MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[damo666]

I understand the ghug and Bozo voters.

Worcej voters... why?

a) Bozo's mad theory
b) Worcej will probably go sooner or later anyway due to the D1 vote

These are bad reasons to vote for Worcej. Bozo's theory is bad, and reason (b) smacks of laziness.

I don't really know who to vote for. Vecna wagon appeal?

[aarodactyl]

Bozo seemed to imply he was signalling something with his use of multiple colours. I've no idea what this might be but is it more likely as town or scum?

Would you like to tell us what you meant Bozo?

Bozo enjoys thinking to himself that he is some kind of cryptic puzzler edgelord. He likes to do weirdo random shit D1 to make it look as if he's clever.

.emag eht gnivlos otni troffe emos tup yllautca eh fi retteb eb dluow tI

As an aside, I have no idea why he thought I was close to figuring it out. I’ve spent no time looking at it. I’m not even sure if I’ve read all the colored messages because I had trouble looking at them.

[Jamiet99uk]

Ghug and bozo have felt fine so far. I don't think they're worthy of wagons.

Worcej has felt much more diplomatic than i remember as town, but i could see a town motive for it so I'd feel kind of icky killing him for it.

I understand suspicion of Vecna but if he's claiming roleblock he can survive imo. It could be a scum gambit but as long as we have PRs we can let him scum gambit.

Don't really want to vote for any of those 4 today.

Did you read what I posted about Ghug? It's on page 121. I would be grateful if you would study it and respond. Trust the facts, not just your feelings.

[Jamiet99uk]

a) Bozo's mad theory
b) Worcej will probably go sooner or later anyway due to the D1 vote

These are bad reasons to vote for Worcej. Bozo's theory is bad, and reason (b) smacks of laziness.

I don't really know who to vote for. Vecna wagon appeal?

You should vote for Ghug.

[aarodactyl]

Ghug and bozo have felt fine so far. I don't think they're worthy of wagons.

Worcej has felt much more diplomatic than i remember as town, but i could see a town motive for it so I'd feel kind of icky killing him for it.

I understand suspicion of Vecna but if he's claiming roleblock he can survive imo. It could be a scum gambit but as long as we have PRs we can let him scum gambit.

Don't really want to vote for any of those 4 today.

Did you read what I posted about Ghug? It's on page 121. I would be grateful if you would study it and respond. Trust the facts, not just your feelings.

I think there’s a decent case out there for voting ghug but I honestly think he didn’t scum slip. He got really into calling himself father ghug at the end of last game and his response to the flavor text felt like he was trolling bunny because bunny’s tactic was annoying.

[Chaqa]

Ghug and bozo have felt fine so far. I don't think they're worthy of wagons.

Worcej has felt much more diplomatic than i remember as town, but i could see a town motive for it so I'd feel kind of icky killing him for it.

I understand suspicion of Vecna but if he's claiming roleblock he can survive imo. It could be a scum gambit but as long as we have PRs we can let him scum gambit.

Don't really want to vote for any of those 4 today.

Did you read what I posted about Ghug? It's on page 121. I would be grateful if you would study it and respond. Trust the facts, not just your feelings.

I think there’s a decent case out there for voting ghug but I honestly think he didn’t scum slip. He got really into calling himself father ghug at the end of last game and his response to the flavor text felt like he was trolling bunny because bunny’s tactic was annoying.

Ghug is the kind of player who would do something like this as scum as a double-bluff troll attempt, I think. Similar to me last game claiming I had to change my kill order when I was actually scum.

[aarodactyl]

Did you read what I posted about Ghug? It's on page 121. I would be grateful if you would study it and respond. Trust the facts, not just your feelings.

I think there’s a decent case out there for voting ghug but I honestly think he didn’t scum slip. He got really into calling himself father ghug at the end of last game and his response to the flavor text felt like he was trolling bunny because bunny’s tactic was annoying.

Ghug is the kind of player who would do something like this as scum as a double-bluff troll attempt, I think. Similar to me last game claiming I had to change my kill order when I was actually scum.

I’d buy this argument more than saying he scumslipped.

[Chaqa]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

This was ghug's ironclad reasoning for voting ND that apparently never got supplanted by anything better. Reeks of lazy scum.

[Chaqa]

I think there’s a decent case out there for voting ghug but I honestly think he didn’t scum slip. He got really into calling himself father ghug at the end of last game and his response to the flavor text felt like he was trolling bunny because bunny’s tactic was annoying.

Ghug is the kind of player who would do something like this as scum as a double-bluff troll attempt, I think. Similar to me last game claiming I had to change my kill order when I was actually scum.

