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Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 12:00 pm

I still think we've got to read Will for D1 and hold on to that reads list.

And identifying the bussers on Will.

There was a post I wrote for when D2 started. I want to go back to that with the VCA, despite ghug saying VCA on D1 isn't that critical, or whatever was said.

D1 VCA becomes better as more information flows in on alignments.

Lord of Words wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 12:52 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 12:45 pm

Vecna wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 7:30 am

the guy was unaware that the target of the NK has subbed out.

Do you really think that was faked?

Because that is generally what you actually call a real townslip.

I could agree with that if he wasn´t openly lying. He said he read the thread 3 times but it was true only if he read until page 25 when Brain subbed in as he included Dr. Fidelis and ignored Brain. But then he discussed the voting at EOD1, which either indicates he read until EOD1 at least or that he is using the bot (which he also said he isnt´t).

Then he tells he posted the wrong version of the file after checking it, but can´t bother to post the right version because "it´s too late". Another obvious lie, cause if you check you have the right version. I know a town can lie, but can´t see any reason to justify this other then panicking and I wonder why a VT will be panicking at this point.

I'm not panicking, but I would like to get this wagon off me and play through the game. I can guarantee that an absence and mistake are not a scum strategy, whereas powerwolfing is.

Just going to tell you we've had quite a few games where a scum player uses the "whoopsy-daisy, I am not following as well as I should be but am totally town guys!" make it almost to kilo off that.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 1:00 pm

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 12:14 pm

guys the obvious busser on will is sweet. will and i had been going at it for hours, and he's been given way too much credit for being the first vote. i registered in the thread at the time that i thought i was getting onto a wagon with a scum member on it bussing, and i just don't see how it doesn't work out to be either me or sweet as the earliest bus, from an outside pov

Aside from the idea I have that I "think" sweet is ok, it's also not like mafia wouldn't get an early bus vote on. Why wouldn't sweet have moved if Will was in trouble? I haven't looked at the EOD to see that particular timeline.

Agree here - I think scum!sweet had plenty of opportunity to move unless the bus on will was a team effort, but I don't think that it was.

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 3:01 pm

jamie spent much of d1 protecting will

now he protects sweet. coincidence?

What?

I'm not protecting Sweet.

Bonatogether wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:51 am

sweetandcool wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 5:21 am

Lord of Words wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 5:18 am

I would expect nothing less from someone I am accusing, but reads were asked for.

And we appreciate that you made the attempt.

I am not swayed, however. And I am disturbed that you seriously included two dead people in them.

what's the scum explanation for that, though? beyond just being disturbing

There is no specific scum explanation except possibly lying about their state of mind. They had claimed to have done a lot of close reading but then they contradict that notion by failing to notice a sub and then two deaths.

##vote Vecna

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:50 am

Lord of Words wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 6:03 am

I'd like the vote reconsidered, so I'm happy to answer questions about my reads list and myself to that end.

Question 1: Why did you think Dr.Fidelis was still in the game?

Question 2: Why did you think Foodcoats was still in the game?

If you actually "read the thread three times" and you are an experienced player of this kind of game, I find it very hard to understand how you would completely fail to notice people dying. Player deaths, and the accompanying role flips, are pretty much the most important pieces of information revealed during the game.

Your reads list appears to be what it would have been after 24 hours of Day One. It is currently the latter part of Day Two.

This is all highly suspect.

Lord of Words has not answered my questions despite (a) promising to answer questions and (b) posting other things since I asked.

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:58 am

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:55 am

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:44 am

Read list when you've caught up please.

Ain't gonna happen, at least not what I think you're looking for. From the hip and from the collection of posts I recall:
Damo: you look shitty for the vig shot
Vecna: you look lazy for the the easy scumread of me; it's like you're mafia latching on to the easy miskill.
Bunny: you look pretty good to me
Sweet: you also look pretty good, although someone said something about you openwolfing. I don't think I've seen that yet so I disagree
Rivera: haven't seen a lot but the post on bozo rings with me, but that's not enough to put him in the good camp
Bozo: Rivera has a point
Jamie: I have a pretty hard time getting his vibes, but probably in the could be town/could be mafia list
Sparta: I liked the bussing post; that's a lot of writing and comes off as genuine town
Lord: pressured into committing to the game; wall posts which I don't think mafia would publish. Not solid town but not the miskill that Jamie wanted earlier in the day

forgetting some, I know, which suggests they haven't made an impression on me as of yet

oh, ghug. I think ghug is ok

So, Vecna Bozo and who?

rivera, maybe still one of the new players.

