M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[FlaviusAetius]

OK I am at the top of page 154 in my CATCHUP, I will hold there and do my ISO on KOTP then resume

[sweetandcool]

Very confident Towncore:

damo
RHK

These players have been solving in a way I would not expect scum. If either of them are Mafia then great acting job.

Probably Town:

Jamiet

I am well lauded as having 100% accuracy in assessing Jamiet's alignment. I'm too tired to recall why he is Town. But one big reason is that his reaction to Balki D1 seemed to not come from being teammates. If they were teammates, Jamiet would have deathtunneled Balki D1 and that absolutely did not happen.

Unsure:

Bunny
lfisch
rdr

I actually have some good vibes on rdr. But I have thought so little about these players that I can't say confidently where they are.

Scum:

Pirate
Flav
Bozo

I have covered why Pirate is Mafia. Essentially, his lurking does not match his usual Town meta when "too busy". He has shown nuance this game that shows he is reading the thread. This is contradictory of the persona he has crafted, where he claims he is too busy and overwhelmed.

I looked at Flav's last game and I think he has done a good acting job this game.

He does play this way, critiquing players reads and play. Focusing on setup stuff. Totally freaking out about obvious jokes, etc.

The difference is that he has dialed up these qualities to 11. This game he is VERY focused on heckling, and has almost exclusively focused everything but forming authentic reads of players.

If you read through M89 you will see how much less focused he is on heckling and how he actually does develop reads in that game. Though yes, it turns out it is normal for him to pounce on little insignificant things and then treat them like they are important (like Fox's spreadsheet).

Bozo is the one player I could be wrong about. But his play today seems extremely focused on controlling Town and attempting to force a MK. He protects his teammate, Pirate by assuming the RB means Pirate is Town. He tries to focus us on brainbomb's incorrect reads to MK Jamiet or sweetandcool.

I also think he took that opportunity N1 to further pit me against Bunny, and hopefully the rest of Town, by suggesting Bunny was trying to set me up for a MK when Bunny said how awful of a team player I was.

Mafia must be on the verge of winning, so they are pulling all the stops by claiming RB and Lawman. It's easy to imagine they thought Town would likely follow meta by not flipping the RB or the Lawman claim today. I think Bozo can get away with this play because in reality he does have a gun, it's just for Mafia. I think their plan today was to either MK Jamiet or sweetandcool, or eventually push lurkers so long as it's not Pirate.

[sweetandcool]

Not at all. I am simply quite verbose. My belief that the Mafia get four guns was extremely firm, based on the fact that the setup says that this is the case. I did not say "I'm not sure but maybe they get four", I did not convey doubt or uncertainty, in any way.

You are nit-picking over very minor issues of syntax and I am not going to entertain this discussion point any further.

I agree with Jamiet here.

But I would also like to point out that Jamiet nitpicked me for literally the same thing, when I also said "I think" about the setup.

Perhaps I was suffering from confirmation bias due to heavily scumreading you at the time, sorry.

To be fair I was lying

But it just happened to be the way I worded it.

I appreciate your apology, thank you Jamiet.

[lfischl]

I missed this, but lfischl had seen damo's post. It is still odd that he copied damo's reads, and that damo then immediately changed them.

##vote king

I've scumread rdr most of the game, kotp is obvscum at least in my eyes, I think the RB is fake, and the last scum for me was between bozo and flav, I think I posted that before bozo claimed he had the shot but I'm not sure

Then where did the scum read of Jamie come from here:

Predictions of the final 3 mafia:

bozo: RHK, Jamie, sweetandcool
sweetandcool: Flavius, kingofthepirates, bozo
Jamie: bozo, lfischl, kingofthepirates
rdrivera: lfischl, Jamie, Flavius
BunnyGo: kingofthepirates, lfischl, Jamie
damo: kingofthepirates, lfischl, RHK
RHK: Flavius, lfischl, rdrivera

Jamie, kingofthepirates, rdr

Still catching up, internet is awful right now so that and responses will be slow

Also, why have you scum read rdrivera most of the game, and why is kingofthepirates obviously scum?

For the first post, I've had a long couple days and mixed that list and the list with jamie up.

