Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[xorxes]

PR: xorxes, Vecna
VT: damo

##VOTE mecca since I have to change my vote now.

I meant ##vote macca

[xorxes]

We know there are 10 buddy pairs, of which most likely 4 contain a scum (assumes one is S-S, the rest are S-T)

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

I missed the scout master, but interpret how you will.

You were also counting 6 scum.

[Vecna]

Now who is bad at counting

[xorxes]

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

I missed the scout master, but interpret how you will.

You were also counting 6 scum.

Or maybe not, I guess you meant 4 contain at least one scum.

[worcej]

I'm starting to think I waste way too much time on these things that no one gets lol

Oh no, I definitely got it...

[Hellenic Riot]

I fully agree with you bob.

Sadly, this was forced upon us, as I do not believe that a great many of the people claiming so far were scum.

Ergo, not going along with it would now give us an even bigger handicap than playing the base game as intended.

Lets just swallow the pill and play it out optimally. We can opt to go along and keep it friendly, or just bicker over it and all be miserable.

Ill now be advocating of just doing this smoothly.

I don't remotely buy this argument for such a rapid shift of heart: A whole 2 people had claimed before you. How many is a 'great many' when it's out of two? Are you suggesting that because you don't scumread both Damo *and* xorxes, you therefore had no choice but to claim? This doesn't add up, at all.

Speaking of the claims thus far, I also find Damo deciding to claim when only three or four people had expressed interest in a massclaim to be extremely antitown. Regardless of the wisdom of a massclaim, going on it so rapidly when you're unsure if you have even a third of the players in support is fundamentally poor. This counts for xorxes to a lesser degree too, but damo's jump to claim at the slightest hint of a massclaim really really stinks.

[e.m.c^42]

I think, unlikely all our mechs guys are scum.

[Vecna]

You really dont buy it, or is it a convenient stance for you to take to avoid partaking HR?

If I was scum, what reason would I have to suddenly change my mind and put myself in a potential position of being in a 1v1 or a 3way before D2 is over?

Me claiming PR as scum here is a death sentence. If I was scum I wouldve just consigned myself to "my team will have to carry me, because there is zero reason ill live to endgame".

Do you think as scum I wouldnt be aware this would look weird?

I weighed the pro's and cons, and I decided to put my preferred way of playing the game as secondary.

[Hellenic Riot]

You really dont buy it, or is it a convenient stance for you to take to avoid partaking HR?

If I was scum, what reason would I have to suddenly change my mind and put myself in a potential position of being in a 1v1 or a 3way before D2 is over?

Me claiming PR as scum here is a death sentence. If I was scum I wouldve just consigned myself to "my team will have to carry me, because there is zero reason ill live to endgame".

Do you think as scum I wouldnt be aware this would look weird?

I weighed the pro's and cons, and I decided to put my preferred way of playing the game as secondary.

I notice that this entirely dodges the point I made: What part of two people claiming can possibly be 'a great many' and how many would you have had to scumread to decide not to claim after those two people claimed?

As for scum claiming PR or not, we all know that zero scum claiming PR is suicidal for them, so of course some of them will do it. I see no reason to believe you wouldn't be confident enough that you could get a townie or two lynched and that you would instead prefer someone else to do that active side of the scum game.

And as for me claiming or not; with three PR claims there is obviously no way to avoid a massclaim at this point, and I am a VT. I'm afraid that doesn't remotely let you off the hook for this though.

[Vecna]

Just because two people had actually claimed doesnt mean there werent a few more advocating for it.

I felt myself get annoyed at Xorxes and Damo. Either I was going to get angry and engage them in a toxic fight and be stubborn and reduce town's odds of getting a positive outcome of this situation where they had already jumped the gun, or just change my mind and help them execute a plan. I think I chose the better option.

Also, there is no need for you to be overly worried about my situation. Im a big boy and I can take care of myself.

[e.m.c^42]

listy mcList time, let's go

PR:
xorxes
Vecna
flash
EMC

VT:
damo
rivera

Plague is out of box I think so might as well go all in and do it well :D

[bozotheclown]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo

[bozotheclown]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo

[Vecna]

Bozo, I want you to do other stuff than involve yourself in this mass-claim process.

I want reads, and participation.

If not ill push hard for your D1 lynch. Youre not going to hide behind this massclaim and mechanics solely.

[bozotheclown]

Just because two people had actually claimed doesnt mean there werent a few more advocating for it.

I felt myself get annoyed at Xorxes and Damo. Either I was going to get angry and engage them in a toxic fight and be stubborn and reduce town's odds of getting a positive outcome of this situation where they had already jumped the gun, or just change my mind and help them execute a plan. I think I chose the better option.

Also, there is no need for you to be overly worried about my situation. Im a big boy and I can take care of myself.

HR has a point, I do not know how you went from this:

"Right now, scum is 5/20 players. We increase our odds of lynching scum by 5-8% by sacrificing nearly all PR potential we have. A very bad deal. On top of ruining another mafia game by making it boring."

to this:

"Setups like this are inherently flawed. Scum does not have daychat. They can not coordinate on how to handle this properly on day1. I see the town upside to it, but I feel it is a boring and cheesy way to solve the game."

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, I want you to do other stuff than involve yourself in this mass-claim process.

I want reads, and participation.

If not ill push hard for your D1 lynch. Youre not going to hide behind this massclaim and mechanics solely.

We will have time for that after we see all of the claims.

[Hellenic Riot]

Essentially Vecna, you've managed to manoeuvre yourself into a position where you were simultaneously the biggest opponent of a massclaim and the person who ensured one happened, and can therefore claim credit no matter how good or bad an idea it turns out to be. It's not a very good look.

[e.m.c^42]

I can't say the turn looks good but at the same time I don't see this as something scum!Vecna would do. It ain't his style much, y'know?

[Vecna]

I think it was pretty obvious I was biased against a massclaim since the signups Bozo. Trying to convince people its a shit idea and using arguments to get my way had to make place for something else since the whining wasnt going to go away and I felt I probably had already given away that I was a PR anyway.

And yes, VTs need to learn to stfu sometimes and not try to make the game about them when they didnt roll the fun roles for once. Once you make people take a stance, the people that are PRs are -much more likely- to be against it. Which you bloody well know, so unless you can convince me youre town im getting you lynched.

The combination of PTs and these power roles had a lot of opportunities for fun plays this game. All of that is ruined now because people just cannot just play a setup for once the way its intended and have to be tryhard all the time.

[Vecna]

Bozo, I want you to do other stuff than involve yourself in this mass-claim process.

I want reads, and participation.

If not ill push hard for your D1 lynch. Youre not going to hide behind this massclaim and mechanics solely.

We will have time for that after we see all of the claims.

Theres plenty of material already do be doing it now, before you can safely ignore a large % of the playerlist.