I’d buy this argument more than saying he scumslipped.

porque no los dos?

[aarodactyl]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

This was ghug's ironclad reasoning for voting ND that apparently never got supplanted by anything better. Reeks of lazy scum.

Yeah. I think I called that out as well in my summary post. I really didn’t like it. I still don’t really enjoy the ghug wagon though. I get the feeling that if ghug is scum it will only get more obvious as time goes on. There are other people that have had scummy games so far but have a lot of chance to overwrite it if we just tunnel on ghug all day.

[aarodactyl]

Ghug is the kind of player who would do something like this as scum as a double-bluff troll attempt, I think. Similar to me last game claiming I had to change my kill order when I was actually scum.

I’d buy this argument more than saying he scumslipped.

porque no los dos?

Maybe it’s a terminology difference but I don’t think a ploy that could be scummy is the same as a scum slip.

[aarodactyl]

I’m going to get to work now so I’ll hopefully not be posting for a while.

[Hamilton Brian]

I'm just going back through VCA from D1. What does anyone think about all the votes that were on HR then dissipated? Maybe it's nothing, especially since they were never really a lead wagon but tied. Maybe I've been staring at the screen for too long.

[aarodactyl]

Actually before I got I want to @jamie and ask them to take a look at my theory that Vecna is scum when they have time.

[Tom Bombadil]

GM NOTE:

The mafia players gunboat game that was organized in the signup thread is looking for a replacement. PM me directly if interested and I can facilitate getting you in the game.

Thanks.

[Chaqa]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

This was ghug's ironclad reasoning for voting ND that apparently never got supplanted by anything better. Reeks of lazy scum.

Yeah. I think I called that out as well in my summary post. I really didn’t like it. I still don’t really enjoy the ghug wagon though. I get the feeling that if ghug is scum it will only get more obvious as time goes on. There are other people that have had scummy games so far but have a lot of chance to overwrite it if we just tunnel on ghug all day.

Hmm. I did go back to look, and in his last two town games, ghug did only cast one or two votes on Day 1. For some reason I remember him bouncing votes like a madman, but maybe that's later game or an older meta.

I still think he is scum. And he's unlikely to ever be NK'd if there's sus on him early, so we should probably just find out now while we can afford a potential mis-DK.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm just going back through VCA from D1. What does anyone think about all the votes that were on HR then dissipated? Maybe it's nothing, especially since they were never really a lead wagon but tied. Maybe I've been staring at the screen for too long.

EMC was the first HR voter (on that wagon, that is - Brainbomb had voted HR earlier and then moved). He didn't give much of a reason.

Brainbomb went back onto HR after EMC's vote, because daykilling HR would be "a shocking moment in webdip history".

Rdrivera was third, saying "let's make this day more interesting". He had previously been voting for Donny, and up to his vote had not even mentioned HR at all.

I was the fourth HR voter and I made my reason very clear - I wanted to pressure HR to explain his vote on me since HR had naked voted me.

BunnyGo was the fifth vote on that HR wagon. He said HR was trying to justify his lack of effort and this, in itself, was scummy.

Chaqa was the sixth vote on HR. He responded to Ghug complaining that the HR wagon was "opportunistic", by voting for HR himself. Apparently either trolling Ghug or thinking that scum!Ghug was protecting scum!HR?

I moved off at this point because, as I explained,

Donny then put HR temporarily back up to 6 votes, because he "didn't like the ND wagon".

After that, in order:

Donny moved to No-Vote
EMC moved to Maniac
Chaqa moved to President Eden
Brainbomb moved to Maniac

Rdrivera and BunnyGo stayed on Hellenic Riot until the end.

Looking back, EMC, Brainbomb, and Rdrivera look rather suspicious and I'd like them to comment on why they voted HR with so little justification.
I'd also like to know what Chaqa was doing.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm just going back through VCA from D1. What does anyone think about all the votes that were on HR then dissipated? Maybe it's nothing, especially since they were never really a lead wagon but tied. Maybe I've been staring at the screen for too long.

EMC was the first HR voter (on that wagon, that is - Brainbomb had voted HR earlier and then moved). He didn't give much of a reason.

Brainbomb went back onto HR after EMC's vote, because daykilling HR would be "a shocking moment in webdip history".

Rdrivera was third, saying "let's make this day more interesting". He had previously been voting for Donny, and up to his vote had not even mentioned HR at all.

I was the fourth HR voter and I made my reason very clear - I wanted to pressure HR to explain his vote on me since HR had naked voted me.

BunnyGo was the fifth vote on that HR wagon. He said HR was trying to justify his lack of effort and this, in itself, was scummy.

