Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[bo_sox48]

Damo, would you care to reply to me?

[yavuzovic]

You made many mistakes in your realist, do I judge you for that?

Completely different. You made mistakes about actual data.

My opinions could be right or wrong, that cannot be mistakes until the facts are known. But perhaps you know the facts. Scumslip Yav?

What damo! Do you seriously think this is scum indicative? You weren't that stupid when you were scumreading me last game.

[bo_sox48]

Why does Bo think Vecna's comment was "well put"?

Because it makes a lot of sense. Tom didn't do anything to stand out that would have gotten him killed unless we're all missing a breadcrumb. As such, he had to have stood out to the scumteam specifically by not standing out. The only other reason to N1 him would have been as a fearkill. As such, Vecna's comment is well put - it describes the situation accurately.

And why does it scream Balki to Bo?

Because you are just the guy who would pull the trigger on someone thinking they are a PR simply because they are not standing out in a certain way and you are just the guy who would be able to convince the rest of his teammates that your kill is the right path to follow even though it doesn't make much sense.

And then why does Bo think that Vecna is underestimating me?

Because he claims that you wouldn't know anything about Tom because you don't play Tom often, which is not only wrong in that you have played with Tom numerous times but also just flat out stupid to dismiss a good player simply because of the number of games he has played.

[ND]

Damo is pretty obvious scum. I'm concentrating on others and data conclusions ATM.

[damo666]

Damo, would you care to reply to me?

Yes.

My basic message is I'd like to see one of my scumsea lynched.

I'd also rather be sacrificed than lose a town PR. Having said that if I am in a position to save myself over one of my townreads of course I'll save myself.

Btw I thought RagingIke's VT claim was entirely unnecessary at the time and is either badtown or scum trying to confuse.

[damo666]

You made many mistakes in your realist, do I judge you for that?

Completely different. You made mistakes about actual data.

My opinions could be right or wrong, that cannot be mistakes until the facts are known. But perhaps you know the facts. Scumslip Yav?

What damo! Do you seriously think this is scum indicative? You weren't that stupid when you were scumreading me last game.

I'm just explaining the difference between an outright mistake and opinions which might be right or wrong. the scumslip comment was to wind you up. Apparently successfully.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Why does Bo think Vecna's comment was "well put"?

Because it makes a lot of sense. Tom didn't do anything to stand out that would have gotten him killed unless we're all missing a breadcrumb. As such, he had to have stood out to the scumteam specifically by not standing out. The only other reason to N1 him would have been as a fearkill. As such, Vecna's comment is well put - it describes the situation accurately.

Okay, so your interpretation of Vecna's comment is that Tom was likely killed because he was quieter than his meta, and scum thought he might be a PR. I think that is what Vecna was saying too, but then he says something at the end about Tom not being a "threat," which threw me off. Let's assume that your interpretation of what Venca said is what Vecna meant.

For the record, my best guess at why Tom was killed is a combination of three factors. (1) Scum thought Tom was a possible PR. Maybe it's because he was a bit quiet and wasn't at the center of pushing a wagon, that sort of thing. (2) Scum thought Tom was a strong player, so it would be good to knock him out whether he is a PR or not, and (3) Scum tried to avoid the most obvious Box/Doc saves. With two potential ways to prevent the Night Kill on N1, it makes some sense for scum to avoid the most obvious targets. In my mind, the most obvious NK targets on N1 were likely Xorxes, ghug, and Balki.

And why does it scream Balki to Bo?

Because you are just the guy who would pull the trigger on someone thinking they are a PR simply because they are not standing out in a certain way and you are just the guy who would be able to convince the rest of his teammates that your kill is the right path to follow even though it doesn't make much sense.

There is so much assumption packed into this narrative you've written here.

You are assuming that (a) I would want to kill Tom if I were scum, (b) most of the other scum team would not want to kill Tom, and (c) so I am more likely to be scum because I would have had the wrong idea to kill Tom coupled with the ability to convince my teammates of the wrong idea...

What a bizarre yarn to spin. First, I don't think it's at all far-fetched that the majority of the scum team decided to kill Tom on Night 1. Why would it take someone who "is good at convincing people to do dumb things" to make that hard sell? You're assuming so much about a scumthread dynamic that town knows so little about right now. I mean, if you are town, you know so little about what was discussed in the mafia QT, it is odd that you are hinging your opinions on so much assumption.

Second, I'm surprised that you think I would have the wrong NK strategy, and you know the right NK strategy. (1) What was the right strategy for scum on the N1 kill? (2) How could you possibly think that I would have the wrong strategy? You know, more than most, that I am God's gift to Webdiplomacy and strategic thinking in general. If you don't, in the words of Nicki Minaj, "Somebody please tell him who the "F" I is."

But for real, the fact that Tom was the NK "screams Balki"? Such strong language. It screams Balki based on all of these assumptions about (1) Tom being a bad NK target, (2) nevertheless Balki thinking he is the right target based on Balki thinking Tom was a PR, (3) nevertheless Balki being persuasive to tell his teammates to kill the wrong guy. It "screams Balki"?

That is super bizarre.

And then why does Bo think that Vecna is underestimating me?

Because he claims that you wouldn't know anything about Tom because you don't play Tom often, which is not only wrong in that you have played with Tom numerous times but also just flat out stupid to dismiss a good player simply because of the number of games he has played.

I've played with Tom enough to know he is a strong player. I disagree with your assumptions about his lack of activity indicating he was a PR -- I think Tom was fairly active Day 1, and I don't think he is the type to change activity much based on his role alignment -- but none of this has to do with how much I have played against Tom. I have played against Tom in several games I think.

