M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[celaph]

Rip aarodactyl

EOD was quiet and then pretty busy. Maybe we did put scum under pressure?

I assume people have talked about it, but Damo's Bona vote in the last 30 seconds is suspect. I can't really see town making that vote, but I'm not sure why scum would want to either. Just vote aaro and say no ties and make life easy.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Rip aarodactyl

EOD was quiet and then pretty busy. Maybe we did put scum under pressure?

I assume people have talked about it, but Damo's Bona vote in the last 30 seconds is suspect. I can't really see town making that vote, but I'm not sure why scum would want to either. Just vote aaro and say no ties and make life easy.

My view is Damo didn't want aaro to die because the longer he can stave off resolution of D1 the better it is for scum. If he could have gotten a tie we come into today up a creek without paddle imo.

[celaph]

although i also don't know how active a celaph/kak/??? scumchat would really be

Would love to see BB's rendition of Kak+Me+??? scum chat convo.

[celaph]

there's a scum daychat so I don't think that's it

although i also don't know how active a celaph/kak/??? scumchat would really be

It would receive one 15,000 word essay every 36 hours.

Kak: 15000 words about prophecies and flavor

Celaph: Yeah, I agree. Sorry for being quiet, I'll be more active tomorrow.

[TheFlyingBoat]

what did you get out of your tfb/bona questioning earlier btw?

I was trying to catch Boat slipping because I didn't like how fast he defended Bona after EOD D2:

RIP. Sorry aaro. Can someone tell me what was going on with the bona wagon that started?

C'mon Sabi he clearly did so to break the game of chicken and make people cast meaningful votes given how stagnant the EOD was. Do you actually think he did that hoping that the vote would end in a tie?

Here's something scum!TFB wrote in M73:

Imo in order of probability with 2 mins left, my intuition is that people in the panic a) rush to the other side of the vote that induced the tie b) flip around chaotically to prevent the tie c) rush with the person who created the tie

I think with 5 mins left there is enough time for an argument to actually kill celaph to succeed. With sub 2 mins I don't think there is.

Boat strikes me as a person that plays mafia by writing as many truths as possible, and then just strategically sneaking in partial lies as needed.

So I take him writing this last game as truthful despite him being scum. Granted Chaqa was town and so he would benefit from calling Chaqa's behavior scummy.

Thus it makes sense that TFB is fine with Bona's unvote tactic, because it was at -00:07, plenty of time to shuffle the wagons.

But what doesn't make sense to me is Boat leaping to defend Bona for drawing flak for the unvote tactic.

Not to mention that Bona almost seems to shade his voters here:

I mean honestly guys it's not like I have a surefire bet on aaro being scum so I don't mind too much if you vote elsewhere but

I'm just saying I do tend to be right reasonably often. So uh you know

i'm coming back but it's interesting that 2 votes immediately piled onto me

as if it's not obvious that people would vote for him out of annoyance?

And since TFB voted at -00:01, he knows why people voted for Bona, right?

So how come in the same minute as the death announcement post, he manages to write an entire question so quickly and then dismiss Sabi's annoyance so quickly?

It feels almost like TFB knew the plan ahead of time and was prepared to deflect any suspicion that Bona might receive for doing his on-brand unvote shenanigans.

What was wrong with questioning the bona wagoners? It was a downright stupid wagon. Jamie was on for him for hours and wasn't there at EoD so he's excused from this particular criticism, but Sabi's, Maniac's, and Damo's votes were terrible in context. In what world was that vote scummy and why is annoyance at it justified? No one has been able to give a good explanation of why it was scummy. Damo certainly should have known better than to do so.

As for timing of the post at the start of night, mine wasn't even the first post post-death, rather it was the third. Second, it was like 15 words long, hardly difficult to pen quickly. As for my response to Sabi, the two posts were 95 seconds apart, which isn't that short time wise when it's a relatively concise post (40 words) by my standards that points out thoughts that were blatantly obvious.

[DeathLlama8]

Well that was a waste of time.

Kill Kak or Sabi tomorrow, please.

was this out of frustration from how the game had gone or a genuine scumread? if the latter, how have your kak/sabi reads softened since then?

[Bonatogether]

hi pyxxy

working on anything rn? what do you make of the way the damo/bona wagons coalesced today?

I've been reading the damo questioning and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Also not sure why Damo is trying to incite Bona to make a self-preservation vote against Kak?

At some point I started wondering if blatant self-preservation "I'm town I'm town get off me get off me" is just smart scum play if done consistently from D1.
---
Also mildly interesting that Bona has spent his time arguing with Damo but not addressing my posts scumreading him.

