M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[xorxes]

Kitsune is being very towny, and I'm wary of worcej and rivera, so our reads are more or less opposite...

Can I ask what's tipping you off about worcej?

I would have to do a full reread, but what I didn't like first was the way he opposed the massclaim before we knew about how the Assassin worked.

[TrPrado]

Kitsune is being very towny, and I'm wary of worcej and rivera, so our reads are more or less opposite...

Can I ask what's tipping you off about worcej?

I would have to do a full reread, but what I didn't like first was the way he opposed the massclaim before we knew about how the Assassin worked.

That seems like a really weak starting point. As far as I'm aware all 4 of us who were scum in the original were also opposed to it at the start of this one.

[FlaviusAetius]

Three major events that have happened
Arguments over Massclaiming
Arguments over Ezio saying the forbidden words
Arguments over my Lynch

Surely we can find some sort of connections here

[FlaviusAetius]

oh my bad I guess before the mass claiming, it was the argument between bosox and damo, and thus the death of bosox

[TrPrado]

Can I ask what's tipping you off about worcej?

I would have to do a full reread, but what I didn't like first was the way he opposed the massclaim before we knew about how the Assassin worked.

That seems like a really weak starting point. As far as I'm aware all 4 of us who were scum in the original were also opposed to it at the start of this one.

I forgot how bad worcej's arguments actually were, but I still don't think it was necessarily scummy.

[worcej]

If you care, upon reading this is where I am at currently:

RIP: Bo and Damo (most likely town, maybe a 3p, def not scum)
Obv!town: Flav, Vapor, Bunny, bozo
Town-lean: rdr, kitsune, ezio, darg, Squigs
Neutral: Bionic, Temasek, Bob, Kalel, Ike
Suspect, aka -face: xorxes, Vecna, Jaime, TrPrado

What don't you like about Prado? And what do you like about bunny?

Prado feels off - he isn't as pushy/tunnely that I've come to expect from him as town. It's suspect to me.

Bunny is authentic and sporadic and is engaging heavily. If it was fake, I think he would've cracked by now.

[worcej]

Im operating on the assumption bosox died by the Traitor, I refuse to believe vig and JOAT would kill that quickly

I honestly doubt this. Traitor would know to holster the kill until it can be valuable and would rather not chance hitting his teammates.

D1 Vig/Joat makes sense, even veterans would do it.

[Kitsune]

to elaborate to drive the point home: As scum you damn well know what youre doing wrong to get all the scrutiny. Because youre a scummy fucker. You dont go openly semi-whine mode "what do I keep doing wrong". That just comes off as genuine sadness about you being wronged.

I'm conflicted now. I think Vecna is exactly right about this, and I was townreading Tem before. But I'm trusting Kit.

@Kit: is your certainty about Tem based entirely on your reads, or is there something more?

@xorxes: Entirely based on my reads. I have no secret information that indicates Tem is guilty.

It's possible that I'm wrong if tc-Flav is adamant about it, but I'm convinced enough of his scumminess that I'm prepared to bet my M50-life on it.

[worcej]

I would have to do a full reread, but what I didn't like first was the way he opposed the massclaim before we knew about how the Assassin worked.

That seems like a really weak starting point. As far as I'm aware all 4 of us who were scum in the original were also opposed to it at the start of this one.

I forgot how bad worcej's arguments actually were, but I still don't think it was necessarily scummy.

I think I explained it pretty clearly, but here you go regardless:

I think it's shit for people to try to game the setup and force claims to win games early. It isn't fun to play Mafia when that happens. I play Mafia to have fun.

[worcej]

My opinion on mass-claims is meta and NAI - I feel the same regardless of my alignment.

[Squigs44]

Im drowning in homework but I found time to skim/catch up. I dont know if I've ever seen Xorxes sheep like he sheeped Kitsune, which I actually think makes Xorxes town (if I'm reading the whole situation correctly).

##vote Temasek

Vecna I dont agree with your townread of him in the slightest. Neph had a similar breakdown as his first game as mafia, I think its NAI. If you take into account that during the Night he comfortably said he had nothing to add, his "what can I do better" frustration seems really disingenuous.

I do have a few people I want to take a closer look at - particularly Kalel and BobMcBob.

[FlaviusAetius]

If you care, upon reading this is where I am at currently:

RIP: Bo and Damo (most likely town, maybe a 3p, def not scum)
Obv!town: Flav, Vapor, Bunny, bozo
Town-lean: rdr, kitsune, ezio, darg, Squigs
Neutral: Bionic, Temasek, Bob, Kalel, Ike
Suspect, aka -face: xorxes, Vecna, Jaime, TrPrado

What don't you like about Prado? And what do you like about bunny?

Prado feels off - he isn't as pushy/tunnely that I've come to expect from him as town. It's suspect to me.

Bunny is authentic and sporadic and is engaging heavily. If it was fake, I think he would've cracked by now.

