MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]

[Durga]

Omg it's Foxy Knoxy

I only showed up for you.

Christmas is here early :')

[kgray]

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don’t like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

I pretty clearly acknowledged it with my actions and moved along to more productive enterprises:

why?

This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

===

Well I guess I do appreciate you trying to help me be a better player. I dunno why you want to but it’s nice of you to help me out. What happens if I don’t get better and not meet your expectations of me? Sad emoji face here.

Well, for one, you want to get better, and I think I can help.
More selfishly, I’m pretty confident we’re on the same team this game, and I think you will be generating a lot of discussion with the energy you’re bringing to the game. Making that discussion as productive as possible will make it easier to win.

In regards to contributing, I really don’t know why I used that for mafia besides to say I doubt anyone would produce a genuine answer to those questions. Maybe I used the wrong word. What do you feel like you contributed and why do you think I missed it?

By indicating it was your belief that the two mafia teams know each other, one of two things can be true:
1. You are town, and didn’t know that the mafia teams don’t know each other.
2. You are mafia, and intentionally pretended not to know this.
I think (1) is considerably higher than (2) (I called (2) a “0%” chance which is probably not right, but I think it’s very low). So I think you are very likely town, and that emerged due to our conversation. Hence, contribution.

On the other side of it, you think I was contributing by providing genuine answers, right? I guess more directly, how do these answers help you in solving the game?

I see in regards to multi mafia teams. Have you played any games with multiple mafia before?

It’s been a long time. I’m not really a fan of them, because they make it very easy for mafia to appear to hunt, and they make it harder for mafia to make informed decisions. That tampers with the “uninformed majority vs informed minority” dynamic that’s so fun in mafia. But they’re fine changes of pace.

omg it's too early for me to have to dig into these posts Eden. i gave up on reading you closely halfway through the last game i played with you.

it's very unclear to me that your actions showed anything actually. what does anything about lfischl have to do with bona? and most importantly, how tf can you be so confident right now that sabi is on your team? ridiculous

[Durga]

Oh everyone starts talking when I go to play video games okay

HI durga,

What game were you playing?

Have you caught up yet and if so what post stood out to you either in a good or bad way and why?

If you didn't catch up then uh disregard this. But it's up to you and I hope you do respond.

Fire emblem radiant dawn but I haven't caught up and won't for a bit

[Durga]

Too many long posts too early into the day

[kgray]

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

yo how do i come into this

oh shit, sniped

[BesharamSabi]

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don't like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

HI Grey,

What did you think about his glossing over that and why did you not like it? I missed it myself to be honest.

Honestly I do agree it feels awkward but that's every conversation I have with eden regardless of it being in the game or not.

I mean he's going into so much detail responding to you and he misses the thing that could be a townslip? It's objectively sus. Maybe he just doesn't want to be the one to point it out, maybe he thinks mentioning it will reveal too much info about what he knows about the setup. He's a self-admitted post editor so it could be anything.

And it's not just awkward, it's serious. Not what I'd expect from you too

OK so let me explain since you are only familiar with m70 me and a little of m1019. I think I learned that when I shit post in a game it's hard for me to get into the game and actually put an effort into it. So I came into game 1020 serious and didn't shit post which led me to enjoy the game because I was putting in effort.

So yea shit posting Sabi doesn't exist in mafia. If I take the game seriously I play better and I want to be a better player. I hated how everyone reacted to me in game 1019 and wanted to be better. So yea that's why my meta changed last game.

[Bonatogether]

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

yo how do i come into this

oh shit, sniped

gottem

[kgray]

1. I fully support the prohibition on +1s.

2. Eden and Sabi are... something. I definitely haven't played with Sabi and I'm pretty sure I haven't played with Eden, but their reputations certainly do precede them.

3. This is going to be a long shitpost phase.

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

Oh, I'm interpreting all of that as part of the shitpost phase.

Then I'm afraid Eden will be shitposting all game

[kgray]

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

Fox are you the one who believes there's no such thing as 'too scummy to be scum'?

No. I firmly believe that town should make a list of who they find scummy, and then ignore all of those people and focus on scum hunting among people who don't look scummy.

