Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

##vote sweet

Damo votes me. Susses me. Then sheep’s me twice.

This was an odd thing for BunnyGo to say when damo just voted to break the tie between sweetandcool and BunnyGo, and the only alternative was to vote for BunnyGo. However, it would make sense as mafia since damo was the only other wagon and BunnyGo could have been trying to cast suspicion on damo to try to save himself and sweetandcool.

[bozotheclown]

To the GR:

Weak opening by food. But so weak he’d not do it as scum.

Ah well. I hope SOMEBODY starts posting. This game is dull.

Another reason I like staying quiet and sending these thoughts to the GT, I’m aware of my ability to suck the oxygen from the room. I’d like to listen more and give others space to talk.

In reviewing the isos I certainly have too many scumleans but I also feel quite good about a number of players in reviewing them.

bozotheclown - I like bozo's cutdown of Will and ghug's "sweet is scum because one time he was" argument, and I like his questioning of Frog's thinking as well. I am leaning town on bozo.

brainbomb - My read of brain will be somewhat tainted by his scumread of me, so I will actually focus on his case against me because I'd rather not die. His initial vote for me is justified by an opener that discusses irrelevancies, even though I did also make some actual game relevant comments and it was the start of D1, which is clearly a time for joking and socializing - the game starts in evening time for me, and by the next morning I was playing properly, which is mostly how I play every time. Overall throughout this time brainbomb has a lot more to say about scum!Bunny than scum!food but maintains his vote on me. He also has a lot to say about scum!Chaqa. He really has nothing to say about why I am scum. This makes me wonder about the space where someone has a lot of thoughts about two players maybe being scum, but on the basis that another player made jokes in the first 4 hours, that person is the scummiest. He then goes on to vote Will because Will is confident but brain doesn't like his posts. So at this point the players that brain is voting for are the players he has the least to say about. Why is brain analyzing Bunny and Chaqa so much and finding reasons they might be scum but voting for Will and I instead? This does not seem to be a townie mindset. It is possible brain is trying to generate reactions but it's an inconsistent way to play. He justifies his votes to Will that Will and I are "doing random stuff" and "seem way different than I remember" and yet he doesn't ever actually explain this (other than copy-pasting links to my scum games).

BunnyGo - In re-reading it's very hard to decide where Bunny is at. Overall I think I really dislike the approach here - not the frame story about the GT, but the level of stream-of-consciousness. It's very hard for me to parse what Bunny is actually thinking. Overall it actually obfuscates the thread and his thinking, even though he intersperses the stream of thoughts with reads-lists. Bunny is basically actively detracting from the game by overstuffing it with thoughts that don't lead anywhere. Scumlean.

Chaqa - Chaqa basically fits into brainbomb's scum category of posting things irrelevant to the game. Most of Chaqa's iso discusses his meta, argues about the WebDip Mafia meta, and talks about personal life. Chaqa appears quite active but contributes very little. Scumlean.

damo666 - Would still hammer kill for this level of lurking. Given the percentages, it's really awful to have even one person doing this level of inactive play. But I mean basically this slot is null as I know damo will play this way as town. (Sigh.)

Frogsterking - We might give him the nickname Frogcrates. Frog basically only asks questions. He finally says he is certain Chaqa is scum but he hadn't explained this before he made the claim, although he then says this is because Chaqa did not want to contribute five substantive reads. He does make some substantive reads later. I mean... perhaps Frog's incessant questions will come in handy for the future. I'll give him that. It is definitely a more pro-town approach than Chaqa, say. But I'll make him null for now since his activity could easily be done by scum as well, since he largely makes only associative reads (e.g. brainbomb cannot be scum with Chaqa). But... I should probably give him the benefit of the doubt for acting in a pro-town way. Let's make him a light townlean.

ghug - I had gotten a bad vibe from ghug early as he is mostly focused on correcting formalisms, but in re-reading, I actually like how he goes about the game and find that he does draw conclusions at good times and has the right balance of questioning and concluding as well as gaps in his perspective. I think he is town.

