he was less scummy after than I did before.

Just seen this.

As a follow up, I'm gonna ask you to go back over him and see whether, in your eyes, he's implemented everything he's been taught TO SOLVE rather than just not be scumread.

[Nephthys]

Since Vapor is now the biggest wagon I was re-reading him as I just don't have a good read on him. Overall I feel something off on him, specially D1. The posts I found more relevant are this:

man, bomb's goose is cooked

say goodbye to surviving past N1

my first game to be fully confident in his townlean, this is pure magic

attempting a weak, half-assed list of reads

bozo is town, I really dislike how he's doing stuff, finding a team and being too certain about it for his own good. Dare I suggest, dear bozo, that both me and bomb are town and you should leave us alone, otherwise there will be consequences

dargo - could be that 1 scum

e.m.c - early town, but he admitted to being a lil' shit that has no qualms about stabbing us in the back. He can act better than the average player

foodcoats - have you guys noticed? he's implementing humor this time, it's very abrasive, I want to see what type of colors foodcoats will display in his posts

Kitsune - a newbie or pretending to be one, letting his hand being guided by others. Can't say anything else

Fox - I can't use that word for Fox but so far he's uninspiring

ND is probably town and having fun

Neph - I townlean Neph too easily every game, I can't catch him in scum mode

##VOTE Temasek

as per usual, don't be a J and quote this post later to rub it in my face

Pretty accurate reads on the town ones to be honest, but the part saying that there will be consequences to Bozo is weird. And the naked vote on Temasek is also weird because he didn't even got a mention on his reads.

↑EspressoPatronum: "My question for you is this: would you say your play was different this game compared to M1007 and M47? As an objective ..."
There's no difference between me in this game and previous ones. A Nebraska restaurant manager mentioned that my entrance felt a bit 'defeated' and dargo called me scared, but all of that happened in the beginning and I've explained why.

My initial reaction upon receiving my alignment was pure joy, but then something changed after I saw various roles and realised I'm left with nothing. I can't mention anything else without breaching the integrity of this game.

Explain to me why you aren't scum this game, Espresso.

This is absolutely non-sense considering he claimed VT and there is no way I can see a VT “breaching the integrity of the game”. It's like he is preparing some kind of claim.

There were that post about that were only 4 Mafia but he explained it later and it's a plausible explanation.

The last minute vote on ND shows he and ND/Sulit can ́t be scum together.

This are all on D1, then his posts on N2 and D2 didn ́t stood out, but I found his reads on N3 pretty great (the fact they are close to mine have an effect of course)

BuG (town) - townie potty mouthed boy
Chaqa (town) - my man, nobody touch this guy or else...town

dam​o (scum candidate) - you scumbo, you dirty bird you, not giving a flying monkey after N1
dargo (null) - uncertain, I'm not familiar with any of gramps' dargo's meta

foodcoats (scum candidate) - ringleader
Fox (null) - was visited by mafia hooker so there's that

KalelCheese (null) - a shy fidgety newbie, not sure what to make of him
Kitsune (town) - townie who took a ride on a flying carpet


Man​iac (town) - VT, I trust him with his reactions and he's so gutsy
ND/sulit - townie reactions but not that certain

Nephthy​s (scum candidate) - scumbo potential, Neph why you do this evil?
rdrivera2005 (town)

Temasek2​2 (scumbo)
same play as when he was scum

@Vapor - What you meant with that remark about game integrity?
Why you changed your mind from scum ND to town Sulit so quickly after D1?

What are your thoughts on Vapor then leaving out food in his next post about scum less than an hour after his last read list?

[rdrivera2005]

@Nepthys (won't reply to not flood the thread)
Goid catch, I didn't see it. Re-reading the context, Food made a lot of posts on that page (149) and Vapor addressed him in the message before. Could be a scum inconsistency. Want to hear Vapor about it and also about my questions.

[KalelChase]

Just finished reading the weekend.... Oy. GG Xor

And then there were 16….

Seems like a lot of discussions around who we should be hunting SK/Gamora/scum which some have called out as a distraction (and I agree).

Trying a new system for creating a scumdetector. Note that the results below fly in the face of my gut list so I'm going to have to reevaluate.

Process: I did ISO on messages since daybreak for each player left. I started at 3pm Central (so current up to post #1731 (Page 171). Giving each synopsis line a point (T/N/S) and adding them up (1/0/-1). Question marks is relative to the identity of the subject of the statement… might go back and fill those in as we go.

Townie: providing analysis, showing frustration, pushing back with questions
Null: re-posting information without analysis
Scum: Trying to call out role, interrupting, posting action without analysis

Obviously once these KPI are posted scum can use them to play the system, so I won’t be doing this again exactly this way even if it does work.

Note: Can’t figure out if activity should count… low 3rd posters (-1), high 3rd (+1)

Note: If you have a different numerical value for the statements below then you can add and subtract yourself and see what different totals you get.

Name (Posts/Words): Statement (point)

BunnyGo (43/1247): Total (-2) = Scumlean
High noise to signal ratio (-1). Repost BG’s & BB top 3 with no additional analysis (-1). Jumps on Dargorygel’s ‘saving the Vision” (-1). Covers for Damo’s “Code” (?). Pushes back on Damo for some real analysis (+1).

