Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[DrCJG]

First... wow guys, that made for an exciting catch-up read. RIP Xorxes, but well played.

Second, I have said multiple times that we should reveal two days after having the box. I believe this limits the danger to the box receivers / limits the aid to scum targeting. Therefore, I think Worcej played this correctly and gets a nice townbump... though its far from a hard clear.

However... @Durga why are you trying to get info on who Worcej gave the box to before the end of night? ... the person worcej gave the box to likely won't have had time to use their item yet... isn't it better to wait until the very end of night like Worcej did to reduce their risk of being targeted... with the driver alive I don't see how this could be a good idea.

@worcej, definitely do not tell us to whom you passed the box.

Guys -- the idea that scum will get the box and then just pass it around to themselves is not a huge concern. (1) this stuff can be observed by the observer, (2) this stuff can be observed by someone later ordering "List," (3) they can get Oracle scanned and outed.

I think it's in our interest to keep the identity of the people who get powers secret.

Whoever worcej gave the box to doesn't have it anymore; I don't think it harms us to know this info. Us tracking where it is going can lead us to a lot of good info

And no guarantee the observer knows shit

Same at Vecna for trying to get information about the identity...

worcej - how confident are you that you sent it to a townie?

I expect Worcej will include a comment about the person at the end of night... no reason to be asking now.

That said... @ Worcej/Everyone - I could see value in a discussion on whether Worcej should reveal his item. My initial thought is that if he has used the item he should reveal having used it... 1) As is, the doctor/box holder doesn't know if its worth trying to protect him (though with the driver that is made more complicated); 2) It gives us more information on what items are left to be drawn; 3) The watcher may have seen him visit someone at the same time as someone else; 4) It reduces the risk of fake claims later (aka if he is scum and shoots someone but later wants to blame it on another box holder or if he is town and a later gun holder trying to pin it on him).

At the same time, not announcing either way puts extra pressure on the mafia to try and NK him.

[damo666]

DrC that was me asking w not V.

worcej had already stated in his end of night post that he had passed the box 'to someone he probably should'n have' [paraphrasing a bit]

So my question was only following that up. Not particularly harmful I think.

[Vecna]

Wait, what information about an identity was I trying to get?

[Durga]

I never asked them to tell us what item they had.

[DrCJG]

@ Vecna - my apologies, as Damo noted, I meant him (and Durga) not you.

@ Damo - I agree that Worcej already indicated some reservations, but I just don't think that is a good line of questioning.

[Durga]

But yeah end of night is fine

[DrCJG]

I never asked them to tell us what item they had.

Nope... that is something I am willing to discuss if we should do...

Instead, you stated he should reveal who he passed it to... someone who by my analysis may have received their item last night and just now be capable of using... which i think is a clearly poor decision. What advantage do you see?

[DrCJG]

Perhaps I just misunderstood... and you meant there was no harm in Worcej having revealed.

[Durga]

I never asked them to tell us what item they had.

Nope... that is something I am willing to discuss if we should do...

Instead, you stated he should reveal who he passed it to... someone who by my analysis may have received their item last night and just now be capable of using... which i think is a clearly poor decision. What advantage do you see?

So what if they haven't used their item. Scum doesn't know what item they would have. If they chose to kill the person with the unknown item, then they risk having observer see them. Roleblock is gone too

[Balki Bartokomous]

Regarding an item reveal:

I don't believe a person with an item should reveal what the item is or anything about it, unless they are disclosing a cop scan result.

That may change once we have a confirmed town player uncovered, in which case it may make sense to have the confirmed town player direct a double vote, gun shot, or role block. It also may change if we are trying to figure out the meaning of an observer report.

[damo666]

Not going to be around at EON so thought I may well post this now.

Having been lead wagon on first two days I suspect I will survive the night. However, I will not be that disappointed if I don't as at least then the foolhardy amongst the townsfolk won't have the temptation to waste their vote on me and can concentrate elsewhere.

Anyway, I think the 4 remaining scum are from the following:

RagingIke, Vecna, Yav, Squigs, flash, rdrivera & DrCJG with the last named being the least likely.

It is also possible it is 3 of the above 7 with a clever deep scum [Balki? ghug?] or perhaps a shallower one [ND ?].

I suspect it is 4/7 rather than 3/7 though and very very much doubt it is less than 3.

With my apologies to the townsfolk named in the 7.

Good night.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Mafia,

FYI, I am working on a hilarious "Zingbot" message, that will enrich all of our lives and the lives of our loved ones with good humor and poignant observations. But I will not post the message until I see the light of day. If I am killed, my unpublished literary works die with me. And that will be your burden to carry for the rest of your days. This is bigger than the game, folks.

