M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[pyxxy]

I still haven't gotten to bo's wallpost because this deserved to be written first

@damo I owe you an explanation

I'm still pretty new to forum mafia and something that I think is really cool about it is that I've never seen when playing mafia irl is crumbing (I guess the people I played with were behind on the meta or ignorant idk)

so when I saw that I was a VT in this game, I was actually excited because I wanted to experiment with fake crumbing to draw a NK. this might have been a stupid idea but hey we were all young and dumb once. maybe uhhh fake crumbing is just practice for real crumbing later, haha? :grimace:

so I fake crumbed by posting with words that I thought were commuter or travel related, gimme a moment as I gotta go find them again

okay here they are, bolding + underline is mine

D1, wandered off

•tell me about rumi. his early game is interesting, kinda odd tho
•rhk is probably town
•darg might be town but im less sure on that
•my gimmick just made people not even engage with me at all so thats sad

(wandered off, back reading the thread now)
no keep the gimmick I like it it breaks up the posts nicely

D1, wandering back

wandering back up to the present from page 15 or wherever I was, thoughts:
[edited for space]

N1, come up + heading out

Oh you posted something here I'll come up from catching up on the thread and attend to you before heading back.

D2, back home from work

alright I'm back home from a hard day's work, time for some shitposting, aha I mean careful analysis

You'll notice that last crumb is on D2 ~24 hours or so into the day. That's because I stopped fake crumbing once I read my webdip PMs and realized that brain had given me the scan.
(bo, don't pull any stupid "wow you knew it was brain" nonsense, backup day vig just shot celaph, we know all the roles now so now we know for 100% certain that it was brain)

I'm not playing any games on webdip atm and haven't for a while, but I have had a game paused for being bugged out since September 2020. Ironically, it was paused by bo of all people XD

Side note: if that game could be canceled, please, for the love of god. I haven't had a clear top bar in literal years. I can't say the name of the game because it's an anon gunboat and so talking about it directly is probably against the rules? bo I'll dm you after the game maybe XD that will be a sour dm for one of us XD

Anyways sorry. That was supposed to be my point. I'm so used to there always being a notification rectangle thingy or w/e there that when I refreshed the thread during D2, I legit did not notice Chaqa's PM to me saying that I had been given a scan. So I fake crumbed again.

Then I noticed and read the PM and had a minor heart attack because now it's actually really bad for town if I get NK'd. So I stopped immediately. If you search me in peterbot you can see that I never use "wander" or "wandering" or "wandered" again.

---

Fast forward to D3 and The Incident. Damo responded to bozo's commuter survey with a no and claimed to be VT but these posts got me thinking damo was actually just hiding:

This is Bozo asking one of his teammates to CC commuter.

If we do get a cc we still Bozo first and if he flips town we kill RHK next and if he flips scum we kill thee cc next.

Now there won't be a scum cc.

What if damo is the mafia inventor.

He is showing zero paranoia.

He is too confident on this.

If there is a cc I will eat my hat.

because I thought that damo thought that demon was trying to die, because demon was setting up bozo to be a strong townread or townclear with the fake scan.

So when I counter claimed demon, I wrote my post purposely specific that I was countering the scan and basically avoided the commuter part.

I decided that, having gotten to share my scan information, it was okay for me to be the fake commuter again or at least leaving that option open.

I underestimated how convincing this was, clearly. I tried to clarify it once again I felt that me being believed as the commuter was a bad thing (D5 -47:46):

@pyxxy I am assuming you are commuter. Did you ever hardclaim?

Anyone?

pyxxy's not the commuter he said he was waiting for the commuter to claim before he counter claimed demon

^

maybe you're confused about the scan stuff damo

I thought I was being clear here but I guess not, I wasn't waiting for the commuter but I was being purposely clever about my response.

I'm sorry damo.

[pyxxy]

so pyx, i guess i have to ask now: why did you choose to scan demon out of anyone?

picking off stuff before the wallpost because it's a lot and tbh maybe I'll just deal with it tomorrow (it's already past 10pm my time and I've been writing for the last two hours instead of channeling my inner bo and enjoying life)

After I found out that I got a scan, I started thinking about who to scan. I think my short list was bona, bozo, bo, demon.