Hamilton Brian - Posted some confusing things and a lot of nothingness. Could be scum. Could have maybe signed up for a game he doesn't really have time for. I mean it feels more scummy to me though.

heartthrob24909 - There's not much from heart but what is here does feel largely genuine. I don't sense any manipulation. Not that he can't be lurking scum. We'll make it null for now... although... it is a nullish town I guess. I wouldn't vote for Heart today.

Jamiet99uk - I am not quite certain how to read Jamie as I feel like he used to be much more argumentative, and so seeing him play much more levelly at this time reminds me of last game where he was scum. He makes some reads I guess? Null.

JustAGuyNamedWill - I very much like the way that Will is playing. Last game I really misunderstood him. Obviously there's the question as to whether the difference is that he was town last time and didn't care about weird mistakes, and now he is being much more active because he's scum. But I like the way he's countered some arguments and I think it would not be fair to assume people don't get better at playing the game, and therefore I am going to lean town on Will. I don't like his logic about sweet... but since that is largely the one thing I find wrong, and I voted for him incorrectly last time over one single thing, maybe this is indeed the place where I could go wrong about him, but this time I won't. Will Town.

sweetandcool - I'm in a very similar situation with sweet as I am with Will. Town lean.

Vecna - Not enough material here yet. I thought Vecna was anchor posting but they have since returned and made more posts, so for now, null.

To the GT:


Way too fake. Did not do anything like this at all last game D1 when was both obv town and actually town. Feels like trying to fit in too hard.

Going back to my original read ##vote food.

It sounds like your original read of foodcoats was that he was town.

[bozotheclown]

I've actually started off looking at bunny again (I am going to look at ghug, Will, brainbomb, and Food, hopefully I have the time).

I thought maybe my scumreading him and voting him based on his first post was harsh, but the more I look at him the more he looks bad.

Bunny's first post seemed insincere because he threw in an obligatory degradation of Will and sweetandcool, when we hadn't done anything yet to warrant it.

His first post of page 3 he decides to townread me, because I mentioned I'm grumpy about life. I still couldn't have possibly done something to make him frustrated with me, and he even references that he needs a better way to read me. Again, this is clearly Bunny saying things he has said in past games, but he has no reason to make those comments.

Third post of page 3 is interesting if Bunny is scum. Could he be teammates with brainbomb?

First post of page 4, maybe it's a casual post or maybe it's a way to spread some stink on me. Bunny seems to want to town me and scum me at the same time.

Last post of page 8 actually makes me mad now that I'm rereading it. Is scum Bunny trying to make us look like teammates?! I'm really not liking his interactions with me (I wasn't planning on cherrypicking his posts that refer to me, but those are the ones that keep pinging me the most).

2nd post of page 9, he agrees with brainbomb and continues to negatively comment on Food. There have been a few posts about Food that don't ping me, but it's interesting how he seems to be buddying brainbomb. Is brainbomb town or are they being obvious partners to the point that we can't think they are partners? Or is it a bus on Food? I haven't felt bad about Food but I do worry about potential pocketing. Food's been too easygoing with me, and it makes me wary.

Several posts later: Jeeze, Bunny become fixated on brainbomb. Not towning or scumming brainbomb really, just mentioning the hell out of him.

Okay, at this point I've concluded Bunny is probably scum. He is currently gunning for Food. Bus or MK?

I was planning on saving Food for last, but I think I'll look at him next. Then onto my accusers.

##vote Bunny

the only person who has voted to have not changed their vote

To the GT:

This…is silly. But somehow he doesn’t sound silly? Hungover damo is weird.

It's also inaccurate. I haven't changed my vote at all.

This was odd also, why would sweetandcool want to antagonize damo for voting for BunnyGo 2 minutes after presenting a case that looks like he was going for a mis-kill of BunnyGo?

[bozotheclown]

I like Frogsterking's case, and while I think ghug does do some of the things Frogsterking found suspicious as town, I think the most compelling argument was how ghug seemed to be trying to undermine Frogsterking.