E.g. I have some doubts about LordofWords. And while Sparta displayed some good work, which I like, I could easily see it in his scum range, given how confidently he has played the game since the start.

Could simply throw Ham in there.

Otherwise everyone else is fairly off my radar for now.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:47 am

BunnyGo wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 5:53 am

Oh man. I missed this wagon was full.

##vote Balki

"I missed this wagon was full"... what does that even begin to mean?

Why are you voting Balki here?

I was the 8th or 9th on him. It was a runaway and I have enough players in my POE that I wanted to push on Balki. Read my post about him.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 2:12 pm

Against my better nature I'd take the gamble of putting Sweet up today then, on the hypothesis that it was a very early bus.

Please read my ISO first then.

I make what I would from an outside view consider a great case as to why I was not a busser.

In case you don't, the biggest clue is that when I have bussed Will in the past it was because I couldn't resist scumreading him anymore. Then I campaigned energetically against him.

I DID NOT do that this game. Also, holy shit I am sick of bussing and bussing Will in particular. I have hated not getting past D1 as Mafia and I would not spitefully take that chance from a teammate just for laughs.

Caught up. Don’t like the Vecna wagon. Gonna go back to the right one: ##vote bozo

BunnyGo wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 3:45 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:47 am

BunnyGo wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 5:53 am

Oh man. I missed this wagon was full.

##vote Balki

"I missed this wagon was full"... what does that even begin to mean?

Why are you voting Balki here?

I was the 8th or 9th on him. It was a runaway and I have enough players in my POE that I wanted to push on Balki. Read my post about him.

You were the 7th, but okay, I get it.

I'm really not getting all of the votes on sweetandcool. I genuinely think that sweet's reaction to the bussing accusation is genuine.

Can someone summarize the case against Vecna for me?

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:55 am

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:44 am

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:40 am

I kind of wasn't; had about an hour spent on D1 and this D up to this point. Today should be a bit better.

Read list when you've caught up please.

Ain't gonna happen, at least not what I think you're looking for. From the hip and from the collection of posts I recall:
Damo: you look shitty for the vig shot
Vecna: you look lazy for the the easy scumread of me; it's like you're mafia latching on to the easy miskill.
Bunny: you look pretty good to me
Sweet: you also look pretty good, although someone said something about you openwolfing. I don't think I've seen that yet so I disagree
Rivera: haven't seen a lot but the post on bozo rings with me, but that's not enough to put him in the good camp
Bozo: Rivera has a point
Jamie: I have a pretty hard time getting his vibes, but probably in the could be town/could be mafia list
Sparta: I liked the bussing post; that's a lot of writing and comes off as genuine town
Lord: pressured into committing to the game; wall posts which I don't think mafia would publish. Not solid town but not the miskill that Jamie wanted earlier in the day

forgetting some, I know, which suggests they haven't made an impression on me as of yet

oh, ghug. I think ghug is ok

Mean.

Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 4:13 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:55 am

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 11:44 am

Read list when you've caught up please.

Ain't gonna happen, at least not what I think you're looking for. From the hip and from the collection of posts I recall:
Damo: you look shitty for the vig shot
Vecna: you look lazy for the the easy scumread of me; it's like you're mafia latching on to the easy miskill.
Bunny: you look pretty good to me
Sweet: you also look pretty good, although someone said something about you openwolfing. I don't think I've seen that yet so I disagree
Rivera: haven't seen a lot but the post on bozo rings with me, but that's not enough to put him in the good camp
Bozo: Rivera has a point
Jamie: I have a pretty hard time getting his vibes, but probably in the could be town/could be mafia list
Sparta: I liked the bussing post; that's a lot of writing and comes off as genuine town
Lord: pressured into committing to the game; wall posts which I don't think mafia would publish. Not solid town but not the miskill that Jamie wanted earlier in the day

forgetting some, I know, which suggests they haven't made an impression on me as of yet

oh, ghug. I think ghug is ok

Mean.

I know Balki was looking for attention earlier.

Balki, I like your mustache.

LoW's post based on Will's reads list (and damo's explanation of what he was attempting to do) gave me an idea for more research.

