Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[EspressoPatronum]

And I thought last game opened up fast....

I gave everything a quick skim before I have to go for a bit.

@Post 197 on page 10ish - this kind of questioning by teacon is consistent with how he played town in m1007. I think Squiggs is overreacting to the EMC thing.

Not sure yet how I feel about the Flavius interactions yet. We didn't get to see him in game start in m1007 because he took over for Vapor, so I have to read them closer.

More to come later tonight after I give things a proper read-through.

[Balki Bartokomous]

The main thing is that Flav was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole.

What do you mean by "the main thing..." ? The main thing of what? The main reason to scumread him? Something else?

[Carl Tuckerson]

[quote="Carl Tuckerson" post_id=80148 time=<a href="tel:1559598965">1559598965</a> user_id=6415]
[quote=dargorygel post_id=80144 time=<a href="tel:1559598779">1559598779</a> user_id=132]
[quote="Balki Bartokomous" post_id=80134 time=<a href="tel:1559598280">1559598280</a> user_id=922]

Me.

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS
[/quote]
While that’s somewhat true, I think a mafia who is winging it trying not to get caught and borrowing a townie’s list criteria wouldn’t name seven different mafia. Typically mafia have too few scumreads not too many.
The copying bit is still a good point.

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.
[/quote]

I disagree with this, it goes both ways. There are two schools of thought as cornered scum:
1) Play nice, try to fly under the radar. This leads to lots of town reads for two reasons. One, you know people are town, so it is hard to give a justified push on people. Two, you want people to like you, so you don't push people hard.
2) Control the game. This leads to lots of scum reads. As mafia, you want to keep your options for scumreading people open so that you can vote for whoever helps out the mafia team most. If you give two options for scum, you can really only get away with voting two people, which might not be the best option. Listing 7 people lets you vote for whichever of those 7 is the most convenient to vote for.

The main thing is that Flav was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole.
[/quote]
Flavius was clearly not in control of the game, nor trying to take control of it. He was reacting to pressure. That strongly suggests that he would “play nice” as mafia. But he named so many scumreads instead. It’s not exonerating, but his post looked spur-of-the-moment under pressure, and under those circumstances I think a townie would be more likely to name seven suspects (because he honestly has suspicions of them and wants to show his work) than a mafia (who can use other means to get the heat off of him, but who would be making a mistake by tying himself down to scumreads he can’t defend).

Explain your last sentence to me please because I don’t get where you are going.

Flavius: why did you copy Squigs’s methodology? Give specifics please.

I'm not following this. What methodology exactly did Flavius copy?

Squigs started the game by reacting to each first post made by a player with an unexplained read, claiming that he saw someone on another website use this method and achieve better-than-random results. Flavius made repeated references to “Squigs’s dude” using this method, and then under pressure, gave a quick list of reads without explaining them. It read to me (and I assume dargorygel) as copying the method.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Quoting is a nightmare on an iPad folks, just respond to one thing at a time. Pro tip

[Balki Bartokomous]

Gotcha.

I don't know. Neither Squigs, nor Squigs's Dude has a patent on giving unexplained reads. But I get what you mean.

I want Flavius to come back and tell us more about his list because I do feel like that list should help us sort his alignment. It was a surprising piece of work. I just want to hear more from him about why and how he did it before we pull it apart.

[TrPrado]

So @prado - what would you like to see instead? You're comfortable instantly getting at each other's throats?

My answer to that is at the heart of my original answer. Behaving with real meaning. A very specific meaning. The joke phase serves a very specific purpose and extending it once it's passed is very much not compliant with that meaning.

We may have different ideas of how long a joke phase lasts. If I just got here, whether prado likes it or not, I'm still in a joke phase. Discuss.

Fwiw, I think there's more to it than just morale. Jokes, whether they're behaving with "real meaning" or not, have a tendency to generate information. Like someone :ahem: trying to towntell by pooh-poohing joke phases because he's so anxious to look solvey....

How do you think the game gets started without any information?

The problem, the big reason this continues to be a conversation, is you came in and acknowledged the game state and reading through posts and acknowledging them. Using green text in your opening post is one thing. Going out of your way to keep the c-word joke going when you very obviously know people have already started getting more serious is something else entirely.

[Balki Bartokomous]

The problem, the big reason this continues to be a conversation, is you came in and acknowledged the game state and reading through posts and acknowledging them. Using green text in your opening post is one thing. Going out of your way to keep the c-word joke going when you very obviously know people have already started getting more serious is something else entirely.

Hmmm, I am slightly scumreading teacon so far, but I don't like your reasoning, TrPrado.

I get the notion that town want the thread to be productive, and scum want the thread to be unproductive. But I think scum are much more likely to spend their effort on blending in rather than on hindering thread progress.

