MAFIA XXXVIII: INFINITY WAR

[snowy801]

anyway I'm out good night kids
be good

[DoubtingThomas]

this convo is as comical as that bb-jamie shit last game

[worcej]

@Worcej: This is unfortunate, but I am inclined to give you credence. You say that you think Fox was also pushing you right after all this started? Do you think he was PR/Info mining?

I 100% think Fox was mining since he didn't drop it when the slip was obvious. I give snowy more of a clear because he backed off, but Fox kept plowing ahead on me.

Example one:

Yeah, like Snowy says, if you're a VT, you wouldn't be automatically under the impression that VTs know their name, because you would have gotten a generic PM...

So you're either a PR, or you're scum, or you're the SK.

Example two:

Worcej, you're claiming that you're a VT, and you're claiming that you know your name?

Example three:

Okay, well, I'm a VT and I don't know my name. So...

The only thing Fox does by pushing me is give everyone the same information - that I am a PR or Scum. I consider this effectively 'shinning a spot light' on the issue to make it blatantly obvious - which sure, it's good odds that I am not town (4 town PRs vs 5 scum), but why would you take that gamble as town? If Fox was town, the logical play would be to stfu and hope that goes through undetected instead of broadcasting it. He effectively decided to throw a PR slip out into the open, which even as a noob I struggle to understand why you would do that? I really want any experienced person here to explain the value of town pointing out a PR player so blatantly?

[bozotheclown]

One downside to Gamora claiming is if the SK gets the one shot from the item Smith. Although they are gonna know who Gamora is by then anyway...

I think this is a case where Gamora claiming is a benefit, otherwise the SK could get the Soul Stone without anyone else knowing.

[dargorygel]

So the case against me is that I called ND grumpy and yet didn't think he was scum for it... on D1... before we'd gotten out of any joke phase.
And then I have a life...

I think we've seen some interesting things, though.
Xorxes and Ghug team playing (although I might be OMGUSing) And I mistrust the suggestion that the soul stoner should claim it. The part of the idea that I DO like, though, contrary to what I think someone else said... is that the soul stoner claiming would give US information as well as scum. And closing the information gap is a good thing to do... still thinking about this.
Brain is hopping around like normal... trying things on for size...
Lots of people claim not to have read the set up... this is bad.

Good night.

[dargorygel]

and fwiw... I spent most of the evening watching my grandbaby play the ukelele. That will always win over reading D1 mafia. No offense intended...

[RagingIke297]

and fwiw... I spent most of the evening watching my grandbaby play the ukelele. That will always win over reading D1 mafia. No offense intended...

I feel slighted....

[worcej]

and fwiw... I spent most of the evening watching my grandbaby play the ukelele. That will always win over reading D1 mafia. No offense intended...

If anyone takes offense to that, they are also a shit person

[bozotheclown]

I think it is critical that the Soul Stone holder does not risk getting lynched. If he is getting votes and can't be online at EOD, it may be necessary to claim since the SK will take any opportunity to try to get him lynched, and can use the Power Stone to swing the vote.

Can you think of any reason they shouldn't claim now?

I thought that it would be better to keep the mafia from knowing the location of the Soul Stone until it was necessary, but since brainbomb has already claimed to have the Soul Stone, if his claim is fake, I think the holder of the Soul Stone should claim to avoid confusion. Confusion about the location of the Soul Stone only helps the SK.

[DoubtingThomas]

I think it is critical that the Soul Stone holder does not risk getting lynched. If he is getting votes and can't be online at EOD, it may be necessary to claim since the SK will take any opportunity to try to get him lynched, and can use the Power Stone to swing the vote.

Can you think of any reason they shouldn't claim now?

I thought that it would be better to keep the mafia from knowing the location of the Soul Stone until it was necessary, but since brainbomb has already claimed to have the Soul Stone, if his claim is fake, I think the holder of the Soul Stone should claim to avoid confusion. Confusion about the location of the Soul Stone only helps the SK.

I like how because it's brainbomb, we already assume the possibility that there will be a cc'er eventually (despite nobody counter claiming for the past couple hours)

[brainbomb]

Okay dargo.

●One thing id considered is you tend to be fairly jokey as town. I agreed with your ND thought.

□I just like to see a first REAL.wagon form on someone other than myself. It seems kinda dumb to keep making me top wagon every game. I admit I was just following the crowd a bit on you.

□That was an even keel reply wrt ghug and xorx. I did get a little bit of authority team appeal. But why do you only see it with ghug and xorx? Not me?

□I am seeing whats out there, why arent you?

□I could push a variety of directions.

□Yavuz wasnt gonna be around early
□Hr is never around early

□Bo is sometimes around early and was excited to play. I just dont wanna bicker with anyone all game this game.

□Is Jamie forcing the issue? Why is he trying to siphon anti town behavior this game instead of just waiting for it to happen? Its apparently inevitable to jamie and flash and ezio that ill fake claim at some point. Claiming my soul stone is apparently pro-town. I wasnt going to bother until xorx, ghug and co. Said it was good for town.

□is foxcastle really considering a no lynch when sk has no nk yet?

□bozo is DEFINETELY not the sk this game. I very strongly feel bozo is town.


Other town
Squiggs
Xorx
Ghug
Worcej
Vecna
Chippee

[brainbomb]

Can you think of any reason they shouldn't claim now?

