Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[thamrick]

Yes. That's right. Bus her for making the same argument you made Bo. Look inside yourself. You know it to be true. Do it! Kill her!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o84sw9C ... /giphy.gif

[MeanLaQueefa]

Also I answered two different questions, (1) was lynching yav the best move in hindsight and (2) what was my logic for doing it at the time (which you asked for later, after I'd already written everything besides the last paragraph)

[bo_sox48]

The same argument I made? Hardly. I made an argument in real time. MLQ just made an argument in hindsight. People need to justify their actions as they make them, not as they interpret them after the result is already known. If there were a half a dozen people that voted yav and I'm the only one that can actually tell you why, then perhaps we should look at the people that voted for yav.

[bo_sox48]

The second paragraph of that post is the same argument that I made, but that's not what I'm taking issue with.

[thamrick]

Ah I see MLQ. So you're looking back with hindsight and you're saying, "yes. I know Yav is VT, but we should lynch him anyway." Again, lol.

[thamrick]

@Bo - so you agree that it's likely the scum were on the Yav wagon?

[MeanLaQueefa]

Well I made the vote at the time with the same logic as I'm saying now and I'm sticking by it because it makes sense to me. I was on a 10 minute break from work when I voted and didn't even have time to read everything happening at the EoD, let alone type out an entire argument for my vote.

[thamrick]

I will say that Mean did make this same argument in real time. I disagreed with it then. I disagree with it now.

[bo_sox48]

Only if you agree that you just intentionally misinterpreted what I said to fit your predetermined agenda.

No? Okay. Let's revisit.

"If there were a half a dozen people that voted yav and I'm the only one that can actually tell you why, then perhaps we should look at the people that voted for yav."

Did I make some sort of qualifying remark, wherein I only believe that voting for yavuz is scummy under certain circumstances? Crikey! I did!

[thamrick]

Not even trying to be difficult here Bo.

I still feel like that's what you were implying. Can you state what you meant a different way since you feel like I don't understand?

To me it reads as "I know why I voted Yav and explained it at the time. The other people can't explain why they voted Yav so we should investigate them"

Should investigate them to me implies that they're likely scum.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tham: "Ah I see MLQ. So you're looking back with hindsight and you're saying, "yes. I know Yav is VT, but we should lynch him anyway." Again, lol."

Where are you getting this? In hindsight, yeah, we should have lynched yav instead of ND, obviously. If you're talking about that in ultimate hindsight we should have not lynched ND, Yav or Demon, because they're all town, yeah maybe, but I can't envision a realistic scenario where that could have happened after what yav did. Yav was the right decision to lynch of the two, period, my logic at the time justifies it, if you want to continue to scum read me for that, that's crappy logic but I guess I have to deal with it.

[thamrick]

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Sounds like you won't be on much tomorrow. I promise you I'm voting one of the following 4 people, in order of preference:

Bo
MLQ
Vashta
RHK

I think that Bo, MLQ, and RHK are the remaining scum, and once the other 2 are eliminated, the real Watcher can reveal.

If you want to convince me to change my vote, convince me why one of the other 3 deserves my vote. MLQ is a close 2nd.

[DemonRHK]

@RHK - I get why you voted Yav. Knowing that Tom is clear and ND is dead, look at Yav voters and tell me what motivation they had to vote Yav when he potentially could have been Cop (no matter how small you think that chance was).

From as an unbiased view as I can give:

The chief motivation for voting the cop claim is:
A) You're scum
B) You don't believe it
C) You have evidence it's false.

I'm the only one that falls into C, ND is RIP town, and Tom is 99.999% conf town.

Mean: The weakest reasoning of her vote D3 was that the cop is useless if saved by the nurse so the watcher is more important. This is untrue, as the save rbs and the mafia will be able to rb me (As they did). She claims To believe my claim more, say that my role is more important than the cop (Iffy), and vote yavu.

bo: I feel bo provided solid reasoning on his vote. Yavu played poorly the whole game, and the 2 for 1 reasoning, while not completely correct made sense. However, this turned out to be a point that scum can easily argue, as it turned out this entire disaster was town all around.