Chaqa was the sixth vote on HR. He responded to Ghug complaining that the HR wagon was "opportunistic", by voting for HR himself. Apparently either trolling Ghug or thinking that scum!Ghug was protecting scum!HR?

I moved off at this point because, as I explained, "Hellenic Riot is making some effort now. I think he may be right about Rdrivera - he's had incredibly little impact so far."

Donny then put HR temporarily back up to 6 votes, because he "didn't like the ND wagon".

After that, in order:

Donny moved to No-Vote
EMC moved to Maniac
Chaqa moved to President Eden
Brainbomb moved to Maniac

Rdrivera and BunnyGo stayed on Hellenic Riot until the end.

Looking back, EMC, Brainbomb, and Rdrivera look rather suspicious and I'd like them to comment on why they voted HR with so little justification.
I'd also like to know what Chaqa was doing.

EBWOP

[Hamilton Brian]

And, as a matter of a starting point in letting you all know where I stand, there is this:
Reads as of D2. Definitely fluid and not ossified.
Tier 1 (would definitely not kill): President Eden, Jamie, myself
Tier 2 (would need a very convincing case to kill): aaro, worcej/durga, RDR
Tier 3 (ambivalent, could kill, could keep alive): bona, bozo, brain, celaph, damo, flum, emc, ghug, HR,
Tier 4 (remove them already): bunny, chaqa, donny, vecna

President Eden and Jamie: both fervent, big writing with explicit details, hammering for information. Emotion.

Aaro: questioning, exploring the conflict between others’ reads and their own feelings (see ghug). Post on page 128 is well thought-out. Really could see them up to tier 1.

Worcej: I think I was town-reading Durga; no, I definitely was. Her bailing out isn’t scum-indicative. She cut ties with our Webdip World team. However, Worcej gets the benefit of the doubt to at least get through another day or two. Sorry to hear about the Covid. That sucks. Rest up, heal up.

RDR: self-admittedly never a big “pusher” and that’s true here. I feel like RDR’s game really is to watch, draw their own conclusions, then press forward in that manner. Same is happening here. Challenging assumptions. Not a scum vibe from them and if I’m wrong, then I really have no business in this game. Jamie's suggestion in the post about HR voting has me second-guessing myself. Worth digging into.

Bona: need to dig more into the hate they are getting. Close to me in terms of post volume, so that isn’t scum indicative. Not getting depth in the posts though, so somewhat forgettable. This position might be changing.

Bozo: drives me crazy; pulled the coloured font business. Usually comes in with a big analytical reason for a decision, or to refute town’s decisions. Not seeing it thus far, but I think they’re a mid-game person. So, still waiting.

Celaph: questioning, commenting, good post on page 123. But…

Damo: feels different this game, can’t put my finger on it. Strong conviction (?) that D1 subs are scum.

Flum: nothing. Not a lot of digging from what I can read.

EMC: nothing. Daddy posts. Seems disinterested.

Ghug: Not sure what I am reading from them. Need to go back to some D2 posts that caught my eye, but right now, very null.

HR: Their D2 seems unremarkable, but I am interested in their Bona take. After some questioning, might shift HR up to 2 or down to 4.


Donny: standout is the D1 VCA moving to Maniac like they did. Getting a lot of asking for others’ reads instead of doing the work themselves. Not really putting themselves out there, which could be scum or PR play.

Chaqa: they should probably be in tier 3 but what stands out to me is naming players as scum without offering an explanation, not asking them questions. Opportunistic. Wondering why they remained on a vanity wagon. That looks suspicious.

Bunny: heavy-hitting day 1 with confrontational posts then disappearing into life. I get it. But the immediate shift in tone seems off to me; are they thinking, “I keep pushing like this I’m going to draw suspicion? Disappear then tone it down, rabbit.” We’ll see how the remainder of D2 goes.

Vecna: Bunny Go is locked in my basement. Usually strong and thoughtful play. This isn’t it.

[President Eden]

@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.

I'm not saying he did that, but I'm saying he would do that. It does kinda make me want to shoot one of them to find out...

I think I want to resolve this Hellenic Riot/rdrivera subplot today.

Hellenic Riot & rdrivera2005: How come y'all aren't whipping us to kill each other?

Because it's D2? Because HR made some decent posts today that made me feel that I might be wrong about him?
I don't think tunneling just to prove I can yell louder then him is the way to play as town.

I quite plainly did not ask you to do that. Your filter for day 2 sounds very convinced that HR is mafia up until this post of mine. I hardly think it unreasonable to expect you to push a clear mafia suspect.

What of his posts changed your mind?