Okay, must have been someone else. Please disregard.

[Foxcastle]

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

Oh, I'm interpreting all of that as part of the shitpost phase.

Then I'm afraid Eden will be shitposting all game

I did already say that his reputation preceded him, didn't I?

[kgray]

I mean he’s going into so much detail responding to you and he misses the thing that could be a townslip? It’s objectively sus. Maybe he just doesn’t want to be the one to point it out, maybe he thinks mentioning it will reveal too much info about what he knows about the setup. He’s a self-admitted post editor so it could be anything.

And it’s not just awkward, it’s serious. Not what I’d expect from you too

“Objectively sus”

##VOTE kgray

Calling something “objectively sus” is objectively sus.

How long do you intend to speculate about my reasons when I very plainly put them out there for you?

Put them in fewer words and I'll read them more closely

[President Eden]

it’s very unclear to me that your actions showed anything actually. what does anything about lfischl have to do with bona? and most importantly, how tf can you be so confident right now that sabi is on your team? ridiculous

After drawing a very unambiguous townslip from Sabi and deciding that the chance of it being fake was low enough that it was worth just trusting it, I unvoted Sabi, and when lfischl asked why, I said that the chance of Sabi being mafia was 0%. In what world is that not a clear demonstration of a townread on Sabi?

Why would I not be confident that someone I thought townslipped was on my team?

And how is it that you want to pretend that it is suspicious that I “missed” a townslip but also suspicious that I’m sure the person who townslipped is town?

[kgray]

HI Grey,

What did you think about his glossing over that and why did you not like it? I missed it myself to be honest.

Honestly I do agree it feels awkward but that's every conversation I have with eden regardless of it being in the game or not.

I mean he's going into so much detail responding to you and he misses the thing that could be a townslip? It's objectively sus. Maybe he just doesn't want to be the one to point it out, maybe he thinks mentioning it will reveal too much info about what he knows about the setup. He's a self-admitted post editor so it could be anything.

And it's not just awkward, it's serious. Not what I'd expect from you too

OK so let me explain since you are only familiar with m70 me and a little of m1019. I think I learned that when I shit post in a game it's hard for me to get into the game and actually put an effort into it. So I came into game 1020 serious and didn't shit post which led me to enjoy the game because I was putting in effort.

So yea shit posting Sabi doesn't exist in mafia. If I take the game seriously I play better and I want to be a better player. I hated how everyone reacted to me in game 1019 and wanted to be better. So yea that's why my meta changed last game.

Yeah so most of my concern about this convo was on Eden's side. You being defensive about it and over-explaining is almost certainly NAI though

[President Eden]

Put them in fewer words and I’ll read them more closely

I put it in two words. “UNVOTE Sabi.”
When lfischl asked for clarification, I put it in 13 words. “This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.”

Don’t put your sloppy attempt to look townie on me.

[ChrisVis]

@Chris, in Discord click the gear icon on the bottom left next to the headphones, scroll down to “Activity Status” under “Activity Settings,” and toggle “Display current activity as a status message.” (The bubble should go from green to grey.) Discord’s default setting is unfortunately very intrusive.

Thanks, Eden. I'll try that. Apart from being intrusive, I find Discord to be meddlesome and prying. For example, how did Discord know I was playing AoE2? Of course, Steam would know that I was playing, but is Discord connected to Steam?

I've seen a few disingenuous posts here today, and I can't resist the temptation to post one myself. It's about Discord. Here goes ....

I'm going to ignore what you said about Discord, Eden. It's much better if I just close down Discord and be done with it!

[kgray]

it’s very unclear to me that your actions showed anything actually. what does anything about lfischl have to do with bona? and most importantly, how tf can you be so confident right now that sabi is on your team? ridiculous

After drawing a very unambiguous townslip from Sabi and deciding that the chance of it being fake was low enough that it was worth just trusting it, I unvoted Sabi, and when lfischl asked why, I said that the chance of Sabi being mafia was 0%. In what world is that not a clear demonstration of a townread on Sabi?

Why would I not be confident that someone I thought townslipped was on my team?