Vash: No real vote reasoning other than the claim made zero sense. Vash being scum would mean D2 was scum v scum wagons, and the last 4 votes on Rj were 3 confirmed town and rd.

...

However...

The two votes before the 4 vote surge onto Rj were tham and Mean onto Vash. D2...might have been a potential bus that backfired? This would mean that not only did Jamie bus the shit out of Vash, but tham bussed the shit out of the witch for a while as well.

-----

Looking into D2 a bit more, before the 4 votes on Rj of rd(???), Maniac (Conf VT), Ezio (dead VT), and brain (dead VT)...

bozo, Mean, and tham. All on Vash, and all to push Rj away from the lead wagon.

[bo_sox48]

Sure, I'll rephrase:

If you ask the others why they voted for yav and they can't explain it, you should look into them, because voting for someone that could potentially be the cop and not actually knowing why or having the conviction to stand by it is scummy as fucking hell.

I don't know if the others can explain why they voted for yav because I haven't asked them to, nor have I put in any effort to go back and find out whether they gave any reasons. However, there is one person that you conveniently reminded me of not too long ago that I'm fairly confident didn't give any reasons and that's Vash. Perhaps I was not so subtly pointing you in his direction since you briefly mentioned him before.

That said, there could be others, and that's why I wanted MLQ to rehash this for me.

Have you looked into Vash? He's on your list, and yet you are paying zero attention to him. That's exactly why he plays so under-the-radar - he knows you won't give a shit about him even if you put him in a list of players you're supposed to give a shit about. Personally, I think there are facets of this game outside of Vash's control that point to him being town, but don't just take my word for it. Do your homework.

[thamrick]

My argument is this, feel free to dispute it.

Given: we get direct evidence of the truth of Yav's claim by lynching ND

No matter how much you believe RHK or how unlikely you think Yav's claim is, it is better to lynch an innocent ND and get that evidence than to possibly lynch the Cop.

Now, argue why scum wouldn't have wanted to potentially lynch the Cop.

[DemonRHK]

Even more damning is bozo going from Vash to Tom, then right back. Balki was also right in that push with them.

D2 casts a horrific picture of those 4.

##Vote bozo

[bo_sox48]

Scum totally wants to potentially lynch the cop. Why can't town? It's not all black and white.

[bo_sox48]

And I have work in 9 hours, so I should actually sleep. Fuck this game.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Easy tham, it was an easier move for scum to be on the ND wagon, cop or not, it would be the safest place to be where you weren't going to be questioned regardless of flip. Fortune favors the bold though, and I stand by my decision to vote yav and it turns out if I'd have gotten my way, we'd be sitting here one gun and one vt richer.

Your concern that lynching a potential cop being something scum would want is valid, but I'd say more scum would be on the ND wagon because it was a safer place for scum to be and they knew it was a town vs. town anyway. I'd especially be looking into balki and meme because they voted ND at the last moment, when they basically knew ND was the one getting lynched after their votes.

I bet more scum were on the ND wagon than the yav wagon. At the end of the game when we know, you can call me an idiot if I'm wrong. In any case, your idea that the entire scum team would line up nice and neatly on one wagon to lynch a claimed cop that wasn't even real is wishful thinking at its finest.

[thamrick]

You’re potentially right that not all of the scum were on Yav but I just cannot fathom a world in which scum, not knowing whether Yav’s Cop claim is legit or not, wouldn’t have voted for Yav seeing that it was a close contest.

Balki literally decided to lynch ND over Yav.

I’ll grant that little can be gleaned from Meme’s vote but his stated reason supports my line of thought.

Also granted that this presumes that RHK isn’t Watcher (which, I admit is a big presumption) and that Stalker hadn’t scanned Yav or ND at this point.