MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[foodcoats]

Although I'm not sold enough to vote Will at the moment, I don't disagree with that wagon. There's some things he's doing that make me feel he's very town. But there's also a lot of weirdness with some of his interactions.

I think that ghug, Vecna, and bozo are town. There's an outside chance they are very clever scum but I would never vote them today. I have a townlean for KotP and mimi, but less so than the first three. ND seems to be "mechanically town" but his play does not actually suggest he is town, since it is so sporadic.

I think that brain or RHK could be scum.

I'm a bit iffy on how Spirit plays/is playing. I wonder if he could be the third party, which is why he's spent a lot of effort talking about it and seems a bit scummy even though he is also solving. He would be my best guess for 3P.

I'm sort of null on worcej. Not fully sold he is town the way that some people are.

Demon doesn't seem to be playing very effectively. He could be a policy vote. I don't really see anything where he is scum, but that could just be that he is not playing enough for his scumminess to crop up.

##VOTE DemonRHK

[foodcoats]

Alright, a couple further post-rumination thoughts.

I actually think I would also eliminate ND today. There was a VCA thing that made me townread him, but his play suggests he is distanced from the game and seems disinterested in solving. His "Since D&W flipped scum I must re-examine the game" thing sounds disingenuous, like he is trying to appear to solve rather than actually CARING about solving.

Also, on KotP and mimi, I think I'm more worried about mimi. She has seemed to become flakier with time. I couldn't say what her opinion is. She seems a bit opportunistic and hedgy with how she moves her votes around. I could definitely see her being scum. KotP... I think I was slightly influence by Bunny scumreading him, but I just don't see it.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

End of night two:

The witch finders had been about their business during the night.

A new corpse swung gently from the gibbet... guilty or otherwise.

BunnyGo has died. He was Windy Miller, the Vanilla Townsperson.

Day has begun, YOU MAY POST!

Aw

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

bunny ;-;

Woah…

Is it just D&W-spirit with a kotp warlock?

D&W-Spirit-bozo with kotp as Warlock

idt they had any reads lists, but this was a fairly recent proposed mafia team.

I think it works very well, especially spirit

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

##VOTE just

Explain

To me, it feels like you scumread me before Dip’s flip, then after Dip’s flip, nothing changed

How did you come to will=scum?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

with this NK i'm honestly back on bozo

they were right above the null line in dw's reads, which feels like just the right amount to make bozo look good while still distancing themselves in case bozo flipped scum.

they were heavily town read by damo, so possibly they wanted to coast on a town read from a towny player by getting the kill in early

now bunny is dead, who was scum reading bozo for most of day 2

##vote bozotheclown

Yes this kill does not look good for bozo

I am still unsure as to why Bunny was killed

I dont think its 3p hunting to be honest, I think it was either to protect the top towns or to silence him for something

[foodcoats]

I just had another thought, which is that Will's saying that worcej is a townclear and getting annoyed that he (Will) isn't getting cleared for VCA does kind of point to town worcej and scum will.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

##vote will
I really wish that I had time to read everyone's posts and make a decision, but I have 8 minutes and I am somehow a wagon today

I think this vote for Just is inconclusive. If DiplomacyandWarfare had voted for anyone else there, Just would look bad when DiplomacyandWarfare flipped mafia. DiplomacyandWarfare did make some posts that made it seem like he was trying to get Just DKed over him:

##vote ghug

since he has people and bozo doesnt

unacceptable. ghug is towny.

actual reasons behind scumreading me will has stated today: 0

However, DiplomacyandWarfare didn't make a town PR claim, which might have been able to divert the DK to Just.