I thought that it would be better to keep the mafia from knowing the location of the Soul Stone until it was necessary, but since brainbomb has already claimed to have the Soul Stone, if his claim is fake, I think the holder of the Soul Stone should claim to avoid confusion. Confusion about the location of the Soul Stone only helps the SK.

I like how because it's brainbomb, we already assume the possibility that there will be a cc'er eventually (despite nobody counter claiming for the past couple hours)

For real if theres a cc'er itll be someone who hates me and wants to teach me a lesson for faking all the time. Nobody else would do it. Itd be gamethrowing to fake gamora. The whole point is not to help make sk get extra kp. Faking gamora is not like faking a rb, yer actively assisting in givinh extra town deaths

[ND]

@worcej

I've thought about what you posted and I appreciate you chunking that exchange like that because it is easier to read. I encourage everyone to read it.

A lot of games there is very little to go on D1. One of the biggest things I look for in the initial stages is motivation. What is the motivation of someone to push something like this? Why and how does that add benefit to the town. As you say, it is 'shining a light' on something that if ignored may not even be an issue at all. This is a specific case where a player's specific actions led to something which is of direct impact to the town. He got called out on his push. I think that his actions are scum-indicative. I see no merit to them. I've been considering other players as well and wrote about that pages ago, but that is minor to this example. At the bare minimum I am inclined to ##VOTE FOXCASTLE I want to hear him elaborate more and if he has already fucked up then perhaps he will slip more or do something else scum-indicative.

[ChippeRock]

I have a slight SK read on Vecna since he was so quick to try lynching me and put an end vote on me. Town has no incentive to lynch me if they think I'm town and Mafia would rather lynch a player they think is a non-vanilla townie.

His reasons for lynching me make no sense either.

Whoever has the Soul Stone needs to let us know by Day 2 because that's when the SK will know and the Doctor will need to protect him that night.

[DoubtingThomas]

I thought that it would be better to keep the mafia from knowing the location of the Soul Stone until it was necessary, but since brainbomb has already claimed to have the Soul Stone, if his claim is fake, I think the holder of the Soul Stone should claim to avoid confusion. Confusion about the location of the Soul Stone only helps the SK.

I like how because it's brainbomb, we already assume the possibility that there will be a cc'er eventually (despite nobody counter claiming for the past couple hours)

For real if theres a cc'er itll be someone who hates me and wants to teach me a lesson for faking all the time. Nobody else would do it. Itd be gamethrowing to fake gamora. The whole point is not to help make sk get extra kp. Faking gamora is not like faking a rb, yer actively assisting in givinh extra town deaths

I am gonna treat Brainbomb as soul stone wielder because it doesn't make sense for the real stone keeper to not come out at this point

Mafias wouldn't want to give away the soul stone and SK just gets fucked. I don't see how SK can counter this unless mafias decide to help the SK out. This might be a broken part of the game. Understandable, because the game mechanics are so advanced.

[brainbomb]

Chippee
LOL

What?

You think hes SK because he wants to lynch you and voted End?

[DoubtingThomas]

I have a slight SK read on Vecna since he was so quick to try lynching me and put an end vote on me. Town has no incentive to lynch me if they think I'm town and Mafia would rather lynch a player they think is a non-vanilla townie.

His reasons for lynching me make no sense either.

Whoever has the Soul Stone needs to let us know by Day 2 because that's when the SK will know and the Doctor will need to protect him that night.

why do they need to wait until day 2? why not right now?

if they are just letting brainbomb be brainbomb that's just more awful and gamethrowing

COME THE FUCK OUT NOW OR YOU ARE THROWING GAME

[DoubtingThomas]

@worcej

I've thought about what you posted and I appreciate you chunking that exchange like that because it is easier to read. I encourage everyone to read it.

A lot of games there is very little to go on D1. One of the biggest things I look for in the initial stages is motivation. What is the motivation of someone to push something like this? Why and how does that add benefit to the town. As you say, it is 'shining a light' on something that if ignored may not even be an issue at all. This is a specific case where a player's specific actions led to something which is of direct impact to the town. He got called out on his push. I think that his actions are scum-indicative. I see no merit to them. I've been considering other players as well and wrote about that pages ago, but that is minor to this example. At the bare minimum I am inclined to ##VOTE FOXCASTLE I want to hear him elaborate more and if he has already fucked up then perhaps he will slip more or do something else scum-indicative.

I really agree. I gave stormy shit for trying to bait me, but what Fox has done I think does not have town motivation at all. and I am willing to vote him and end even right now.

@FoxCastle, come out. speak to me. if your response is not good enough I am voting you

[ChippeRock]

Chippee
LOL

What?

You think hes SK because he wants to lynch you and voted End?

No, because his motivations for voting me make no sense. He said something about the SK finding out my role or something like that...

[brainbomb]

Also ND,

A lot of games there is very little to go on D1. One of the biggest things I look for in the initial stages is motivation. What is the motivation of someone to push something like this? Why and how does that add benefit to the town. As you say, it is 'shining a light' on something that if ignored may not even be an issue at all. This is a specific case where a player's specific actions led to something which is of direct impact to the town. He got called out on his push.

□there is motivation behind meta reads which are alignment indicative
□newb players asking questions is a sign of curiousity which can be align indicative
□grudges are not AI
□Mechanics talks can be AI if they appear pro town or are blatantly to flush PR out
□early game can be rich and full of motivation to simply play
□later games dont always have high volume as theres nothing to feel out