#letbalkilive

[bo_sox48]

I won't be here at EOD. If I happen to die (doubt it, but it's possible), the best thing to do in the next day or two is weasel out the hiding scum and I expect that person will be found within the group consisting of flash-RHK-Ike-rdrivera, Ike being my preference among that bunch. The driver is probably in that group. It's possible that more than one of them are scum but the best way to start is by looking for one. My other scumreads worth talking about are yav and Balki. Not really sure who I like for the fourth remaining spot. Otherwise, flipping damo will give us a wealth of valuable information regardless of his role but especially if he is scum, so that should happen at some stage, sooner rather than later. I think he's town though.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I won't be here at EOD. If I happen to die (doubt it, but it's possible), the best thing to do in the next day or two is weasel out the hiding scum and I expect that person will be found within the group consisting of flash-RHK-Ike-rdrivera, Ike being my preference among that bunch. The driver is probably in that group. It's possible that more than one of them are scum but the best way to start is by looking for one. My other scumreads worth talking about are yav and Balki. Not really sure who I like for the fourth remaining spot. Otherwise, flipping damo will give us a wealth of valuable information regardless of his role but especially if he is scum, so that should happen at some stage, sooner rather than later. I think he's town though.

What do you think about Yavuz? He had defended the Ezio slot, one of the few things that Ezio did was suggest that Yavuz is scum because Yavuz was townreading the Ezio slot without much reason to do so, and our Cop (who has a pretty solid game-solving reputation) instructed us to lynch Yavuz next. What is your reaction to all that, and what is your read there?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Bo,

Yavuz also made a bunch of posts after the Ezio flip that seem to warrant some attention. Did you read all that? Just seems like it is the type of stuff that you might have an opinion on. I'd like to know what you think.

[bo_sox48]

What do you think about Yavuz? He had defended the Ezio slot, one of the few things that Ezio did was suggest that Yavuz is scum because Yavuz was townreading the Ezio slot without much reason to do so, and our Cop (who has a pretty solid game-solving reputation) instructed us to lynch Yavuz next. What is your reaction to all that, and what is your read there?

That is a primary component of my scumread on him, as was his absurdly overreactive and utter defensiveness after Ezio's flip. It matched how I remember him being nervous and jumpy as scum quite well.

I also found his reaction to the day 1 lynch insincere upon reread. I screenshotted the bot just to put it all in one place but it's all scattered around on page 42 if you prefer to read in context: https://puu.sh/BU3yf/089e22f757.png

Likewise, this post reads as a completely fake "gotcha" to me.

Thanks, by the way. I have 200+ posts to read during my bus travel. It will not be boring and I will see who encouraged you to lynch peter over damo. I really don't understand. What's damo, is scum purposely protect town damo to make us believe he is scum? But definitely, there was intention in not lynching damo.

He openly states that he has not read the EOD, tells us that he has no idea why people lynched peter over damo, and yet still surmises that the only possibility is that damo was protected. I don't really consider yav to be unintelligent, but I wasn't aware that he is omniscient.

The post where he blatantly lied about who I have voted for rubbed me the wrong way, and I was willing to give that a pass and call it an honest mistake until I realized that he did the same thing to Durga too. He then based a scumread on both of us, but nobody else in his list (you know, the people who have actually voted for both mislynches), on data that he simply faked. That's not something I see town doing unless they're 100% tunneling.

[bo_sox48]

@Bo,

Yavuz also made a bunch of posts after the Ezio flip that seem to warrant some attention. Did you read all that? Just seems like it is the type of stuff that you might have an opinion on. I'd like to know what you think.

Yup, that's part of what I'm getting at.

Are you simply interested in knowing what I think about yav or are you also interested in seeing yav flip in the near future?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Bo,

Yavuz also made a bunch of posts after the Ezio flip that seem to warrant some attention. Did you read all that? Just seems like it is the type of stuff that you might have an opinion on. I'd like to know what you think.

Yup, that's part of what I'm getting at.

Are you simply interested in knowing what I think about yav or are you also interested in seeing yav flip in the near future?

Both.

Actually, when I read your post the first time, I did not notice that you mentioned yavuz at all, and I thought that was odd. Upon reread, I see that you mentioned him as one of your "other scumreads," next to me, so that is less odd.

Yes, if I flip, the town should definitely lynch Yavuz next.

[bo_sox48]

Why would it have been odd that I haven't mentioned yav among my scumreads?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Why would it have been odd that I haven't mentioned yav among my scumreads?

I thought is was odd that you did not mention Yavuz at all, given his prominence in recent events. But, it was my mistake. I misread you.