[bozotheclown]

I dont have the interest to get angry over a game. this really isnt personal so if we can go ahead and not do this whole thing thatd be great.

I just wanna have fun and whatever ghug is-was doing is not a coordinated scum move. Thats all I can really say because I dont have a clue why hes doing whatever he is doing.

I think you are scum w bunny and will isnt off my radar either

For the record I don’t think I’ve made anything personal. I think what are you doing is bad for town. It’s just business.

I mean, you've outed yourself as town in response to our tomfoolery, so I consider it good for town.

Brain doesn't agree, but alas.

It occurred to me that this could be ghug pocketing foodcoats, which would also explain why he was quick to declare foodcoats town.

[bozotheclown]

Just got in my car in the grocery parking lot.

Can't catch up, by I see I'm being flashed.

Fuck off, Bunny and Will are obvious votes and town is sucking right now.

Can I not be D1 again? You guys like voting me all the time ):

sweetandcool was ahead 5-4 with 1.5 minutes to go at that point. Even if he had just checked in after being away, which of course we can't verify, he could have claimed cop or doctor to try to get a mis-kill and and out a PR if BunnyGo is town. However, with only a 1 vote difference, sweetandcool could have decided to try to get someone to flip votes instead.

[ghug]

Ghug, I lumped you and darg and you and foodcoats together because I was in a time crunch writing the post (I was at work.) I had plans to ask a lot more questions but whatever.

This is a shitty answer that doesn't actually get at the question at all. Why those pairings? Were the questions targeted at one person but extended to another?

I'll eagerly await your answer in two weeks after you've acknowledged the questions and needled others for insufficiently prompt answers sufficiently.

[BunnyGo]

Gotta ban someone... sigh.

I would also vote for ham, and maybe bunny.

Not bozo or brain.

the day is young....we have a whole pastiche of options in our buffet.

Do you know why you are now one of foodcoats strongest town reads?

Sorry, all my rereads and catchups got delayed by this.

I was rereading day 2 to see why food trusted me now.

I have no idea where the post on page 91 came from.

[ghug]

You are probably my #1 most likely busser, but Vecna could possibly have bussed.

I don't think I should qualify to be a busser as I didn't want to vote Sweet. I was voting to protect Bunny. You should be questioning why I would protect Bunny when Sweet was godfather.

More pointedly, if I was scum with Sweet, would it not have made sense for me to establish more of a town read on him so I would not be forced to vote him against my read on Bunny?

Basically, I think any chance I'm mafia existed with me being Bunny's teammate, but that would only work if Sweet had not been the Godfather. Since he was, it doesn't really make any sense for me to be scum.

The fuck is this post

We agree on something!

[BunnyGo]

the day is young....we have a whole pastiche of options in our buffet.

Do you know why you are now one of foodcoats strongest town reads?

Sorry, all my rereads and catchups got delayed by this.

I was rereading day 2 to see why food trusted me now.

I have no idea where the post on page 91 came from.

oh, and then I fell asleep. I'll try to go back to sleep now.

food...you're out of the towncore.

[ghug]

snip

Ok, I'm getting kind of tired of this.. I am catching more heat for being a bunny voter than any actual Bunny voter. I have stated, and nobody has disputed, that I do this every game to similar reactions. I have not tried to take credit for ending on sweet. Why are you framing it like I did it for cred?

Thinking my moving off of sweet is suspicious, I get, but the fact that you continue to ignore anything anyone in the game is saying is lazy at best and scummy at worst.

Did you get anything useful out of all of your contrived pair questions overnight?

Ghug trying to take credit for EoD vote:

Ghug, can you explain the different stances? This is you 1h before eod

But after the flip you said you shouldve followed your gut.

Did you really have a gut feeling of sweet being scum, but then you publically announce you dislike his wagon badly?

Yes, I announced the gut read of sweet and it was talked about a lot. I took my foot off the gas a little bit because nothing had corroborated that one moment and bozo pointed out that I'd only actually caught him that way once, but you can also see I still liked the wagon, just less than some others.