I do not intend to vote for any of the particularly active posters on D1, per my previous post about the N0 mechanic. Yes I realize that I am putting myself in my own arbitrary scumpool, and yes I know that nobody asked.

RHK, damo, rdrivera, and pyxxy are my arbitrary scumpool in no particular order. I cannot imagine a scenario where mafia, given N0 to plan and given only half a day to survive, don’t have at least one low poster.
[there was a broken quote here]
I'd be more inclined to vote RHK than Pyx if only because I know him personally and I'm not used to the personality presented in thread, but I also have never seen him in a forum context. (that said, I also know his work schedule (and often when he's playing things), so I'm not sure his posting is indicative).

I'd need to know more about pyx to back the idea of him, because his D1 felt similarly last time. (though other than damo being a little more assertive, I feel similarly about him, I know nothing about damo)

And... rdr is just really busy I guess. I'm going to ignore him if he promises to be around at EOD to tiebreak though.

^rumi fucked this quote, here it is in the bot:
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... d=w:313810

I think this was the first post talking about demon acting weird and different. Grain of salt since Rumi flipped scum, but I think we can all agree that demon was a dick.

Demon seemed like the best choice because at the time it seemed like it would clarify my theory around a damo+demon scum team:

I mean, and I'm probably overthinking this, Demon votes for damo immediately on D2, goes silent for 15 minutes, then says "if brain gave you something dont say shit" (my words) which is okay, fine, maybe a valid time to think about that. Maybe if he had the damo vote post prepared and only after posting did he actually read and think about brain's death.

But then he frame 1 responds to damo calling Demon town by reason that Demon is tunneling on damo? Like look at that, it's -47:36 and -47:35.

I'm talking myself into this while I write this post. But. Is this scum theater?

D1 Demon sees two votes on damo and adds himself to gain some town cred _whenever_ damo flips. Night happens. Demon clarifies "yeah I was light bussing". They create this interaction to kill any lingering momentum.

Does it feel incredibly fake and thus implausible? Yeah, to any extent. But people have already pointed out how this Demon feels different and odd.

So my gut right now tells me that this is either S+S or T+T.

I have plenty of doubt in my ability to scumread, yet to actually make a strong one ever, and so I might be complete wrong here and it's town!damo and town!Demon. But if one of them flips scum, god that SOD D2 stuff feels so fake, I would be convinced that they have to be scum together and I would push flipping the other one.

If I get a guilty on demon and then damo flips scum as well, damn, can you imagine the size of my ego?

[wolfu]

okay so - i want to apologize for yesterday, pyxxy

i clearly came out way too strong in criticizing your case against me, because i had completely misjudged your experience level and assumed you were like, overconfidently wrong as opposed to new

i likely came across as WAY too condescending which i did not mean to do and i would have tried not be as harsh. i still believe your logic for scumreading me is flawed but recognize that if you are town you were just trying your best

[wolfu]

also quick question, pyxxy: what was your intention with the posts you made night 1 asking about what the inventor should hand out?

[wolfu]

i have been burned by underestimating face to face players before but someone pulling out the level of thinking pyxxy is showing in their first game on a forum would be strong

i was rereading his old games and he seemed a lot more hesitant in here in comparison to those, and there were some posts of his that came off as plausibly informed, but nothing definitive.

idk, doesn't feel right to me right now

[pyxxy]

also quick question, pyxxy: what was your intention with the posts you made night 1 asking about what the inventor should hand out?

Sorry I had to do irl evening things and it seems like you're not gonna hammer me which is pretty cool (also it would be boring to end the game (win or lose since we're in milo) when all the spectators are asleep) so this will be my last post for tn

I saw your other posts too so I'll respond to them all here.

bo can verify this I think, webdip is the first and only place that I have played forum mafia on besides spending some time playing Town of Salem a few years ago which is Different imo

This is my 5th game (I was wrong when I said 4 games earlier probably because I don't remember much of M74 when I missed EOD D1 and got DK'd as the cop ). M75 was my best game yet and I think I've only improved in this game, mostly I feel like I've learned a lot about VCA this time around and it will pay dividends in the future.