KOTP: There's no way the RB is real, like why on earth would any experienced scum use the RB, the only people who would use an RB there are inexperienced scum, like KOTP(I think he's inexperienced), so it's just a ruse

Rdr: I originally thought he was scum with bunny as I thought he got saved at the end of D1, but I do think that wagon could have been balki bussing and I just haven't gotten great vibes since

Jamie: This was kinda a toss-up between jamie and flav, I'm almost 100% sure everyone else in the game is town, and my gut told me jamie more than flav

[bozotheclown]

Very confident Towncore:

damo
RHK

These players have been solving in a way I would not expect scum. If either of them are Mafia then great acting job.

Probably Town:

Jamiet

I am well lauded as having 100% accuracy in assessing Jamiet's alignment. I'm too tired to recall why he is Town. But one big reason is that his reaction to Balki D1 seemed to not come from being teammates. If they were teammates, Jamiet would have deathtunneled Balki D1 and that absolutely did not happen.

Unsure:

Bunny
lfisch
rdr

I actually have some good vibes on rdr. But I have thought so little about these players that I can't say confidently where they are.

Scum:

Pirate
Flav
Bozo

I have covered why Pirate is Mafia. Essentially, his lurking does not match his usual Town meta when "too busy". He has shown nuance this game that shows he is reading the thread. This is contradictory of the persona he has crafted, where he claims he is too busy and overwhelmed.

I looked at Flav's last game and I think he has done a good acting job this game.

He does play this way, critiquing players reads and play. Focusing on setup stuff. Totally freaking out about obvious jokes, etc.

The difference is that he has dialed up these qualities to 11. This game he is VERY focused on heckling, and has almost exclusively focused everything but forming authentic reads of players.

If you read through M89 you will see how much less focused he is on heckling and how he actually does develop reads in that game. Though yes, it turns out it is normal for him to pounce on little insignificant things and then treat them like they are important (like Fox's spreadsheet).

Bozo is the one player I could be wrong about. But his play today seems extremely focused on controlling Town and attempting to force a MK. He protects his teammate, Pirate by assuming the RB means Pirate is Town. He tries to focus us on brainbomb's incorrect reads to MK Jamiet or sweetandcool.

I also think he took that opportunity N1 to further pit me against Bunny, and hopefully the rest of Town, by suggesting Bunny was trying to set me up for a MK when Bunny said how awful of a team player I was.

Mafia must be on the verge of winning, so they are pulling all the stops by claiming RB and Lawman. It's easy to imagine they thought Town would likely follow meta by not flipping the RB or the Lawman claim today. I think Bozo can get away with this play because in reality he does have a gun, it's just for Mafia. I think their plan today was to either MK Jamiet or sweetandcool, or eventually push lurkers so long as it's not Pirate.

I find damo hard to detect as mafia. Can you give me some examples of "solving in a way you would not expect scum"?

[bozotheclown]

##vote king

I've scumread rdr most of the game, kotp is obvscum at least in my eyes, I think the RB is fake, and the last scum for me was between bozo and flav, I think I posted that before bozo claimed he had the shot but I'm not sure

Then where did the scum read of Jamie come from here:

Jamie, kingofthepirates, rdr

Still catching up, internet is awful right now so that and responses will be slow

Also, why have you scum read rdrivera most of the game, and why is kingofthepirates obviously scum?

For the first post, I've had a long couple days and mixed that list and the list with jamie up.

KOTP: There's no way the RB is real, like why on earth would any experienced scum use the RB, the only people who would use an RB there are inexperienced scum, like KOTP(I think he's inexperienced), so it's just a ruse

Rdr: I originally thought he was scum with bunny as I thought he got saved at the end of D1, but I do think that wagon could have been balki bussing and I just haven't gotten great vibes since

Jamie: This was kinda a toss-up between jamie and flav, I'm almost 100% sure everyone else in the game is town, and my gut told me jamie more than flav

Why couldn't the mafia use the RB to try to make kingofthepirates looks suspicious for the reasons you cited?

[FlaviusAetius]

KOTP is fairly active in the beginning cracks a few jokes and says he wants to go out with a bang I think his D1 is going to be drastically different than his D2 and D3(mafia chat changed him?)

