M1027: Community - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

Do the people voting sweet right now really think he'd be bold enough to draw attention to his having read into the softing that got damo killed?

Why not?

It very predictably went poorly for him. I think mafia are usually hesitant to talk about the PR reads that motivated their nightkills.

I think this sequence has the possibility of ghug protecting sweetandcool
or pocketing him, but considering ghug was under some pressure D2, it would be risky for ghug to discourage a sweetandcool mis-kill just to pocket him or be "correct" about him later.

[heartthrob24909]

Instant reaction to bot before going back and reading - how much does it screw us that we got it wrong...

End of N3 will be 5v3
Then 5v2 when we get ghug
4v2 after N4

Not worst case scenario ever if I have that right but that sucks

[heartthrob24909]

Lets think about the options for a second

A) Different roles
B) Both Town
C) Both Mafia


A)
As we've seen, this result just splits the town as they guess which one to take out. If we guess correctly, we get no clear as they will be insta-NK'd. If we guess wrong, we lose two days to it, where no real discussion goes on, while mafia rack up 3 kills.

In this instance, the guess right has AN upside, but the guess wrong is bad.

B)
Mafia have no incentive to kill either of the people as it will create a clear. Therefore, we eventually have to DK one, so we had to use our own brains to read all along. The partner also creates no clear as they will die immediately.

See also, what happened to darg.

C)
Mafia CAN'T kill either of them, so to us, it looks exactly like the two town scenario. If we do eventually decide to neck one, we will get the other after as well, but its a long shot. There is little chance of this one occurring and smaller still for us to act on it.


There are sporadic upsides, but all in all, this seems unhelpful, a guiding hand to mafia, and a false lamp for the town to be following.



Now, why do I bring this up at all.

From my memory, Bozo proposed this plan and, when provided alternatives, ghug argued the benefits of the parity cop.

I think bozo should have been smart enough to notice this, and when ghug flip evil, perhaps you shoudl turn towards bozo (if you agree with my parity cop judgement).

Monarch's last posts are really giving scrambling town. I wish I hadn't missed this

[bozotheclown]

Well, the night result was pretty good, one clear and one possible miskill NKed, if Investigator keeps hidden and we catch scum today we can probably win this one.

I think both Ghug and Sweet are good wagons. Ghug because he is being Ghug but with less teeth and Sweet is just being all over the place but can't really see where he is coming from.

Bozo is a bad wagon, at least for today, if he is alive later and not Investigated we can worry about him.

I will ##vote Hamilton right now as I still think he is just floating around. His interaction with Bozo was the first time he showed up but it's NAI at most as they approach the game in opposite ways no matter alignment.

Other then Dargo, my town core includes Heart, MM and Will. Won't vote those. Probably Jamiet too.

I think I disagree that Sweet is a good wagon... will def eat my words if I'm wrong but I'm reading him more as someone who just has trouble articulating his points and has to flounder while they keep getting misinterpreted.

Sweet's antics basically guarantee that he'll be a DK at SOME point, whether bc he's actually scum or bc he ends up being a miskill, so I'd almost prefer we save that for later and focus on other people right now. Lmk if this is completely off base though... I'm open to being told to shut up about this lol

I really wish bunny was in this game, he would understand.

Have you read his notes in the godthread for other Mafia games? He frequently reads people's alignment, ignoring the fact as Mafia or spectator he would know it.

I am baffled so many people on this website think it is impossible to make alignment reads as Mafia.

It is impossible to make genuine ones because as Mafia you already know the fucking answer.

Making a "read" involves deduction. It is not possible to deduce an answer you were handed in writing at the outset of the game!

This is a valid point to make, and one I agree with, but I can't get behind it being justification for voting for Sweet right now in this game

heart was also actively discouraging the sweetandcool wagon D2, without ever saying he thought sweetandcool was town.