I started with M73, then M1021, M74, M75, and now M76.
https://mafia.peterlund.se/m73/game_status.html
https://mafia.peterlund.se/m1021/game_status.html
https://mafia.peterlund.se/m74/game_status.html
https://mafia.peterlund.se/m75/game_status.html

My irl mafia history is I don't think I've played since college but in 6th grade in the first game that I ever played I lied to someone's face in a random classroom at MIT (in the situation that I would now call kilo) to win 4 reeses cups and I still have that poor guy's phone number in my contacts because I never deleted it. Olu if you ever see this...I regret nothing.

Now for your actual question.

If you really have read my other games, which, jesus, you'll see that I'm the opposite of bo; I love the mech part of the game, because I like puzzles (shoutout to ghug) and because I had no grasp of the emotional part of the game so mech was a crutch to lean on to get by (citation: snowy in M75).

You said it yourself, my reads are shit. This VCA stuff (Post #1) is probably the best thing I've ever written. Over the course of this game I've scumleaned you, damo, _and_ bo, and yet I've failed to flip any of you...presumably because my cases are shit :/

So I suggested the Inventor should give out the scan because it's what I thought the Inventor should do. I would actually tell you that it's NAI and that I would make that post regardless because I like mech too much.

I would also say that my reasoning in that post looks great in hindsight. Scum picked barbarian and day vig and we lost the doc D1. Throwing more kill power into the game might have been disastrous. Or maybe someone could have shot demon and spared us all a lot of grief :/

Saw that people started posting their supposed role picks so I stopped reading the thread to go read the setup

Some questions that came up during my reading:

##CALL GM

1) Is the google doc supposed to say "during either the day phase or the night phase", italics+underline are my theorized addition, for the Inventor's magic missile wand?

aka is it a day vig item power or nah?

2) Does the Periapt protect against even a strongman kill?

3) "Detect Magic" says vanilla vs non-vanilla. Are all scum roles considered non-vanilla? Even Druid pre-transformation?

ty in advance mr chaqa gm sir

1. Yes, my bad there.
2. No, it does not.
3. All scum roles are considered “not vanilla” except the Warlock

Wrote all this in a tab before N1 so as not to distract from more pertinent D1 conversations. Maybe I shouldn't be posting it right away but whatever. I don't mind if people ignore this for now, I'll just bump the topic later in the night.

---

Chaqa's answer for #3 makes me want to have a discussion about the Inventor handing out the scan before the gun.

Gun has a [number to be put here after D1+N1+D2 flips] / 14 (unless a town PR save or mafia shenanigans happen) of shooting scum. We can't know this number yet but it's probably between 20-40%, I think?

But if Inventor gives the scan out right away, it's the same chance of giving it to scum, which I think is less bad for the same odds of wrongly shooting a townie?

And if we get lucky and give it to town, then they can scan N2 and we potentially get info D3 which is the fastest possible.

The risk is scanning doc/joat/commuter -> townie scans doc/joat/commuter -> townie outs doc/joat/commuter. And I writing this before the D1 flip so we have to consider that flip and the resulting odds.

But if it's D3, that's also a lot of time. And maybe the other roles can protected the outed one? Anyway I think there's a discussion to be had here.

---

I wrote the above before darg claimed crumbing, writing this at the beginning of N1 before darg explains it.

Also wrote this before we fucking killed the doc lmao. But this means we should almost certainly be giving out the scan tonight. Odds of non-vanilla => scum are even better now.

I re-read my post ofc once you brought it up but I wrote everything above this before re-reading because I thought I remembered what it said well enough but uh

I got the mech wrong. I must have gotten confused between the Inventor's scan item and the sorcerer's scan ability. The Inventor was innocent/guilty but the sorc was vanilla/non-vanilla. And then I didn't re-read the rules doc until after I got the item, probably, and never realized my mistake.

In which case, maybe this post was wrong, because the math premise was wrong.