IN FACT
KOTP's D1 is 23 posts whereas his total post count is 37, why IMO KOTP did not plan to be a lurker but probably was told to be one

this is actually hilarious 10 posts of his D1 are in the game start so they dont even count for D1 so
23 for D1
10 for game start
either I am doing my math wrong or KOTP has made a grand total of four messages N1-->D3
even if that proves to be wrong and he made 14, still not a great look, from someone who planned to be active
------------------------------------------
D1
Joke vote on Bunny
Questioning sweet(one of the first reactions
Mentions chainsawing a lot its not on the mafia dictionary so IDK what that means

Agrees to let sweet stuff cook (GOOD)
Suspicious of Jamie being extra upset than normal (GOOD)
Doesnt want to kill lurkers D1 (GOOD) (more evidence he did not plan to lurk

Says he caught up page 16 but still doesnt understand the case on food maybe he will later

Also questions the case on fischl due to mere lurkage(GOOD, pushing his views)
Still wants more from him tho IDK seems like a lot of his time is being spent on already answered issues D1

KOTP helps PUSH the Food wagon and wants to make sure it doesnt die , he likes my reasonings(now he doesnt??)
He also tries to keep the pairing of DIP & FOOD alive( another voice leading Ham in the wrong direction)
----------------------------
D2(nothing N1)
He says he rereads D1(so no problems with food case then!)
Makes good arguments against Balki that honestly people missed , yet votes Eden anyways??? No sense

D3
That was it for his D2, and N2 then he comes into D3 saying he'll be more active...he wasnt.

Now he has BACK to the food case claiming it has holes now, when before every single other time he's mentioned it its been in SUPPORT

Mentions zero reasons why he scumreads me and just jokes around with Bunny besides that. Also just publicly saying he is going to find out who shot what guns, why? Not even going to engage with the arguments for why not to do that?

Views fischl as lurker so votes him, he knows a lurker will die today he knows he is a lurker so directing attention away

Claims he wouldnt sheep his own top wagon did that today
Claims fischl is a bigger lurker than him fischl has posted more though, so where does he get that from either their both roughly equal or KOTP is worse.
Not that fischl is his "most" confident scumread. Everything that comes out of KOTP just doesnt make sense

He finally ends with "Im not going to give you the reasons why food case was bad Flav just yet!!!" We are running out of time so why is that?

[FlaviusAetius]

Very confident Towncore:

damo
RHK

These players have been solving in a way I would not expect scum. If either of them are Mafia then great acting job.

Probably Town:

Jamiet

I am well lauded as having 100% accuracy in assessing Jamiet's alignment. I'm too tired to recall why he is Town. But one big reason is that his reaction to Balki D1 seemed to not come from being teammates. If they were teammates, Jamiet would have deathtunneled Balki D1 and that absolutely did not happen.

Unsure:

Bunny
lfisch
rdr

I actually have some good vibes on rdr. But I have thought so little about these players that I can't say confidently where they are.

Scum:

Pirate
Flav
Bozo

I have covered why Pirate is Mafia. Essentially, his lurking does not match his usual Town meta when "too busy". He has shown nuance this game that shows he is reading the thread. This is contradictory of the persona he has crafted, where he claims he is too busy and overwhelmed.

I looked at Flav's last game and I think he has done a good acting job this game.

He does play this way, critiquing players reads and play. Focusing on setup stuff. Totally freaking out about obvious jokes, etc.

The difference is that he has dialed up these qualities to 11. This game he is VERY focused on heckling, and has almost exclusively focused everything but forming authentic reads of players.

If you read through M89 you will see how much less focused he is on heckling and how he actually does develop reads in that game. Though yes, it turns out it is normal for him to pounce on little insignificant things and then treat them like they are important (like Fox's spreadsheet).

Bozo is the one player I could be wrong about. But his play today seems extremely focused on controlling Town and attempting to force a MK. He protects his teammate, Pirate by assuming the RB means Pirate is Town. He tries to focus us on brainbomb's incorrect reads to MK Jamiet or sweetandcool.

I also think he took that opportunity N1 to further pit me against Bunny, and hopefully the rest of Town, by suggesting Bunny was trying to set me up for a MK when Bunny said how awful of a team player I was.

Mafia must be on the verge of winning, so they are pulling all the stops by claiming RB and Lawman. It's easy to imagine they thought Town would likely follow meta by not flipping the RB or the Lawman claim today. I think Bozo can get away with this play because in reality he does have a gun, it's just for Mafia. I think their plan today was to either MK Jamiet or sweetandcool, or eventually push lurkers so long as it's not Pirate.

