MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Temasek22]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

I did not expect such a brutal post right off the bat.

[worcej]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I agree with this analysis but struggle with the 2nd mafia team’s recruitment. If we claim, it needs to probably be on D2 after this first recruitment to ensure the town clears are always clears.

[e.m.c^42]

mini town pts on jamiet for being patient enough while typing to bother censoring

I think you don’t know Town Jamie as well as you think you do...

I didn't understand that comment by emc.

Ah, in reference to this

##VOTE EMC until he casts a f*cking vote.

[worcej]

I'm going to Flavius this game. Pre-read thoughts:

If EMC doesn't vote within the first 24 hours, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Kalel mentions his spreadsheet, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Vecna and/or xorxes survive past day 4, lynch their asses.

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Xorxes is Reaver Prime or on Mafia team 1. EZ game.

##Vote xorxes

What do you think is xorxes posting restrictions that he has to be following right now?

[worcej]

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Dear Reaver; do recruit me. I really want to find out what potentially ridiculous press restrictions there are, and how to bullshit 'em

This is town EMC.

I voiced my opinion already (NAI for him), but I am curious why you are towning him for it. Do tell!

[e.m.c^42]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

I did not expect such a brutal post right off the bat.

Ikr. Like I said, spicy like salt n pepper on boiled chicken thighs

[xorxes]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

[worcej]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I very much agree with xorxes analysis on the mass claim. We can't really worry about the neutral - we have no discernible way to parse who his targets are. We have a very solid amount of confirmable PRs that we can work out an optimal massclaim if we want to go that route.

That said, we know from pre-game that a few players such as worcej were firmly against it.

Just going to note that I did post my concern on doing it (minus my disdain for people ‘gaming the game’).

[xorxes]

I think you don’t know Town Jamie as well as you think you do...

I didn't understand that comment by emc.

I told him I would keep my vote on him until he "cast a f*cking vote". Note the asterisk.

Aha.

Then the comment makes little sense. I would expect being mindful of what you type as more calculated indicative than towny.

[Temasek22]

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

I just realised they got player names instead of player roles like the few previous games, oh well.

[worcej]

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

If some of their targets are the claimed roles, we increase their odds of winning because the target is in the open and we do not know who they are targeting.

I didn’t read the roles in detail yet, but I assume they have a kill of some sort.

[worcej]

I am flabbergasted! I would never be toxic and vile! The mere thought of that offends my delicate feelings.

I wonder if RP is required to be the most friendly and polite person as their posing requirements...

[xorxes]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I agree with this analysis but struggle with the 2nd mafia team’s recruitment. If we claim, it needs to probably be on D2 after this first recruitment to ensure the town clears are always clears.

Many of the town PRs can still clear themselves after N2. Also, converting a clear is tricky as well, because Mafia1 will want to go after them.

[e.m.c^42]

Aha.

Then the comment makes little sense. I would expect being mindful of what you type as more calculated indicative than towny.

Mhh, perhaps I'm just outdated, but Jamie is more "edgy" as scum?

[Temasek22]

I am flabbergasted! I would never be toxic and vile! The mere thought of that offends my delicate feelings.

I wonder if RP is required to be the most friendly and polite person as their posing requirements...

That would be wayyy too broad I guess. I think realistically the requirement would probs be usage of certain words or post counts or something like that.

[worcej]

You beat me on this.

Yet you didn't vote?

... It's the joke phase

I don’t think rdr was joking.

[xorxes]

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

If some of their targets are the claimed roles, we increase their odds of winning because the target is in the open and we do not know who they are targeting.

I didn’t read the roles in detail yet, but I assume they have a kill of some sort.

No, they don't have any kills. They have to get lucky, or very persuasive about who they want lynched/shot/NKd.

[teacon7]

Awwwww yissss. FIREFLY.

I'm gonna get caught up on the thread. While I do,

##CALL GM: why does this thread have [HIDDEN] at the end of the title? Is this somehow related to being a semi-open setup?

[worcej]

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I agree with this analysis but struggle with the 2nd mafia team’s recruitment. If we claim, it needs to probably be on D2 after this first recruitment to ensure the town clears are always clears.

Many of the town PRs can still clear themselves after N2. Also, converting a clear is tricky as well, because Mafia1 will want to go after them.

I am only trying to point out potential issues with a mass claim so we realize and analyze them before doing it.

That being said, you are right still. I don’t think my issue is ultimately addressed by what you said, it just makes it less hurtful potentially.

[xorxes]

I am flabbergasted! I would never be toxic and vile! The mere thought of that offends my delicate feelings.

I wonder if RP is required to be the most friendly and polite person as their posing requirements...

that would be funny, but too hard to referee.