I would say that town would generally feel more at ease to extend a joke phase than scum. What do you think about that?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Gotcha.

I don't know. Neither Squigs, nor Squigs's Dude has a patent on giving unexplained reads. But I get what you mean.

I want Flavius to come back and tell us more about his list because I do feel like that list should help us sort his alignment. It was a surprising piece of work. I just want to hear more from him about why and how he did it before we pull it apart.

Completely agree.
What do you think about Squigs’s take on Flavius?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Completely agree.
What do you think about Squigs’s take on Flavius?

No specific reaction comes to mind. To which post would you like me to react?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Completely agree.
What do you think about Squigs’s take on Flavius?

No specific reaction comes to mind. To which post would you like me to react?

I don’t have a set post in mind, but Squigs’s position appears to be that Flavius is very suspicious for being defensive and “lying” about someone else’s read, but that Flavius is also unworthy of a vote right now because he is already being pressured. If you don’t have any specific reaction that’s fine.

[Durga]

Can we not have a joke phase or random vote phase this game?

Town

Town for saying town

[Squigs44]

The main thing is that Flav was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole.

What do you mean by "the main thing..." ? The main thing of what? The main reason to scumread him? Something else?

The main thing to take away from him having 7 people in a list of 11 people. I think that him reading people as individuals is slightly scummy, but I also understand that people scumread in different ways

[ChippeRock]

Okay, I've read up on everything - it's hard for me to make any reads with so little time having flown by and with less than half of the players making meaningful posts (as in, more than a couple), so as of right now, I don't have any (it doesn't help when you've only played 1 really short Mafia game). First order of business:

@CruaaderReynauld
@Carl Tuckerson
@ChippeRock

Welcome! I've not played a game with you before, so... I just have a couple questions:

• Have you played this kind of game before?
• If so, in what format (online, live, etc)?
• If so, do you you prefer to play as mafia or town?
• Are you secretly a Balki clone, because he's a lot of C-words?

Yes, a previous Mafia game, but that's it. I got eliminated early by a Vig, and the rest is history.

I don't know which one I have a preference for, all I know is I don't really like being a VT - it's so boring.

[Squigs44]

My answer to that is at the heart of my original answer. Behaving with real meaning. A very specific meaning. The joke phase serves a very specific purpose and extending it once it's passed is very much not compliant with that meaning.

We may have different ideas of how long a joke phase lasts. If I just got here, whether prado likes it or not, I'm still in a joke phase. Discuss.

Fwiw, I think there's more to it than just morale. Jokes, whether they're behaving with "real meaning" or not, have a tendency to generate information. Like someone :ahem: trying to towntell by pooh-poohing joke phases because he's so anxious to look solvey....

How do you think the game gets started without any information?

The problem, the big reason this continues to be a conversation, is you came in and acknowledged the game state and reading through posts and acknowledging them. Using green text in your opening post is one thing. Going out of your way to keep the c-word joke going when you very obviously know people have already started getting more serious is something else entirely.

You seem caught up on his two or three joke posts. Teacon has a lot of other posts and stances. Do you agree/disagree with those?

[Durga]

if mafia have a day chat then flav is scum

[ChippeRock]

Eleven Vanilla Townies should have received, word for word, the following message:

You are a spectator of the courtroom, also known as a Vanilla Townie! Each day you must vote for a suspect. You win when all the Mafia have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening.

You know who you are!

[Durga]

Very slight scum, hard to tell with the newbie though

I said that because just jailer and person in jail can read note in jail.
How they tell Balki the message?

True, but Balki is a smart player, and experienced, so I doubt he'd do something like that

who told you balki is smart and experienced?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Completely agree.
What do you think about Squigs’s take on Flavius?

No specific reaction comes to mind. To which post would you like me to react?

I don’t have a set post in mind, but Squigs’s position appears to be that Flavius is very suspicious for being defensive and “lying” about someone else’s read, but that Flavius is also unworthy of a vote right now because he is already being pressured. If you don’t have any specific reaction that’s fine.

I agree with Squigs that Flavius looks scummy. I felt like Flavius received some casual attention early and then started quivering, looking over his shoulder, and muttering "What machete? I don't have a bloody machete in my trunk? What trunk?"

I don't really care much about whether Squigs casts a vote now or later. I don't think that is alignment indicative.

Feeling positive on Squigs's play so far, but I don't feel I have any insight into his alignment -- there has not been much in the way of a readable moment.

[Nephthys]

@TrPrado it was because Squig's dude was pretty accurate on super early reads

Did he just slip?

[Nephthys]

Give us a list if your providing things cause so far I see nothing

Lists aren't actually very helpful, especially when they don't contain any explanations or context.

Strongly disagree with this.

We all agree that lists with logic are helpful though yet no one posts them...