Oh no I totally agree me and bunny have had some great conversations he's 100% town

[FlaviusAetius]

Im drowning in homework but I found time to skim/catch up. I dont know if I've ever seen Xorxes sheep like he sheeped Kitsune, which I actually think makes Xorxes town (if I'm reading the whole situation correctly).

##vote Temasek

Vecna I dont agree with your townread of him in the slightest. Neph had a similar breakdown as his first game as mafia, I think its NAI. If you take into account that during the Night he comfortably said he had nothing to add, his "what can I do better" frustration seems really disingenuous.

I do have a few people I want to take a closer look at - particularly Kalel and BobMcBob.

No one is saying that, that is just going to clear him, what we are saying is maybe dont look at it so closely, and move onto other more viable candidates, Tem hasnt done enough to be considered mafia and he has some questions needing answers, I dont think we should jump on his wagon and wait for the answers on the things that never happened yet

[xorxes]

@Kit: is your certainty about Tem based entirely on your reads, or is there something more?

@xorxes: Entirely based on my reads. I have no secret information that indicates Tem is guilty.

It's possible that I'm wrong if tc-Flav is adamant about it, but I'm convinced enough of his scumminess that I'm prepared to bet my M50-life on it.

That's too bad. In that case I will go back to ##VOTE rdrivera

Betting your life is not a convincing argument. If you are town and you lose your bet, it means we would lose two townies instead of one. If we lynch Temasek and he flips town, why would you sacrifice yourself and cost town even more instead of just admitting you were wrong? So betting your life only makes sense if you have mechanical certainty that you can't be wrong.

I'm intrigued about what your info might be now, but don't give any more hints.

[Kitsune]

Okay, I have thought about it and I feel that under the circumstances it's more useful to Town for me to soft claim than to hoard my information and try to ineptly feed it out through excuses and manufactured reasoning.

Besides, that tends to read as scummy - and if I DO release this now, it should strongly townlean me and give only the Assassin (maybe) any reason to kill me early. And again only if we're very unlucky.

So: I soft claim as the Interceptor, Conspiracy Charlie.

https://imgflip.com/i/3f3c71

Would anyone like to counter-claim before I go on?

[xorxes]

That seems like a really weak starting point. As far as I'm aware all 4 of us who were scum in the original were also opposed to it at the start of this one.

I forgot how bad worcej's arguments actually were, but I still don't think it was necessarily scummy.

I think I explained it pretty clearly, but here you go regardless:

I think it's shit for people to try to game the setup and force claims to win games early. It isn't fun to play Mafia when that happens. I play Mafia to have fun.

No point about arguing about this inside the game since it's impossible to know if you really mean it or if you are just taking a convenient posture.

I think one side should not be asked to play suboptimally just because a setup is unbalanced. Unbalanced setups are not much fun, especially for the losing side, but they don't become more fun by asking people to play badly.

[xorxes]

Im drowning in homework but I found time to skim/catch up. I dont know if I've ever seen Xorxes sheep like he sheeped Kitsune, which I actually think makes Xorxes town (if I'm reading the whole situation correctly).

##vote Temasek

Vecna I dont agree with your townread of him in the slightest. Neph had a similar breakdown as his first game as mafia, I think its NAI. If you take into account that during the Night he comfortably said he had nothing to add, his "what can I do better" frustration seems really disingenuous.

I do have a few people I want to take a closer look at - particularly Kalel and BobMcBob.

Have you read Kitsune's clarification that her info is not related to Temasek? How were you reading the situation?

[Kitsune]

To help us avoid a few blind alleys, the current role list is:

Mafia
Hammerer
Hooker
Janitor
Role Thief
Traitor

3P
Chameleon
Assassin
Infector

Town
Gunsmith
Doctor (Bo, dead)
JOAT
Guaranteed Vigilante or Gladiator or Vengeful
Item Smith
Interceptor
Commuter
Tracker
Item Smith
Random
Random
Random
Random

[BunnyGo]

Okay, I have thought about it and I feel that under the circumstances it's more useful to Town for me to soft claim than to hoard my information and try to ineptly feed it out through excuses and manufactured reasoning.

Besides, that tends to read as scummy - and if I DO release this now, it should strongly townlean me and give only the Assassin (maybe) any reason to kill me early. And again only if we're very unlucky.

So: I soft claim as the Interceptor, Conspiracy Charlie.

https://imgflip.com/i/3f3c71

Would anyone like to counter-claim before I go on?

How do you know there’s no tanner and there is an infector?

[xorxes]

Okay, I have thought about it and I feel that under the circumstances it's more useful to Town for me to soft claim than to hoard my information and try to ineptly feed it out through excuses and manufactured reasoning.

Besides, that tends to read as scummy - and if I DO release this now, it should strongly townlean me and give only the Assassin (maybe) any reason to kill me early. And again only if we're very unlucky.

So: I soft claim as the Interceptor, Conspiracy Charlie.

https://imgflip.com/i/3f3c71

Would anyone like to counter-claim before I go on?

How do you know there’s no tanner and there is an infector?

Presumably she intercepted a message saying who was infected.