M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[BunnyGo]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

That's interesting, because I thought this could actually be a townslip. Mafia would be reading this kind of a setup with a fine toothed comb, whereas I wouldn't necessarily expect a town player to be so thorough with the setup as much as I would expect them to know their own role.

Really? How else do townies do the investigation if they don't know all the details? I may be slow on the uptake, but I read it all at what pace I can process and consider all the consequences I can think of. Still emphasizing slow on the uptake...(and new)

[BionicMole]

Hello Hello, I am definitely going to throw down the noob card. The only experience I have is in M50 1.0. but I do find myself reading about massclaims again. I have read all the arguments for and against and have considered the alteration of having only the vote leader (or 5) claim their rolls. I'm still trying to iron out how I feel about it.

Do you think that scum and 3rd parties might try to influence that situation? Particularly if we have a lot of wagons, like we do right now?

Welcome, btw... What do you think so far? Beyond the silly force reveal this early?

I am having fun as I try to catch up and keep up

[FlaviusAetius]

I understand that some people have expressed that they do not like the idea of mass claiming because they think it adversely effects the quality of the game. However, in my opinion, town should not be expected to play suboptimally because some players prefer playing without a mass claim, the setup should prevent town from benefiting from a mass claim if the goal is to keep a mass claim from "ruining " the game. I believe a mass claim would still benefit town with the current setup, since the assassin winning does not prevent town from winning also.

An assassin winning makes it hard for the town to win though? Sounds like your willing to risk everything for some unexplained, hopeful out of touch goals

[Kitsune]

I understand that some people have expressed that they do not like the idea of mass claiming because they think it adversely effects the quality of the game. However, in my opinion, town should not be expected to play suboptimally because some players prefer playing without a mass claim, the setup should prevent town from benefiting from a mass claim if the goal is to keep a mass claim from "ruining " the game. I believe a mass claim would still benefit town with the current setup, since the assassin winning does not prevent town from winning also.

An assassin winning makes it hard for the town to win though? Sounds like your willing to risk everything for some unexplained, hopeful out of touch goals

Per GM clarification (and my subsequent careful role read):

An assassin who completes their goals (killing 3 targets) may win, is no longer in town to be targeted and is considered to be alive. Assassin is considered a hostile role to town, which makes town winning condition impossible to achieve.

Checking the town winning condition I happen to have close at hand, it is:

You win once the Memefia and any hostile third-parties have been eliminated.

So yes. Assassin winning makes it very hard for town.

[FlaviusAetius]

BTW guys im super salty right now Im watching game 6 of the world series and the umpires are nuance trolling the nationals right now >:(

[BionicMole]

Hello Hello, I am definitely going to throw down the noob card. The only experience I have is in M50 1.0. but I do find myself reading about massclaims again. I have read all the arguments for and against and have considered the alteration of having only the vote leader (or 5) claim their rolls. I'm still trying to iron out how I feel about it.

Have you considered the part where the assassin wins by doing a mass claim?

Well this turns me off to the whole idea.

[FlaviusAetius]

Anyone who wants a mass claim at this point makes me question their intentions, Chaqa even said adjustments were made to the game to prevent the massclaim from even being that effective, not that it was even that effective in the beginning. Stop trying to play fancy and break the game its not going to work, and your going to kill us all in the process

[FlaviusAetius]

The ONLY thing we have is an Omniscient on our side to support the idea of a massclaim, and its not even certain if we DO have an Omniscient, theres no gurantee, lets not gamble for literally no reason

[Kitsune]

Anyone who wants a mass claim at this point makes me question their intentions, Chaqa even said adjustments were made to the game to prevent the massclaim from even being that effective, not that it was even that effective in the beginning. Stop trying to play fancy and break the game its not going to work, and your going to kill us all in the process

Guys (not specifically Flavius).

No one is actually arguing for mass claim at this point, due to its very very visible flaws. I'm not against it on its own merits but it's clearly a bad play at this stage of the game.

Stop trying to impress us all by how well you defy the non-existent opposition.

[bo_sox48]

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

That's interesting, because I thought this could actually be a townslip. Mafia would be reading this kind of a setup with a fine toothed comb, whereas I wouldn't necessarily expect a town player to be so thorough with the setup as much as I would expect them to know their own role.

Really? How else do townies do the investigation if they don't know all the details? I may be slow on the uptake, but I read it all at what pace I can process and consider all the consequences I can think of. Still emphasizing slow on the uptake...(and new)

In a generic scenario (which this game isn't), knowing all the details isn't that important. Carrying that assumption, thoroughly reading and understanding the details of this setup wouldn't be nearly as important as knowing your role and planning around what your role allows you to do. One can still play mafia normally carrying this assumption. They'd just be wrong about things that make this setup unique, such as the mechanics of the third party.