Ah yes you were so, so helpful in building the sweet wagon that's why it was stuck on 1 vote 20 minutes before the deadline. You were too busy pushing wagons onto slots like damo, hamiltonbrian and foodcoats, but yeah you *really* "liked" the sweet (godfather) wagon I guess.

Huh. Fooled me by voting everyone else. And saying things like:



And



And



In fact…within the last 19 hours of the day (until voting me) the only posts you directly interacted with me or mentioned me was regarding Jamie appearing to edit his post, and disagreeing with chaqa that I’d not fake a townslip. (And I guess the modkill joke)


Within the last 12 hours of the day you mostly said how much you sussed food and worried anout a couple others (but not sweet).

So yeah…I guess someone counting votes would have seen you say you liked any wagon available except chaqa and sweet. I was still putting you in the sussing sweet camp from an hour earlier in the day. I like how you used the word slimy or sliminess when we discussing sweets alignment and only when discussing sweets alignment.

Here I said I liked the sweet wagon, I just liked it less than the others:

I'm good with any of these wagons other than Chaqa. Sweet is probably my next least favorite at this point. I townread Bozo, brain, and Chaqa.

The primary motivation of my food vote was to see what would happen. The reads list pinged me a little but it was definitely not my strongest scumread at that point. The reaction, though, is really irking me.

I explained in the same post coming up on EoD that I'd overblown my initial food suspicion but it had grown with his reaction. I voiced my suspicion for you when I accused you of intentionally trying to antagonize me and solidified it in my very detailed read list:

ghug - Town, role PM
Chaqa - Town, outburst
Sweet - scum, vibes
Bunny - scum, trying to provoke me
everyone else - null, boringness

I'm willing to attribute it to your having played somewhere weird before, but asking people to force reads lists early in the game is bad.

So here in response to Bunny you double down that you sincerely "liked" the sweet wagon, implying you really supported that wagon all along, and your vote wasn't just to prevent a tie. Bunny raises similar concerns I have about your vote movements during the latter bit of D1 and your response is hilarious, you have no ability to explain your scummy wagon movements and attempts to manipulate the wagon into a TvT cross. You just quote your old reads list, an emerging theme in your ISO where you plie for credibility by appealing to consistency and how you already "explained"--explained how scummy you are--hoping we are stupid and forget about the whole interaction.

snip

Ok, I'm getting kind of tired of this.. I am catching more heat for being a bunny voter than any actual Bunny voter

Even in the original prompt you gave which caused me to write this you call yourself a non-bunny voter. But you were literally an actual bunny voter:

So you believed the vote was settled and there was not going to be a tie but also there's always the risk of a tie.

Perfectly clear, thanks.

I believed a shift to Bunny winning was exceedingly unlikely at that point. A tie was more likely, but still unlikely. There's no reason not to pile on.

Again, I do this very consistently, and the only downside is that some people seem to be confused by it, so I see no reason to change my ways or to read into my alignment from it.

You only voted sweet to "prevent a tie." You claim over and over across many posts in your ISO that you do these "tie breaking" vote movements "consistently" in your town meta. My problem is that YOU created the tie intentionally:

##VOTE Bunny

A tie I can get behind.

And you made other scummy attempts to tie and influence the wagons onto likely town slots before that:

##VOTE damo

Someone should hop on damo to tie it. I don't like the heart voters.

Your slot sucks a lot and should probably die today in order to move our solve forward. You're welcome for answering your question by the way, scum shader:

sketch

Why?

I dislike the final conclusion that I voted sweet for cred.

As an aside, I dislike the way frog handled the night, asking contrived questions to pairs of players and not responding to anything himself.

Thinking my moving off of sweet is suspicious, I get, but the fact that you continue to ignore anything anyone in the game is saying is lazy at best and scummy at worst.

Did you get anything useful out of all of your contrived pair questions overnight?

So neither foodcoats nor hamiltonbrian actually answered my questions?

The hypocrisy

Hey HamiltonBrian did you follow up yet?