Will has been Mafia three (!) times since he has started playing. I decided to go back and look at the Day 1s of his previous two games: what kind of reads does he put out on his teammates?

-------------------------------------------

M86: His initial reads list is in CAPITALS; later reads are put inside [brackets].

bozotheclown: NULL
brainbomb: NULL [to Mafia]
BunnyGo: NULL-LEANING MAFIA [this may have strengthened]
Chaqa: NULL-LEANING TOWN
damo666: NULL
foodcoats: TOWN LEAN
Frogsterking: SLIGHT MAFIA LEAN
ghug: NULL [to town]
Hamilton Brian: NULL [later indicated he was okay with potential Ham wagon]
heartthrob24909: TOWN LEAN
Jamiet99uk: NULL LEANING TOWN
sweetandcool: MAFIA LEAN
Vecna: NULL

Who actually were the Mafia? sweetandcool (his vote) and Hamilton Brian.

So, he put neither of his actual teammates in a town-lean bucket. He spent most of the day throwing sweetandcool under the bus [is that where the term "bussing" comes from?], and didn't have too much to say about Hamilton Brian (except to indicate he was okay with that potential wagon right near the end of the day).

-------------------------------------------

M84: Past Will didn't do future me the favor of making one tight readlist on Day 1, so I will attempt to put together my best version of this. Most of them are blank.

bozotheclown:
BunnyGo:
Chaqa:
damo666:
ghug:
Hamilton Brian: did crack a semi-joke about Mafia chat
heartthrob24909:
Jamiet99uk:
Macca573: Suspected Macca
Bonatogether: Voted for Bonatogether early on (also made a joke about them being partners)
rdrivera2005:
SpiritoftheRadio: Had
sweetandcool: Very much suspected sweetand cool (and voted for him)
Temasek22:
worcej:

That's not a lot of information; let's look at Day 2. When asked for a list of 3 Mafia, he put down ghug (explaining it simply because ghug suspected him), along with two of:
{Jamie, Worcej, Heartthrob, Bunny}. That was early in the day; he actually later voted for Hamilton Brian.

Who actually were the Mafia?

sweetandcool, worcej, ghug. That's who he came down hard on in the first day, and the other two quickly got put on his suspicious list the second day.

-------------------------------------------

The important lesson to learn here is that Will does *not* seem to like to put out *any* town reads on his teammates, or at least not in the first day or two. I don't think this is the kind of part of his gameplay that would change.

So where does that leave us for this game? Here is his list of reads (right before brainbomb came in):

TOWN: Would not flip today
—
Spart
Lord
Jamie
Sweet
—
LEAN TOWN: Would only flip if alternative is higher up
—
Ghug
King
Food
—
NULL: Would (also) only flip if alternative is higher up
—
DrFid
Worcej
Balki
Rdr
Damo
—
SCUM: Would flip today
—
Vecna
Bunny
Bozo
Bona

Given what I have previously seen, I don't think that the Mafia are to be found in his TOWN/LEAN TOWN categories.

The one most likely exception to that is LoW; we know that the two of them know each other in real life (or at least outside of this website). I could see him doing a favor for his friend.

As a postscript, Will also divided a bunch of people into two groups that he claimed were seemed suspicious of each other:

Foodcoats, Balki, Jamie, Will, Vecna (acknowledging that he didn't really trust Vecna)

and

Bunny, Bona, Bozo, (sweet?), (brain?).

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I think that his Mafia teammates are more likely than not to be on this list (again, excepting LoW, who really wasn't playing at this point).

I am getting ready to go out but I swear I read a Will post that could have been considered "coaching" on D1. No time to find it right now.

Spartaculous wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 4:25 pm

As a postscript, Will also divided a bunch of people into two groups that he claimed were seemed suspicious of each other:

Foodcoats, Balki, Jamie, Will, Vecna (acknowledging that he didn't really trust Vecna)

and

Bunny, Bona, Bozo, (sweet?), (brain?).

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I think that his Mafia teammates are more likely than not to be on this list (again, excepting LoW, who really wasn't playing at this point).

One correction to your analysis:

Every game Will mentions the new players he will protect.

I am 100% confident he put Sparta and LoW into his Town regardless of their alignment.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 4:27 pm

I am getting ready to go out but I swear I read a Will post that could have been considered "coaching" on D1. No time to find it right now.

Did you read my post about why I wasn't bussing?