[FlaviusAetius]

Anyone who wants a mass claim at this point makes me question their intentions, Chaqa even said adjustments were made to the game to prevent the massclaim from even being that effective, not that it was even that effective in the beginning. Stop trying to play fancy and break the game its not going to work, and your going to kill us all in the process

Guys (not specifically Flavius).

No one is actually arguing for mass claim at this point, due to its very very visible flaws. I'm not against it on its own merits but it's clearly a bad play at this stage of the game.

Stop trying to impress us all by how well you defy the non-existent opposition.

Im behind lol?? I literally thought there were still people fighting for it

[Kitsune]

Nope. Been reading this discussion. It’s going nowhere. And saying nothing. And I know it’s day 1.

This discussion isn't the only thing that has been saying nothing. Just realised we hadn't heard a lot from my dear friend the Professor which was odd remembering your long investigations and hunts from last time around.

What gives?

It feels like everything you've been saying can be boiled down to: "eehhhh I don't like it but I can't really argue against it"?

Are you preparing for later ISOs so you can claim you were against or for whichever plan goes ahead?

294 words (at time of writing)? Where is the crusader who basically talked everyone into submission? Why are you trying to keep a low profile?

It's a crazy setup yes, but with no powers yet in play it's not that different... is it?

Really? How else do townies do the investigation if they don't know all the details? I may be slow on the uptake, but I read it all at what pace I can process and consider all the consequences I can think of. Still emphasizing slow on the uptake...(and new)

Well sure, except we both know how much we talked about these roles before the game started. You know exactly what they are and how they work (although we both missed the interaction with the hostile 3P win conditions... or I did at least).

You gave me a couple of potential role concerns to take back to the GMs for review only days ago.

Where does "slow on the uptake and new" come in?

I'm not saying I'm hard scumreading you, but I'm saying this isn't the Bunny I know from last game and he was town.

##VOTE BunnyGo

[BunnyGo]

Yeah...stared new job yesterday. Exhausted, and trying to catch up. Don't entirely have mental energy for this; and its much easier to overfocus on this when you're unemployed and stuck in bed with injury.

[TrPrado]

Phone screen is no longer functional so now I can only access the site from my laptop. Consequences of this change to come.

[BobMcBob]

Catching up on the reading again, but...

I think bo's fixation on not having arbitrary times for claim starts is either completely stupid or something in the strategy/meta that I haven't yet picked up on. I won't be surprised if it's the latter, and if it is, someone please correct me.

However, it feels like he's trying to dismiss Kitsune's popcorn massclaim variant largely on the basis of it including arbitrary numbers. And he's not giving off the best vibes...
##Vote bo

[FlaviusAetius]

I didn't have a chance to comment yesterday, but here is my take on massclaim. It is unlikely a massclaim will happen this early. It would take full participation to be effective, right? And there are already a few who don't like it. SO I wonder if it is a safe thing to push for a scum (or i suppose 3p) who wants to appear to be proposing a pro-town thing. Knowing it won't come to it.

Nonsense. I was Vig last game, and bozo, Squigs and Kits who were the main people on board with it were all town. The most vocal opponent (Flav) was scum.

Also, it does not require full participation, just a sensible majority. People who choose not to participate basically put themselves in the lynchpool.

False I was chameleon last game and was acting a town because that was my current win condition, I believed in no mass claim during, after and during this game, and will always believe in no mass claim, it doesnt help

[BobMcBob]

Okay, I should probably stop chucking my vote around and start trying to actually solve this abomination. The only problem is my lack of strategy knowledge, meta knowledge, experience and just the sheer amount of content that's already been posted. I'll get the hang of this one day...

[FlaviusAetius]

Well that's my two posts. See yall later.

##Vote bo_sox

bro what?
Im 100% against lynching people who dont talk in the first few days, lets focus on active people thank you very much

[FlaviusAetius]

Okay, I should probably stop chucking my vote around and start trying to actually solve this abomination. The only problem is my lack of strategy knowledge, meta knowledge, experience and just the sheer amount of content that's already been posted. I'll get the hang of this one day...

oh wow, overloading of information is a thing! >.> @squigs

[FlaviusAetius]

I don't give a shit

What kind of attitude is this? Lynch bo.

oh because someone is spicy their an automatic lynch? weak argument, try again