[heartthrob24909]

Lets think about the options for a second

A) Different roles
B) Both Town
C) Both Mafia


A)
As we've seen, this result just splits the town as they guess which one to take out. If we guess correctly, we get no clear as they will be insta-NK'd. If we guess wrong, we lose two days to it, where no real discussion goes on, while mafia rack up 3 kills.

In this instance, the guess right has AN upside, but the guess wrong is bad.

B)
Mafia have no incentive to kill either of the people as it will create a clear. Therefore, we eventually have to DK one, so we had to use our own brains to read all along. The partner also creates no clear as they will die immediately.

See also, what happened to darg.

C)
Mafia CAN'T kill either of them, so to us, it looks exactly like the two town scenario. If we do eventually decide to neck one, we will get the other after as well, but its a long shot. There is little chance of this one occurring and smaller still for us to act on it.


There are sporadic upsides, but all in all, this seems unhelpful, a guiding hand to mafia, and a false lamp for the town to be following.



Now, why do I bring this up at all.

From my memory, Bozo proposed this plan and, when provided alternatives, ghug argued the benefits of the parity cop.

I think bozo should have been smart enough to notice this, and when ghug flip evil, perhaps you shoudl turn towards bozo (if you agree with my parity cop judgement).

She brings up interesting points here. In the whole spirit of end, mid, and early games necessitating different strategies I would be on board with changing up how we use the investigator mechanic, especially now as they are potentially in more danger than before.

[heartthrob24909]

VT VOTE Ghug

Seems obvious to me:

1. We flip MadMo, therefore also learning Ghug's alignment.
2. The VTs all guess Ghug again tonight, allowing the Cop to get a 100% accurate scan with no ambiguity.

Interested to read further and see how this conversation ended up going (if it's concluded by now)

[heartthrob24909]

This should probably be conditional on which of me and Monarch ends up being scum.

If Monarch flips town we should vote you again tonight because then we will have a 100% clear scan outcome.

That is no different than the plan Monarch suggested D1. A publicly announced cop scan is good, but I think a parity check on 2 more players is better.

I think I still agree with this

[bozotheclown]

I still think Bozo is a good option and I haven't really seen any discussion on him.

Looked through Mad and I think I could definitely vote that way. My theory is that one or more people are deliberately being obtuse in order to DK me, and Mad would fit that bill.

I always am wary of ghug, but I think he's just town.

I'm null reading him, but I don't see why we should vote heart.

@Bozo, I read your post but I'm still not understanding why heart is your preference today.

----------------------------------------------------------

These are my thoughts on the wagons. Probably my last post of content. Will try to make EoD but it's always tough on Sunday.

##VOTE rd

None of y'all seem to want Macca for some reason and Hamilton is the only active wagon I really like right now.

I said I was fine with moving to Macca.

##VOTE rd

None of y'all seem to want Macca for some reason and Hamilton is the only active wagon I really like right now.

I said I was fine with moving to Macca.

Heck, I hate these wagons and I don't think Bozo is going to take off.

I guess I'll try it.

##VOTE The

The first post looks like sweetandcool was actively trying to get one town DKed (myself) while setting up a move to a second town (Monarch). The second post looks like a signal to ghug. Also, sweetandcool and ghug both using Monarch's old username is odd, it makes me think they referred to her that way in scum chat.

[heartthrob24909]

If Monarch flips town we should vote you again tonight because then we will have a 100% clear scan outcome.

That is no different than the plan Monarch suggested D1. A publicly announced cop scan is good, but I think a parity check on 2 more players is better.

I think we need to do the math. We are now 8-3. If we are right about Monarch (seems the DK today), scum kill Ghug and we will be 7-2 D4. Seems fine to use the party cop again to get another 50/50 or two town or two Mafia.

If we are wrong, scum kill another town and we will be 6-3 tomorrow and we will need to kill Ghug tomorrow. If we got another 50/50 or same alignment we can use the Investigator again to decide on who is scum or clear.

So it's seems fine to use the parity cop at least one more time.

Agree

[bozotheclown]

The bot is not displaying Monarch's D3 vote for sweetandcool in the vote count.