This is actually a good point

I think this lends more merit to that the wolves were bussing DIp for credit

[foodcoats]

with this NK i'm honestly back on bozo

they were right above the null line in dw's reads, which feels like just the right amount to make bozo look good while still distancing themselves in case bozo flipped scum.

they were heavily town read by damo, so possibly they wanted to coast on a town read from a towny player by getting the kill in early

now bunny is dead, who was scum reading bozo for most of day 2

##vote bozotheclown

Yes this kill does not look good for bozo

I am still unsure as to why Bunny was killed

I dont think its 3p hunting to be honest, I think it was either to protect the top towns or to silence him for something

Will, why do you think Bunny dying does not look good for bozo, but you are unsure why Bunny was killed? I am confused.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I just had another thought, which is that Will's saying that worcej is a townclear and getting annoyed that he (Will) isn't getting cleared for VCA does kind of point to town worcej and scum will.

No, these are entirely different things

I’m saying worcej is town because he was the flash CW to dip

I’m saying I’m town bc I pushed Dip all day and all night

Different circumstances

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

with this NK i'm honestly back on bozo

they were right above the null line in dw's reads, which feels like just the right amount to make bozo look good while still distancing themselves in case bozo flipped scum.

they were heavily town read by damo, so possibly they wanted to coast on a town read from a towny player by getting the kill in early

now bunny is dead, who was scum reading bozo for most of day 2

##vote bozotheclown

Yes this kill does not look good for bozo

I am still unsure as to why Bunny was killed

I dont think its 3p hunting to be honest, I think it was either to protect the top towns or to silence him for something

Will, why do you think Bunny dying does not look good for bozo, but you are unsure why Bunny was killed? I am confused.

Surface level it does not look good

But we can’t ever know truly what the reason for it was, hence me being unsure

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

he has yet to adress the issue of putting me in his towntier while he was throwing shade and scumreads my way all game up untill that point.

I would be entirely happy to flashwagon a lurker or something

I think this makes Vecna look good and Will look bad.

@Ghug was this D1 or D2?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I would be entirely happy to flashwagon a lurker or something

I think this makes Vecna look good and Will look bad.

Vecna would certainly have had to be very committed to bussing DiplomacyandWarfare for them to be teammates. I looked up the progression Vecna was talking about:

if only ND or D&W was there as an alternative to Worcej in the end.

At least the flash wagon had as a minor positive that worcej became sort of obvtown. No way he would be scum here and not claim PR with 4 minutes to go and his wagon picking up steam.

so kind of you to scumpair yourselves by making this claim

I’m more and more interested in Vecna’s “worcej arc.” It’s like Vecna was coaching worcej - or buddying?

Quite likely a buddying attempt. Notably, worcej has continually expressed scumreads of vecna

I was the first to be suspicious of worcej and the first to get the wagon started, and the first to question the common narrative of worcej being active always equating to him being town.

I cannot even begin to understand how any of this can even be conveived of as coaching. what a load of horsecum

breaking news: Vecna admits to bussing worcej

seems like it's time for a readlist
---TOWN---
dip
ghug
brain
---will vote to save people ABOVE this line---
miminena
Vecna
bozo
---null line---
kotp
bunny
will
worcej
---I would be happy to see anyone BELOW this line be the kill today---
spirit
Demon
ND
---SCUM---

well, if nothing else, this readlist reminded me that spirit is in the game, and spirit has been lurking and contributing almost nothing, therefore

##VOTE SPIRITOFTHERADIO

I suspect DiplomacyandWarfare would have kept track of the way he was reading his teammates enough to be more consistent. This is similar to what I pointed out about how DiplomacyandWarfare had concluded SpiritoftheRadio was probably town 9 hours before this vote.

This is actually a good point

I dont think W!bozo makes this statement about T!Spirit

I think bozo is only mafia if Spirit is mafia

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

##VOTE Just

I don't have any strong scum suspects, but Just has done some things I found suspicious. Besides what I have already pointed out, I don't understand why he would be town reading Red Neurax rather strongly D1. I looked at M1034, and it seems like Red Neurax won that game as mafia with a very similar low activity D1.

He has also been town while lurking. Lurking for him is NAI

When someone is being wagoned for something NAI, it is very likely town

What else would you like clarification on?

The highlighted statement is... not logical. In the case of a serial lurker, killing them for NAI lurking does not mean they are more likely to be town than normal. They have the same odds of being town or scum. But their behaviour is anti-town, their existence is a long range risk to town, and killing them is pro town.