This is just false every single day I have pushed a wagon and formed reads on them done real analysis, last game I relied on Kak's reads which might be why you think I was more sophisticated last game. But that was just a ploy so I could get the tadpole but that didnt work and I started actually believing everything Kak said

[FlaviusAetius]

FINAL ANALYSIS ON KOTP;

I went in with the logic that his case is nothing more than just being your regular average lurker

I discovered
1. That its likely mafia told him to be a lurker do you know why? He wasnt super active D1 but he wasnt a lurker . Then he becomes a ghost he says because he was "sick". Do you know what I do when Im sick ? I play even more games because now I have time basically to myself. So unless he has us believing he was sleeping for like 5 days this is just a lie

2. His D1 wasnt that productive either and basically everything he says then he now doesnt believe in, (sweet, lurkers, food case, jamie suspicions)

3. His main topic of conversation D3 has been how much he doesnt like the food case from D1 , yet in the few comments he made about how he caught up D1 and reread D1 etc, he never mentions the food case again.

Whoever is partners with food was there last game and wants to D3 MK me again

[Jamiet99uk]

Then where did the scum read of Jamie come from here:

Also, why have you scum read rdrivera most of the game, and why is kingofthepirates obviously scum?

For the first post, I've had a long couple days and mixed that list and the list with jamie up.

KOTP: There's no way the RB is real, like why on earth would any experienced scum use the RB, the only people who would use an RB there are inexperienced scum, like KOTP(I think he's inexperienced), so it's just a ruse

Rdr: I originally thought he was scum with bunny as I thought he got saved at the end of D1, but I do think that wagon could have been balki bussing and I just haven't gotten great vibes since

Jamie: This was kinda a toss-up between jamie and flav, I'm almost 100% sure everyone else in the game is town, and my gut told me jamie more than flav

Why couldn't the mafia use the RB to try to make kingofthepirates looks suspicious for the reasons you cited?

Here's what's currently going on:

[FlaviusAetius]

I think sweet is right mafia is pulling out all the stops on purpose
No way fischl defends KOTP this much and is also mafia, I think the KOTP wagon is sus it just doesnt sit right with me but I now understand the reasons behind it

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to go and watch the football in 10 minutes, does anyone have any questions for me now, in case I'm not on at EoD?

[FlaviusAetius]

OH, fischl is NOT defending KOTP in fact its just bozo who thinks it was real right?

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm going to go and watch the football in 10 minutes, does anyone have any questions for me now, in case I'm not on at EoD?

Why were you extra unpleasant D1?

[FlaviusAetius]

Im going to catchup and find the reasons out for fischl then Ill make final determination one thing is for sure RDR is not scum I already hard pushed him D2

[damo666]

I'm going to go and watch the football in 10 minutes, does anyone have any questions for me now, in case I'm not on at EoD?

Me too. I'll pop back at half time.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to go and watch the football in 10 minutes, does anyone have any questions for me now, in case I'm not on at EoD?

Why were you extra unpleasant D1?

Unpleasant how? I got upset about people such as Balki pushing a stupid early wagon on me for stupid reasons. I was not deliberately unpleasant for the sake of it, that I recall.

[sweetandcool]

I'm going to go and watch the football in 10 minutes, does anyone have any questions for me now, in case I'm not on at EoD?

Why were you extra unpleasant D1?

Slander

[kingofthepirates]

@flavius
here's the case I have. I didn't have any problems before, but during N2 I decide to go look back at something that left a decent impression on me, which I then noticed problems with. And believe it or not, I was indeed either asleep or away from my computer for the better part of 3 days due to sickness. I very nearly sub'd out N2 because of how I was feeling and how much time I was away. I'm now being dragged away for driving lessons, so I'm almost certainly missing EOD, but here's a quick rundown of your case on me particularly the D3 part: would not sheep own wagon: ITS A JOKE, I bolded, capitalized, and underlined that. post count wise fischl has posted more, but look at character count and theres a different story (THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE ALSO SAID!!!). I detailed why I voted eden D2 as well, and personally D1 voting felt more off that a possibly buddying balki. I'd like to stress that all this actually supports my idea mentioned at the end of the following long post talking about page 44.

I think that there are several parts that do not add up, which are either indicative of not fully reading (NIA, but I got the impression that reading WAS done and you had FULLY looked through food to build this case, so unlikely) or cherry picking posts (which would be scum indicative, and possibly that you were attempting to use this post to 1)build town cred and/or 2)push the MK).

point 1 is moot, flavius says that it's "whatever".