And how is it that you want to pretend that it is suspicious that I “missed” a townslip but also suspicious that I’m sure the person who townslipped is town?

tbh I had no idea you were voting Sabi prior to your vote change

i never thought you missed it, i thought you ignored it. and if you're scum then you'd know town!sabi is town, though that doesn't apply as much here

thank you for the brevity in this post though, it actually did help me see your point. sorry, i'm probably gonna be lazy this game so i appreciate as many tldrs as you can provide

[BesharamSabi]

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don’t like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

I pretty clearly acknowledged it with my actions and moved along to more productive enterprises:

why?

This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

===

Well I guess I do appreciate you trying to help me be a better player. I dunno why you want to but it’s nice of you to help me out. What happens if I don’t get better and not meet your expectations of me? Sad emoji face here.

Well, for one, you want to get better, and I think I can help.
More selfishly, I’m pretty confident we’re on the same team this game, and I think you will be generating a lot of discussion with the energy you’re bringing to the game. Making that discussion as productive as possible will make it easier to win.

In regards to contributing, I really don’t know why I used that for mafia besides to say I doubt anyone would produce a genuine answer to those questions. Maybe I used the wrong word. What do you feel like you contributed and why do you think I missed it?

By indicating it was your belief that the two mafia teams know each other, one of two things can be true:
1. You are town, and didn’t know that the mafia teams don’t know each other.
2. You are mafia, and intentionally pretended not to know this.
I think (1) is considerably higher than (2) (I called (2) a “0%” chance which is probably not right, but I think it’s very low). So I think you are very likely town, and that emerged due to our conversation. Hence, contribution.

On the other side of it, you think I was contributing by providing genuine answers, right? I guess more directly, how do these answers help you in solving the game?

I see in regards to multi mafia teams. Have you played any games with multiple mafia before?

It’s been a long time. I’m not really a fan of them, because they make it very easy for mafia to appear to hunt, and they make it harder for mafia to make informed decisions. That tampers with the “uninformed majority vs informed minority” dynamic that’s so fun in mafia. But they’re fine changes of pace.

OK this is a long post anyway let's go to break this down:

Why do you think we are on the same team?

I am still figuring out how this conversation helps or hurts my read on you. I guess I will figure out when I do my player analysis at the start of night when I reread people.

See here's a shorter post for those who are not a fan of reading long posts.

[brainbomb]

I'm regards to how kills are set up: So there is two night kills but town only gets one day kill? That seems a bit unfair to me. What is the lylo/kylo math on how many miskills town is allowed before we are fucked?

I mean technically town gets two if you include the day vig. But also I wouldn't look at the game like that. The mafia will likely at some point shoot a mafia member of the other team, so it's not like an ordinary game where mafia NKs are strictly bad. Hell so long as both team are alive it's possible to go into the night with two scum and a vt and for town to win if both scum point their guns at the other. That complicates lylo math a lot. And if an entire scum team is knocked out then the math just becomes the normal math I guess.

the math isnt the issue. its the connections: who saves whom at end of days; etc. the ezio scum team has no reason to save the krellin scumteam because they dont know if a krellin scumteam person is on the block to die anyway.

the only reason people would be saved at end of day is if team A is saving team A, or team B is saving team B. and this complicates very little from town point of view because were still just gonna kill scummy people anyway

[brainbomb]

also
##vote theflyingboat

[kgray]

it’s very unclear to me that your actions showed anything actually. what does anything about lfischl have to do with bona? and most importantly, how tf can you be so confident right now that sabi is on your team? ridiculous

After drawing a very unambiguous townslip from Sabi and deciding that the chance of it being fake was low enough that it was worth just trusting it, I unvoted Sabi, and when lfischl asked why, I said that the chance of Sabi being mafia was 0%. In what world is that not a clear demonstration of a townread on Sabi?

Why would I not be confident that someone I thought townslipped was on my team?

And how is it that you want to pretend that it is suspicious that I “missed” a townslip but also suspicious that I’m sure the person who townslipped is town?

okay but also why would you not explain to lfischl why you suddenly think sabi is town? if you're so certain shouldn't you share your knowledge?