No, I believe it does

Town are equally likely to kill town and scum lurkers for lurking

Mafia are more likely to kill a town lurker than a scum lurker

Therefore someone being wagoned for lurking is inherently more likely to be town

There are exceptions for bussing, but I feel it is way more likely for wolves to vote a town lurker

[foodcoats]

I just had another thought, which is that Will's saying that worcej is a townclear and getting annoyed that he (Will) isn't getting cleared for VCA does kind of point to town worcej and scum will.

No, these are entirely different things

I’m saying worcej is town because he was the flash CW to dip

I’m saying I’m town bc I pushed Dip all day and all night

Different circumstances

Alright, fair enough. Although I think town could've pushed the worcej wagon, so he is not clear; and I know for a fact that you will hard bus teammates, so you are not cleared for pushing Dip.

Your certainty is what is really worrying to me now. Getting really certain and adamant about stuff is the problem when you're scum, because you are hedged in by various ideas and allegiances that town does not have. I remember Nespresso Patronum and bozo nearly catching me in two separate games I was scum when I had fallen into those certainty cracks, and I had to fight and fight and fight not to die.

[foodcoats]

Yes this kill does not look good for bozo

I am still unsure as to why Bunny was killed

I dont think its 3p hunting to be honest, I think it was either to protect the top towns or to silence him for something

Will, why do you think Bunny dying does not look good for bozo, but you are unsure why Bunny was killed? I am confused.

Surface level it does not look good

But we can’t ever know truly what the reason for it was, hence me being unsure

Okay, but can you explain what made you think "Bunny dying does not look good for bozo?"

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I was not townreading Red because he was lurking

I was townreading Red because people *wagoned* him for lurking

I don't think this statement is scummy of Will, but I have to again point out how highly illogical this is. I would actually argue it is more likely scum would argue against killing lurkers, because lurkers help scum's late game. So if anything, one should conclude the opposite of Will's conclusion.

Kill all lurkers!

No, I would argue this isn’t true. There are benefits and downsides to killing a lurker early, or late. Generally killing lurkers early is better, since lurkers over time will have more and more content to work with to solve them

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Will, why do you think Bunny dying does not look good for bozo, but you are unsure why Bunny was killed? I am confused.

Surface level it does not look good

But we can’t ever know truly what the reason for it was, hence me being unsure

Okay, but can you explain what made you think "Bunny dying does not look good for bozo?"

Bozo was in Bunny’s solve

Why?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I just had another thought, which is that Will's saying that worcej is a townclear and getting annoyed that he (Will) isn't getting cleared for VCA does kind of point to town worcej and scum will.

No, these are entirely different things

I’m saying worcej is town because he was the flash CW to dip

I’m saying I’m town bc I pushed Dip all day and all night

Different circumstances

Alright, fair enough. Although I think town could've pushed the worcej wagon, so he is not clear; and I know for a fact that you will hard bus teammates, so you are not cleared for pushing Dip.

Your certainty is what is really worrying to me now. Getting really certain and adamant about stuff is the problem when you're scum, because you are hedged in by various ideas and allegiances that town does not have. I remember Nespresso Patronum and bozo nearly catching me in two separate games I was scum when I had fallen into those certainty cracks, and I had to fight and fight and fight not to die.

Im not certain, obv. Just highly confident

Yeah, I get ya. But I guess its just a difference in playstyle. I have seen numerous instances of it elsewhere, and thus am confident that this trend continues here

Wdym hedged in by allegiances and ideas? Like how I’m finding ppl town/scum?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Expand further as to why you arrive to this.

Wagons EOD were Red/Dip, until you popped up as a CW, and the Dip wagon died

There practically no chance you’re a wolf with Dip

This assumes that scum pushed the worcej wagon, when in fact most things are town driven and scum just shuttle along as best they can to obscure. I don't think the worcej wagon was STARTED by scum, but worcej could still be scum.

I would agree in principle, but I believe Dip was likely bussed, and Worcej goading people onto his wagon just gives scum the perfect opportunity to flip off a teammate