M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[bo_sox48]

It's very tiring to play these games and hear the same useless plans from the same useless people over and over again all while other players who for whatever reason don't recognize the sad uselessness of those plans expect me to do their homework for them.

Here's a tl;dr if you need one for mafia on webDiplomacy:

• don't no lynch
• don't mass claim early
• don't hammer day 1
• don't needlessly inject mafia influence into something driven by town

[bo_sox48]

Kitsune, please come up with a better plan. It feels like you're poking holes rather than contributing here.

[Temasek22]

In favour: Bozo, Kitsune, KalelChase
Opposed: jamiet99uk, dargorygel, Damo666
Abstentions: Bunnygo, BobMcBob

I'll abstain

[bo_sox48]

Brainbomb, what did you do with bo?

[Temasek22]

Kitsune, please come up with a better plan. It feels like you're poking holes rather than contributing here.

Actually, how does this compare to last game when she was mafia? I find it kinda different but idk

[Temasek22]

Because I accidentally (read: purposefully) initiated the jokepost phase. Also, hey mafia buddies, how are you all?

@Bob: Dargorygel asked Squigs a question.

Why did you answer it?

Because it was correct. Squigs' vote was not a serious one, like all votes made in the first 2 hours.

FTFY

[Temasek22]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

[xorxes]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

Mafia scum, or third party scum?

[bo_sox48]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

Flip a coin?

[TrPrado]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

Flip a coin?

Will you be heads or tails?

[bo_sox48]

Nope.

[Kitsune]

Manipulating the daytime roles into picking from a pool of certain players allows the mafia to interfere in what would otherwise be a 100% town-driven process since our daytime town PRs are, obviously, town. Of course they're going to miss more often than they hit. All that takes is simple division to recognize that under 50% of the players in this game are mafia, and thus more than 50% of the players targetable are town. I don't know if you're good at this game or not, but either way <a>I don't think you're being genuine if you think that your experience in M49 is the end-all-be-all for the usage of town PRs with daytime actions.

I don't have a plan because as I so eloquently stated before, I don't care much for a discussion on the mechanics. Likewise, while I freely admit that narrowing the pool for the daytime PRs may make the likelihood of a counterclaim or of them simply hitting mafia greater, I also don't think that we should manipulate them, and thus, I'm not proposing a plan. <b> Sorry if that upsets you.

Bozo's plan is bad, albeit perhaps not invalid. But it's still bad.

As above, the only way that bozo's plan has any shot at working is if <c>a) we pick the point at which these claims happen for a reason, not because the clock has changed, and <d>b) more than one person claims (and I would argue at least five, as that seems to me a fair number where the validity of said claims may come into question for one or two claimants, thus narrowing our pool for today and for later).

Bolding and <> brackets in the above is mine, for reference.

a - I don't think that at all! I certainly still consider myself a newbie with a lot to learn. I did rather well in M49 but a lot of that was luck and it's largely been other people who've insisted I showed more skill than I really feel I had. In M49 the power roles that town had during the day were used poorly or unluckily and directly assisted mafia in winning. I have not played any other game and have no experience with any other game of forum mafia than M49 and a brief spell in the first draft of M50, and certainly defer to your experience there.

b - I'm not upset. Thank you for elaborating, I respect your views and am rarely bothered by people disagreeing with me. I try to take their new information on board and sometimes that changes my position. Not as yet in this case, but we have time.

c - Good idea. I don't yet have a better way to trigger a set of claims other than "we're getting close to EoD" and I feel giving everyone a chance to discuss claims and possibly use their day powers means we shouldn't leave this to the last minute, but I have no objection to any time we do this thing that's more than, say, three hours out from the adjudication. Noting that I'm on Australian time and adjudication is 9am my time, and I am typically not especially coherent between midnight and five although I can be around for special occasions.

d - This is also a good idea. Picking five people by the top five scum reads (if most of them aren't simply a 1-vote draw as they are now) or some other means decided by consensus would give us more information without wholly throwing the town open to assassination. I could ask "why five? why not three? why not seven?" but I'm happy with five and would support this modification if we can agree on how they're determined.

In M49 (yes I know. Shush, it's all I have to go on) I found that bozo was pushing a plan I didn't entirely agree with and seemed to push it despite attempts to distract him into doing something else. As a result and developing my town hunting techniques I voted to lynch him on Day 1 and he flipped town.

This is consistent with his meta here. It's a flawed plan, but I believe it's a genuine one and I don't have a better alternative yet. In any case, I do believe he's sincere and I feel this gets us more information than we lose - both in Day 1 and giving us information to review later.

[Squigs44]

I feel like Bo and damo are competing for the idgaf slot this game. The problem is that they are both quite good at it. I'm definitely getting more scum vibes from Bo then damo. Him calling people stupid from on high doesnt sit right with me

[Squigs44]

Everytime I think I understand the mechanics they change on me. I think waiting to massclaim is probably wisest with the new clarification on assassin, although I'm not entirely sure assassin would be able to complete their kills quickly enough unless they got lucky with their fake claim.

[Kitsune]

Kitsune, please come up with a better plan. It feels like you're poking holes rather than contributing here.

Better plan... aight, I'll try to think of something I guess.

I just don't want us sliding across the ice into the first day lynch with nothing better than he-said she-said.

[Squigs44]

I'm leaning town on Bozo, he's involving himself more than usual and although I dont think his idea will work quite how he thinks it will, the motivation behind it seems genuine.

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

[rdrivera2005]

I think the only benefit with this claiming plan is to catch a 3P. Scum can hide (until if/when their fake role can be claimed) if they are leading and thus we move to a mislynch.

I think it risks exposure for a non-game advancing catch.

If the scum claims a verifiable role, we would make them confirm it. If the scum claims a non-verifiable role, we would not necessarily avoid lynching them. It is the same thing that would happen at EOD, but it gives us more time to react.

There is a lot of shit that can happen on D1 without any claims being issued. Why not start there instead of pushing for claims?

IMO, the mass claim helps the scum the most, then town, followed by 3P players.

Nope, I don't like the massclaim concept and I always defend we should have some mechanics to avoid it, but in this game a massclaim favours town badly, specially with 3P not having a fake role to claim.

[Kitsune]

I'm leaning town on Bozo, he's involving himself more than usual and although I dont think his idea will work quite how he thinks it will, the motivation behind it seems genuine.

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

Same. I don't know if it will work but I do think it will help, and I townread Bozo as a result.

Also yes, my first "meta read" earlier. Seems consistent with townBozo.

[Squigs44]

Congrats, Squigs with one g... hope you get the job!

Why Jamie? And why start where we left off when we got new roles?

Because I accidentally (read: purposefully) initiated the jokepost phase. Also, hey mafia buddies, how are you all?

@Bob: Dargorygel asked Squigs a question.

Why did you answer it?

Because it's fun to answer questions for other people

[rdrivera2005]

##CALL GM - confirming the Assassin may only visit one target per night regardless of how many bullets they have?

This being said, I hadn't noticed that an Assassin win (if they are indeed in the game) doesn't prevent a town win which takes some of my concern away.

##Additional GM Note

Ah, I missed this the first time around. When the assassin completes their objective and exits the game, they are still considered "alive". They are also unable to be eliminated. Please refer to the roles doc for various win conditions.

Okay so for clarity town (thank you GM):

If the Assassin hits their targets and leaves:

Town can no longer win.
Mafia can win.
Arsonist cannot win (but doesn't exist if the Assassin is in play).
All other 3P roles may be able to win (Infector is the chanciest).

Any questions?

If this is the right interpretation the massclaim is completely out of question.