That's awkward. :grimace:

[pyxxy]

okay so - i want to apologize for yesterday, pyxxy

i clearly came out way too strong in criticizing your case against me, because i had completely misjudged your experience level and assumed you were like, overconfidently wrong as opposed to new

i likely came across as WAY too condescending which i did not mean to do and i would have tried not be as harsh. i still believe your logic for scumreading me is flawed but recognize that if you are town you were just trying your best

We're cool and again I am also sorry for how I acted at certain points. gn

[damo666]

@pyxxy

Why has scumbo never attempted to NK townpyxxy?

[damo666]

@pyxxy

Why has scumbo never attempted to NK townpyxxy?

I believe this to be unanswerable and the nail in your coffin dear pyxxy.

I appreciate Wolfu taking his time and wanting to be sure and I admire the amount of effort pyxxy is putting in in the circumstances. Wel done!

However the game is up. We just wait on Wolfu to pull the trigger.

[wolfu]

i could probably answer that - i won't though, because you shouldn't be answering questions for other people


here's a question for you, though - in a world where pyxxy is town, why is he supposed to be to figure out what the mafia was thinking when they didn't kill him? How does being able to convincingly argue that make him town?

[wolfu]

this is *hard* - i can see scenarios for anyone being scum but they all have reasons to make me doubt. the case on pyx from bo is *convincing* but i'm not sure it's *right*, if that makes sense

[bo_sox48]

Ask me things to make it make more sense then

[damo666]

i could probably answer that - i won't though, because you shouldn't be answering questions for other people


here's a question for you, though - in a world where pyxxy is town, why is he supposed to be to figure out what the mafia was thinking when they didn't kill him? How does being able to convincingly argue that make him town?

He was an obvious NK target. If he is town he must have considered why he wasn't targeted and therefore be able to answer the question.

However as I think he is scum he'll have to invent a rational reason which I believe to be nigh on impossible but you seem to be able to think of one so let's see if he does.

[wolfu]

Ask me things to make it make more sense then

it's not that i need help to make it make sense - i perfectly understand what you are arguing but i'm...not sure it adds up to the perfect plan/conspiracy etc especially given there's no daytime communication between the mafia so the claim from pyx would have likely had to have been an improvised maneuver rather than some master plan, and i have a bit of a hard time seeing an inexperienced player pulling that one out

even his reaction to being cased by you - i would kind of expect scum in that situation to just immediately push back on you but his hesitance came acriss as townie to me, more of a "i don't know who is mafia and i'm not going to rush to conclusions"

[wolfu]

your reaction to RHK’s claim was both not commuter and not a teammate as a teammate knows that his claim is fake and that the goal is for his fake claim to be revealed (case against pyxxy aside) and the commuter wouldn’t just let him kill someone.

does the last mafia being the backup mean anything to you at all? because from my point of view if they're trying to get the venge killed and have it passed on to the backup then they don't care if the backup looks bad in this scenario

[wolfu]

yeah re-reading pyx's posts from last night, i just struggle to see him as scum - both the extent of the analysis and all this stuff about fake crumbing as VT just feels like a weird townie thing rather than something scum would bring out

fk me if i'm wrong i guess but i don't think he's mafia

[pyxxy]

gm busy with work cant read or respond for another 2-3 hours

[wolfu]

i should say on the note of all the VCA stuff - in my experience it's pretty rare that the scum team collectively goes all out to save a teammate from a day 1 vote. maybe people do things differently here but usually there is at least one who tries to position themselves long term so i'm not sure things are as cut and dry as they may seem


i certainly don't like bo's Day 4 posting on a reread but i suppose the question for me is if he's the type of player who'd try so boldly to save a teammate as mafia. nightkills would seem to implicate him somewhat


damo occupies the sort of space i expect scum to take in this gamestate where he's been kind of written off because of bona and is mostly going with the flow to the point where i'm not really sure he has his own ideas. some of the interactions between him and demon still look fairly suspect to me

[wolfu]

rumi naming bona/damo/demon as scumleans is pretty cracked if that's the team, lmfao

i could see it coming from a new/inexperienced scum who doesn't realize you're not supposed to just bus your entire team


her pivot to defending damo from Riot is weird

later hedge on damo at the start of day 3 can easily be partnered though

but then there's the suggestion to hammer damo outright which seems out of left field if mafia and the later interactions with him about his read of demon...don't feel scum/scum to me

[wolfu]

eh actually i may have found something, need a moment though