[heartthrob24909]

I apologize, I've mistakenly thought that I retracted my statement N1 where I hinted that I had a strong reason for scumreading Heart.

I think I got confused because I did something similar with Bozo and I guess later on I thought that I retracted my Heart comment when I had really retracted my Bozo statement.

Apologies to anyone I scolded for not reading closely enough to notice my retraction statement.

That all being said, I still have a bad feeling about Heart, but I haven't made a case yet and so consequently that opinion could change.

?

[bozotheclown]

Instant reaction to bot before going back and reading - how much does it screw us that we got it wrong...

End of N3 will be 5v3
Then 5v2 when we get ghug
4v2 after N4

Not worst case scenario ever if I have that right but that sucks

It should be 5-2 going into D5, not 4-2, so we have 1 mis-kill left.

[bozotheclown]

Instant reaction to bot before going back and reading - how much does it screw us that we got it wrong...

End of N3 will be 5v3
Then 5v2 when we get ghug
4v2 after N4

Not worst case scenario ever if I have that right but that sucks

It should be 5-2 going into D5, not 4-2, so we have 1 mis-kill left.

Also, it would have been worse case for town (no more mis-kills) if you had been correct.

[bozotheclown]

I thought that might be the case, but honestly I only remember President Eden. Did we even catch anyone else? I did not get an impression of you either way.

Looking back at this, if I was really sweetandcool's top scum suspect, I would think he would go back and look at that game instead of asking me about it.

[bozotheclown]

I'm bored

What's your assessment of Bozo?

Of Ham?

Why are you voting Mad?

I've been reading solving energy from bozo, but that D1 analysis is fluffy and atypical and it's giving me pause.

I think Ham is a good vote. If there was scum on the block D1, it was him, and his play is hard to follow and oddly aggressive.

Monarch seems to care a lot about mechanics but not at all about solving, which is a telltale sign of scum.

This exchange seems like sweetandcool was setting ghug up to push the town wagons.

[sweetandcool]

I thought that might be the case, but honestly I only remember President Eden. Did we even catch anyone else? I did not get an impression of you either way.

Looking back at this, if I was really sweetandcool's top scum suspect, I would think he would go back and look at that game instead of asking me about it.

I don't really look at past games. Happy to ask even scum suspects about past games. Can always check to see if they are lying, but not independently digging them up when I can just ask someone who would know.

[sweetandcool]

What's your assessment of Bozo?

Of Ham?

Why are you voting Mad?

I've been reading solving energy from bozo, but that D1 analysis is fluffy and atypical and it's giving me pause.

I think Ham is a good vote. If there was scum on the block D1, it was him, and his play is hard to follow and oddly aggressive.

Monarch seems to care a lot about mechanics but not at all about solving, which is a telltale sign of scum.

This exchange seems like sweetandcool was setting ghug up to push the town wagons.

I was frustrated because I made several posts, related to Ham and Bozo and it felt like they generated no discussion.

[sweetandcool]

I thought that might be the case, but honestly I only remember President Eden. Did we even catch anyone else? I did not get an impression of you either way.

Looking back at this, if I was really sweetandcool's top scum suspect, I would think he would go back and look at that game instead of asking me about it.

I don't really look at past games. Happy to ask even scum suspects about past games. Can always check to see if they are lying, but not independently digging them up when I can just ask someone who would know.

Amusingly enough, one thing from that game I strongly remember is when President Eden (Mafia) got stuck in a 1 v 1 with Bona.

Just like Mad in this game, he argued to not resolve the 1 v 1, and he Town psychopathically agrees. Some crazy Heroic efforts from Bona managed to just tie the vote and allowed us to take down President Eden.

So yeah, Mad's reaction had me 100% convinced they were Mafia.

[sweetandcool]

*The town psychopathically agreed.

[heartthrob24909]

Kak is here +1'ing so i dont like that he hasnt voted yet

I would like to point out this D1 post again, where heart was voting for the mafia wagon while trying to convince other players to vote for the town wagon.

This does look bad