2.He says we should NOT be voting for sweet...why? Because he legit claimed a town role how can we vote for someone like that when its so easy to verify?
YET
He then goes onto sweet; WHY? Never explained

Food does explain the reasoning, in the very post where the vote is present (both times, pg 17 AND 36)! And also in a post where he responds directly to you! possibly exaggerated, but I don't like how much is missed here.

3. During the whole Jamie thing do you know what food did? He votes DAMO. To "diffuse the tensions" like? Jamie gets mad early game when people go on him for being mad, it always happens and the wagon ALWAYS dies. Do you know what that whole thing DOES tell us though? INFORMATION. foodcoats is trying to diffuse the tensions for no reason...

food clarifies that its a joke, and even elaborates in a direct response to you pressing him on the joke vote!

4. And you know what else about that damo vote I just went back and look at this; he INITIALLY said that we should be going after lurkers D1, then flipped when I pressed on him again to say it was just one big joke.

This post is true, but ignores previous posts, such as HB on pg 7 who already mentioned this. Idk if this is just not seeing the post, or trying to steal a little bit of credit. I lean towards the second since I expect that if one is making a full argument for why someone is scum, they would've read all or almost all of that someone's posts.

In conclusion, flavius was either not reading, which is not the vibe I'm getting from all the previous activity, or was intentionally skipping posts, which is scum indicative. Please tell me if I missed anything. Flavius has very clearly read all my stuff, so I'm very much inclined to eliminate option 1. so it leaves flavius as scum intentionally leaving things out. That's my case there.

[FlaviusAetius]

@flavius
here's the case I have. I didn't have any problems before, but during N2 I decide to go look back at something that left a decent impression on me, which I then noticed problems with. And believe it or not, I was indeed either asleep or away from my computer for the better part of 3 days due to sickness. I very nearly sub'd out N2 because of how I was feeling and how much time I was away. I'm now being dragged away for driving lessons, so I'm almost certainly missing EOD, but here's a quick rundown of your case on me particularly the D3 part: would not sheep own wagon: ITS A JOKE, I bolded, capitalized, and underlined that. post count wise fischl has posted more, but look at character count and theres a different story (THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE ALSO SAID!!!). I detailed why I voted eden D2 as well, and personally D1 voting felt more off that a possibly buddying balki. I'd like to stress that all this actually supports my idea mentioned at the end of the following long post talking about page 44.

I think that there are several parts that do not add up, which are either indicative of not fully reading (NIA, but I got the impression that reading WAS done and you had FULLY looked through food to build this case, so unlikely) or cherry picking posts (which would be scum indicative, and possibly that you were attempting to use this post to 1)build town cred and/or 2)push the MK).

point 1 is moot, flavius says that it's "whatever".

2.He says we should NOT be voting for sweet...why? Because he legit claimed a town role how can we vote for someone like that when its so easy to verify?
YET
He then goes onto sweet; WHY? Never explained

Food does explain the reasoning, in the very post where the vote is present (both times, pg 17 AND 36)! And also in a post where he responds directly to you! possibly exaggerated, but I don't like how much is missed here.

3. During the whole Jamie thing do you know what food did? He votes DAMO. To "diffuse the tensions" like? Jamie gets mad early game when people go on him for being mad, it always happens and the wagon ALWAYS dies. Do you know what that whole thing DOES tell us though? INFORMATION. foodcoats is trying to diffuse the tensions for no reason...

food clarifies that its a joke, and even elaborates in a direct response to you pressing him on the joke vote!

4. And you know what else about that damo vote I just went back and look at this; he INITIALLY said that we should be going after lurkers D1, then flipped when I pressed on him again to say it was just one big joke.

This post is true, but ignores previous posts, such as HB on pg 7 who already mentioned this. Idk if this is just not seeing the post, or trying to steal a little bit of credit. I lean towards the second since I expect that if one is making a full argument for why someone is scum, they would've read all or almost all of that someone's posts.

In conclusion, flavius was either not reading, which is not the vibe I'm getting from all the previous activity, or was intentionally skipping posts, which is scum indicative. Please tell me if I missed anything. Flavius has very clearly read all my stuff, so I'm very much inclined to eliminate option 1. so it leaves flavius as scum intentionally leaving things out. That's my case there.

ALL of this is WRONG I will explain why then I will take a shower