Chaqa (31/942): Total (+2) = Townlean
Posts top three without reasons (-1). Asks “If you had a stone who would you give it to?” (-1). Provides D1 Wagon Thanos analysis (+1). Accuses Rivera of SK, based on Rivera’s claim that Town no longer has time stone (+1). Accused Damo with reasons (+1). Talks about not needing to worry about Gamora (+1). Colaborates with foodcoats against Rev (0)

Foodcoats (20/595): Total (+2) = Townlean
Posted Vision scan recommend without reasons (-1). Voted without reason (-1). Analysis on early posts (+1). Anti-Kitsune with analysis (+1). Pointing out Kitune anomaly (+1). Gave reason for Neph to be town (?). Gives reasons for Maniac to be town (?). Followed by several short analysis (+1)

Damo (20/595): Total (1) = Townlean
List of claims (+1). RdR vote is false logic, without listing out that fallacy (-1). Collaborate with their own post to list out targets with no analysis (-1). Clarified the Chaqa list clearing status (+1). Asked fox for groupings that work (+1)

Espresso (17/907): Total (0) = Null
Claim Roleblock (0). Part of the Claims conversation (-1). Thanos analysis (+1).

Dargorygel (17/749): Total (5) = Townlean
Advice to Vision, no rational (-1). Wants Vision to look as soon as possible (+1). Thanos/Gamora relationship evaluation (+1). Ribs Chaqa for the “who… stone question” (+1). Channel’s Bozo for a plan of action (+1). Interested in End (0). Gives ‘Supercop’ analysis of Vision’s power (+1). Makes vote with rational (+1)

Jamiet (13/304): Total (5) = TOWN
Calls out low posters (+1). Asks for clarification from Damo on RDR false logic (+1). Call out Chaqa on 14 scumreads & focusing on votes only (+1). Asks fox for their reads (+1). Provides read and analysis on Temasek (+1).

Kitsune (11/890): Total (2) = Townlean
Asks who the doctor was ‘on’ (-1). Posts advice to vision with no rational (-1). Votes Bunny with rational (+1). Tries to coordinate Nephyhys read on Bunny (0). Thie analysis (+1). SK/Gamora Relationship (+1). Rational response to Fox’s accusation of waiting to last to vote (+1).

Maniac (11/702): Total (6) = Townlean
Pushes on Kit for asking doc (+1). Vote for RDR with rational (+1). Clarifys wasting look statement (+1). Question and analysis of Yuuki lynch (+1) with questions to 4 of the players (+1). RDR analysis (+1).

RDR (10/524): Total (1) = Townlean
Analysis on Xorxes getting killed after being revealed (+1). Push on Dargoryl stone plan (+1). Attacked by Chaqa and defends aggressive-non-rational (-1).

Fox (7/323): Total (2) = Townlean
Self-analysis of scum list is rational (+1). Has SK hut rational, but checks with group before adding noise (+1). Coordinating ‘trial’ with Bunny (0).

Sulit (5/99): Total (-1) = Scumlean
Vision list without analysis (-1). Asks for TLDR (0).

Neph (4/39): Total (1) = Townlean
Vote with no analysis (-1). Vision without analysis (-1). Getting freaked, but includes advice (+1). Tries to coordinate SK/Vision whammy (+1). Asks food about reading opening pages (+1)

Temasek (4/39): Total (2) = Scumlean
Vision without analysis (-1). Vote without analysis (-1).

Kalel (2/87): Total (2) = Townlean
Asks question about methodology (+1). Puts together Read synopsis (+1). Is trying his best (+1). Claims to be VT (-1).

If you think low posting is scummy then add 1 point to the top 5 and subtract 1 point from the bottom 5. If you stack rank the points as is here is the list.

TOWN
+6 Maniac
+5 Jamiet
+5 Dargory
+2 Chaqa
+2 Fox
+2 Temasek
+2 Kalel
+2 Food
+2 Kitusne
+1 Neph
+1 RDR
+1 Damo
0 Espreso
-1 Sulit
-2 Bunnygo
SCUM

[KalelChase]

Note... missed Vapor due to no posts

[foodcoats]

Kitsune is too smart and organized to be this clueless. Even if he's specifically new to mafia, he's putting on a front.

BunnyGo has a habit of jumping into conversations between others lol. I am inclined to see that as townie, Bunny eager to get into the mix.

Why is this town points? It would seem that jumping into a conversation between others would be a scum move to derail, or even redirect, a conversation. Wouldn't a townie (unless needing to defend themselves), want to watch and see if the 2 person exchange reveals anything, or watch to see if anyone pivots erratically?

Also possible, yes. I was seeing it as "authenticity" which scum have to fake.

[KalelChase]

I don't think we should give weight to more posts/words. As I've gone through enough of the ISOs to see that some post a lot of one word responses, and also seen that some provide very long posts (and re-posts of information) that provided no new intelligence.

This new way I'm tracking is subjective evaluation (I don't have a grasp on how to identify S/S and bussing and pockeing and such quite yet), but at least it shows you guys my rational and how I'm weighting activity.

My own low posting lately was mostly due to the weekend. My sweet spot for posting is towards COB GMT-6 during the week.

For the record I am having fun. On D2 I swore to myself I'd never do this again. Now today, I'm trying to think about how to improve my next game.