Hey Frogsterking did you follow up yet?

S-C-U-M S-H-A-D-E

Lol. I was so excited to play with you and you've been such a disappointment.

[BunnyGo]

##vote Hamb

[BunnyGo]

To the GR:

Weak opening by food. But so weak he’d not do it as scum.

Ah well. I hope SOMEBODY starts posting. This game is dull.

Another reason I like staying quiet and sending these thoughts to the GT, I’m aware of my ability to suck the oxygen from the room. I’d like to listen more and give others space to talk.

<snip>

It sounds like your original read of foodcoats was that he was town.

Yeah, but it stuck in my head as scummy because it was weak (even though I thought to scummy for scum). I hadn't gone back and checked what I wrote.

[ghug]

Frog fails to even adress my claim that I'm not actually vying for cred beyond saying I am again. That's fine, we all get stuck in stupid tunnels, and as I've acknowledged the whole time, it's reasonable to suspect me for the way I pulled back on sweet.

The thing that gets me, beyond bring annoyed at the rhetoric, is how lazy it is. A good chunk of the quotes come from posts where I was directly responding to him asking for answers. Combine that with the slow responses in and the missing things, and I'm left trying to figure out whether he can't be fucked to read the thread because of scum or because of towny overconfidence.

[BunnyGo]

Frog fails to even adress my claim that I'm not actually vying for cred beyond saying I am again. That's fine, we all get stuck in stupid tunnels, and as I've acknowledged the whole time, it's reasonable to suspect me for the way I pulled back on sweet.

The thing that gets me, beyond bring annoyed at the rhetoric, is how lazy it is. A good chunk of the quotes come from posts where I was directly responding to him asking for answers. Combine that with the slow responses in and the missing things, and I'm left trying to figure out whether he can't be fucked to read the thread because of scum or because of towny overconfidence.

how's it different from last game?

[ghug]

I'm also perturbed by the total lack of analysis on the start of the day from Frog. I get the sense that he's read about 10% of the goings on some sweet died and is trying to seem invested by throwing everything at me.

[ghug]

Frog fails to even adress my claim that I'm not actually vying for cred beyond saying I am again. That's fine, we all get stuck in stupid tunnels, and as I've acknowledged the whole time, it's reasonable to suspect me for the way I pulled back on sweet.

The thing that gets me, beyond bring annoyed at the rhetoric, is how lazy it is. A good chunk of the quotes come from posts where I was directly responding to him asking for answers. Combine that with the slow responses in and the missing things, and I'm left trying to figure out whether he can't be fucked to read the thread because of scum or because of towny overconfidence.

how's it different from last game?

The thing is I did not read last game close enough to know. I liked the posts I saw, and maybe the main difference is that I knew he was right before and I know he's wrong now, but he just seems noticably lazier.

[bozotheclown]

Frog fails to even adress my claim that I'm not actually vying for cred beyond saying I am again. That's fine, we all get stuck in stupid tunnels, and as I've acknowledged the whole time, it's reasonable to suspect me for the way I pulled back on sweet.

The thing that gets me, beyond bring annoyed at the rhetoric, is how lazy it is. A good chunk of the quotes come from posts where I was directly responding to him asking for answers. Combine that with the slow responses in and the missing things, and I'm left trying to figure out whether he can't be fucked to read the thread because of scum or because of towny overconfidence.

It doesn't matter if you are claiming credit or not, the vote speaks for itself from Frogsterking's point of view. I don't think the fact that you do that as town matters to him, and I am not sure it should. If you are mafia, I would assume you voted for sweetandcool at EOD because it is what you would do as town.

As for your opinion of how Frogsterking is playing, I don't see what you are talking about, and what looks like undermining him comes across as possibly scum motivated.

[bozotheclown]

##vote Hamb

I am fairly confident Hamilton is town.

[BunnyGo]

##vote Hamb

I am fairly confident Hamilton is town.

sigh...

why? What'd you think of his complete retcon of why he voted me vs sweet?