Granted I'm not sure there's much to respond to in my posts, since it's mostly "VCA makes me think you're sus, good luck refuting this argument".

i've been largely not responding to stuff that i can't directly comment on cause i've been dealing with a fair amount of stuff OOG

[Bonatogether]

Not to mention that Bona almost seems to shade his voters here:

I mean honestly guys it's not like I have a surefire bet on aaro being scum so I don't mind too much if you vote elsewhere but

I'm just saying I do tend to be right reasonably often. So uh you know

i'm coming back but it's interesting that 2 votes immediately piled onto me

as if it's not obvious that people would vote for him out of annoyance?

And since TFB voted at -00:01, he knows why people voted for Bona, right?

is it obvious that people would vote me out of annoyance there? i don't recall that being the reason why sabi and whoever else it was voted me, and i can't remember votes from annoyance for a tie at T-0:07 ever happening before

[Bonatogether]

(what I wouldn't give for second-precise timestamps on forum posts....)

if you quote a post, it gives you the exact time

time=1648596249 is the time that this was posted, for instance

[Bonatogether]

##vote Bona then I guess. At least I tried.

##end

I'm fed up.

[Bonatogether]

##end

This might be a good strategy actually.

[celaph]

I liked the way that TFB phrased his read on Damo: Game wise he feels scum, but vibes wise he is town. He feels like a puzzle piece that I can almost get to fit into a scum role, but not quite. He is coming to conclusions based on reasoning that is really different than my own, but I'm not set on the fact that he is actually coming to it from a scummy perspective. I really want to kill him, but I'm worring about whether I made the same mistake with him that I made with aaro.

[pyxxy]

(what I wouldn't give for second-precise timestamps on forum posts....)

They have unix timestamps. It gets populated when you go to quote, but there's probably a nicer way too.

Actually I was curious about this, so I found a setting that I added a custom format to just now and now I can see seconds.

For those that also want this, click on your name to get to your forum profile, then click the Edit Profile link. Go to board preferences and change your Date Format to custom. Then put this in the box "D M d, Y g:i:s a", or change it to whatever you want and make sure you have the s for seconds.

[celaph]

In general, he comes across as really confident that he is town.

His conclusions about Snowy, Maniac, and I being town for the way we moved our votes only really make sense in a world where he is town. And so the fact that Damo is reaching those conclusions should be a strong indicator that he is town.

Self-pres voting D1 with over 2 hours left should be a sign that someone sees themselves as worth keeping around by vote and draws attention to himself in ways that feel weird for scum to want.

End voting Bona with more than 24 hours left gives me similar levels of desperation vibes from the game I subbed in and killed him. It also looks bad.

Like, I can totally see scum Damo here (all of the above are also slightly scummy), but if so, he has actively chosen to do a bunch of openly weird and attention grabbing things that come off as slightly scummy. And that's just a really weird look for scum. So I'm not loving the kill there.

[pyxxy]

I've read the responses to me from TFB and Bona and I definitely don't feel more confident in my analysis :/

[DeathLlama8]

Did some rereading and I'm getting pretty bad vibes from the bona wagon (besides pyxxy, who's been better today imo). As far as I can tell, aside from pyxxy's case on bona/tfb (which afaik is only about things tfb did, which is outside bona's control), the only thing that's been brought up since bona became a major wagon eod2 is that sabi didn't like his EOD unvote - which has (imo) been adequately explained as not scum indicative by a few other people. Other than that there's basically been no movement or changing views about him today (jamie hopped on and off once I guess) - the staticness makes me think it's more scum-driven.

I'd like to hear people on that wagon explain how their read on bona has changed over the last day or so, and still feel pretty strongly that there should be a kak/sabi/maybe still pyxxy? wagon today

[DeathLlama8]

I've read the responses to me from TFB and Bona and I definitely don't feel more confident in my analysis :/

did you have any responses to their responses?

[DeathLlama8]

also did having access to seconds on the timestamps give you anything interesting

[celaph]

[TFB complaining about not getting his way]

1. What do you conclude from this? Do you think that scum is trying to keep scum Damo alive because he is scum or were they trying to keep a TvT going?

2. This would be a really weird post to make as scum TFB. Like I don't think many scum come out to complain after getting a miskill because a towny pushed them onto the 'wrong' miskill.

[DeathLlama8]

celaph - you've stated you don't like the damo wagon; do you like the bona wagon? if you don't like either wagon, who else would you like to see daykilled today?