MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[teacon7]

Lol, now it looks as if I'm an idiot awkwardly fufilling some sort of post "!'s" requirement

...or having to say "lol" a lot. idk if we'll be able to figure out the press requirement for a while yet.

[Temasek22]

Oh, and the bot maker peter himself too! What a time to be a newbie!

[Temasek22]

... for all we know they're new or out-of-date, and clueless towards good recruits ;p

Who, as far as you know, fits into those categories?

teac(you), peter, gold, pirstition

to a somewhat lesser extent flav, tem

Huh, why flav and tem?

[xorxes]

@xorxes are you personally advocating for a massclaim?

Still thinking about it, but I probably will, yes. I'll sleep on it and then decide.

[teacon7]

Greetings everyone, glad to be back in this madness. The flavor of this bout is pretty cool. Never did watch the show, sadly, so some of this is lost on me. I am a big history buff on the space race and such, so I'm surprised I never watched it. Must've just split my time between to many others back in the day.

I'm also happy to see peterlund's site has gotten so much more detailed! Wow, I remember making my own vote trackers back in previous rounds and they were such a pain. I guess there's no need for that now?


Also,
##VOTE DARG
Let the man go see his grandkids.

Does anyone else think this sounds like an awkward opening from gold?
@gold? how you doing?

[teacon7]

No need for all that naughty language!! And also policy votes are pretty weak because it like mechanic hounds gives scum to cover their motivations. Thanks for acting all gruff and talking about all your policy vote intentions though but please for the children let's tone back the profanity.

@ND are you working in childcare now? Why take issue with his language?

[Chaqa]

BTW I really don't like Chaqa's take on Xorxes' call for a massclaim.

He's like "Hey I think massclaiming is a good idea BUT ehh it's against the spirit of the game BUT I agree with Xorxes' analysis BUT I bet it'll never work".

So super, super hedgy.

What I mean is - I think it would be very successful at solving this game for us, but I find it really not within the spirit of the game. He's not wrong in his analysis, but I don't know if I'm really interested in figuring things out that way compared to normal methods.

[Chaqa]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

Fair enough, but didn't Kit said the setup is quite anti-massclaim?

She did, but I don't really see how so. In fact, with all the protecting roles and the Mayor (+2 vote role) I find it actually pretty pro-massclaim.

[Chaqa]

Oho. In which case one has to wonder, am I reaver prime?

Who would you recruit if you were?

I like this line of thoughts.

If I was RP, I would recruit damo.

Scum-role mechanic smokescreen stuff doesn't make any sense and is not indicative of anything. Wasteful line of reasoning.

[teacon7]

I am flabbergasted! I would never be toxic and vile! The mere thought of that offends my delicate feelings.

oh god. what if the press rules are "being offended" ?

[teacon7]

A massclaim an hour into d1 is a pretty silly idea or scum motivated. One of the biggest issues last game were mechanic hounds who got away with saying alot of nothing under the cloak of saying alot. So, in my deep, ooh so deep, soul searching I've taken note of those types and personally am going to be looking at them very hard.

@ND - I didn't read the last game. Was xorx one of those mechanic-hounds?

[Chaqa]

A massclaim an hour into d1 is a pretty silly idea or scum motivated. One of the biggest issues last game were mechanic hounds who got away with saying alot of nothing under the cloak of saying alot. So, in my deep, ooh so deep, soul searching I've taken note of those types and personally am going to be looking at them very hard.

They got away with nothing largely because you ignored them. Why are you so concderned with them NOW, this game?

It's important to learn from your mistakes

Learning is very very out of character for you.

I have a thought that the Reaver posting criteria is to not swear or to be nice, and ND is having to follow it. That would be fun.

[teacon7]

Hello all!! Please have a merry game and happy new year!!!

Christmas is over. No more merriment.

False. It's the 6th day of Christmas. Let the merriment continue.

:) :) :)

[Chaqa]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I agree with this analysis but struggle with the 2nd mafia team’s recruitment. If we claim, it needs to probably be on D2 after this first recruitment to ensure the town clears are always clears.

The Reavers are indeed a bit of a detriment to the entire mass-claim idea, but wouldn't it be better to make the claims before Reaver-ing, so that we:
1. have a chance for a vigilante to kill Reaver-Prime
2. have a chance for a doc save or commute save of some sort
3. have a chance for teams 1 & 2 to hit the same target

I'd say all are unlikely, but recent games have shown how it's really a crapshoot and lots of random stuff can happen.

[Chaqa]

I'm going to Flavius this game. Pre-read thoughts:

If EMC doesn't vote within the first 24 hours, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Kalel mentions his spreadsheet, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Vecna and/or xorxes survive past day 4, lynch their asses.

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Xorxes is Reaver Prime or on Mafia team 1. EZ game.

##Vote xorxes

What do you think is xorxes posting restrictions that he has to be following right now?

I'm not sure yet, but this does give me an idea of how we can flush out the Reaver. We could come up with a series of five posts that everyone has to copy-paste, and use them to see who gives pushback to the idea because perhaps we can make posts that would break their posting rules.

Alternatively, we can look for oddities in posting compared to people's usual posting methods.

[teacon7]

I am flabbergasted! I would never be toxic and vile! The mere thought of that offends my delicate feelings.

I wonder if RP is required to be the most friendly and polite person as their posing requirements...

that would be funny, but too hard to referee.

good call @worcej. (Maybe I should have read the whole thread before posting what became an xpost?).

Nonetheless, this would be an excellent idea. They'd target the polite players so there'd be no obvious change in press style. to hell with that.

[Chaqa]

Dear Reaver; do recruit me. I really want to find out what potentially ridiculous press restrictions there are, and how to bullshit 'em

This is town EMC.

I voiced my opinion already (NAI for him), but I am curious why you are towning him for it. Do tell!

Eh, just gut feeling. EMC and I are pretty close - I haven't been wrong in a read on him in any game we've played yet.

[teacon7]

It hides the thread form the main page banner.
Since we usually break down into cussing and vulgarity, this keeps webdip more PG for all players.

Thanks Kitsune! :)

[teacon7]

It means the thread doesn't show on the site's front page. Because some people were misbehaving in some other game and the mods didn't want innocent people to see it.

How did you find the thread though?

Heh. It was hidden, but I looked very carefully.

[Chaqa]

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

Agreed. This isn't like the Assassin from my game - this 3P hunts *people*, not roles, so it has no real bearing on the massclaim, but the massclaim would in fact limit our pool of 3P down from # of players to # of VT claimaints.