[bo_sox48]

You are assuming that (a) I would want to kill Tom if I were scum, (b) most of the other scum team would not want to kill Tom, and (c) so I am more likely to be scum because I would have had the wrong idea to kill Tom coupled with the ability to convince my teammates of the wrong idea...

I don't know who you would want to kill if you were scum, but someone that you felt was hiding in just the right way makes a fair bit of sense. Likewise, someone who was hiding in just the right way to you probably makes very little sense to the majority of people that play this game without some explanation, so they would have had to be convinced.

I did not say you were more likely scum. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've really done much in the way of publicizing my reads this game and I prefer to keep it that way, thank you. I only said that Vecna's theory fits you pretty well in my opinion, and it just so happens that I believe his theory is probably correct. If you felt like it, you might note that I even said my scumread on you has diminished in the last day, but I have no trouble admitting that damo's flip will probably either implicate or potentially clear you more than theories over Tom's death, so I'm awaiting that near-inevitability before I really bother taking an in-depth look at you.

First, I don't think it's at all far-fetched that the majority of the scum team decided to kill Tom on Night 1. Why would it take someone who "is good at convincing people to do dumb things" to make that hard sell? You're assuming so much about a scumthread dynamic that town knows so little about right now. I mean, if you are town, you know so little about what was discussed in the mafia QT, it is odd that you are hinging your opinions on so much assumption.

I'm only rolling with the theory. If I build a path off of assumptions but it gets me somewhere, what's it matter? Yeah, of course I'm assuming things. I don't know who the scumteam is, I don't know if they're smart people or dumb people, and I don't know if they're playing above or below their potential. I don't know if they decided to kill Tom because they thought he was a PR or if they hate my uncle Tom and want to kill anyone named Tom or if they flipped a coin and it landed tails down and Tom's face up. There's no available evidence to corroborate a theory, which is why it's a theory, so unless you simply want to be like my seventh grade science teacher and ramble on about how theories are useless without corroborating evidence, completely dismissing the fact that corroborating evidence may turn up if you flip over enough stones, stop being so offended that I would dare make an assumption. If I said "this is my case, []VOTE Balki," then yeah dude come at me, but I didn't.

Second, I'm surprised that you think I would have the wrong NK strategy, and you know the right NK strategy. (1) What was the right strategy for scum on the N1 kill? (2) How could you possibly think that I would have the wrong strategy? You know, more than most, that I am God's gift to Webdiplomacy and strategic thinking in general. If you don't, in the words of Nicki Minaj, "Somebody please tell him who the "F" I is."

Since we're twisting my words here, I don't know what your NK strategy would be and I don't know what my NK strategy would be. I haven't actually thought much about my NK strategy so far in this game because I haven't had the opportunity to kill anyone at night. You have clearly thought about it rather extensively, though, so do tell - what's your NK strategy in this game?

The right strategy for scum on N1 was whatever gets them closer to their goals. If their goal is to kill off PRs, then they should target PRs. If their goal is to fearkill, they should fearkill. If their goal is to kill talkers, they should kill talkers. If their goal is to avoid box/doc saves, then they should target people who wouldn't likely be box/doc saves (to your credit I hadn't even thought of that as a reason for Tom dying to begin with until you recently brought it up). I don't know what the right strategy is because I don't know what their goals are to try and win this game, and even if I did, I don't think I would be dumb enough to suggest it here.

You are most definitely nothing remotely close to God's gift to webDiplomacy. First of all, webDiplomacy is spelled webDiplomacy, not Webdiplomacy. If you can't properly capitalize webDiplomacy, you're more of a menace than a gift. Second of all, you've got ... nah, I'll stop myself.

[Balki Bartokomous]

So...you’re not commenting on my alignment because you haven’t thought about it and you’re not publicizing your reads. And you’re not commenting on what you think mafia’s NK strategy is. So There is no real point to engaging with any of your comments.

Why post at all, Bo? It seems like you could execute your strategy perfectly by ordering an overstuffed roast beef sandwich and burrowing yourself in an old sleeping bag until next Thursday.

[bo_sox48]

How did I not comment on your alignment? Did you miss this tidbit?

you might note that I even said my scumread on you has diminished in the last day

My reads aren't important and neither are yours or anyone else's, so no, I'm not posting reads lists full of the kind of diarrhea I get from Taco Bell. I don't think an overstuffed roast beef sandwich would give me that kind of diarrhea though.

[Balki Bartokomous]

How did I not comment on your alignment? Did you miss this tidbit?

you might note that I even said my scumread on you has diminished in the last day

My reads aren't important and neither are yours or anyone else's, so no, I'm not posting reads lists full of the kind of diarrhea I get from Taco Bell. I don't think an overstuffed roast beef sandwich would give me that kind of diarrhea though.

I don't feel that it is necessary to know exactly what I am. The main interest in life and work is to become someone else that you were not in the beginning. If you knew when you began a book what you would say at the end, do you think that you would have the courage to write it? What is true for writing and for a love relationship is true also for life. The game is worthwhile insofar as we don't know what will be the end. My field is the history of thought. Man is a thinking being.

[damo666]

Pretty NAI

[ghug]

Bo, there's a difference between not giving stupid read lists and hiding your thoughts. Why are you doing the latter?

[bo_sox48]

Bo, there's a difference between not giving stupid read lists and hiding your thoughts. Why are you doing the latter?

I'm not.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Bo, there's a difference between not giving stupid read lists and hiding your thoughts. Why are you doing the latter?

I'm not.

You are a piece of work.

[bo_sox48]

K.

[xorxes]

In case I die tonight, here are my last instructions for you all: Lynch Ezio then Yavu then ND then DrCJG. I have some ideas about who the last one might be, but I don't want to do all your work for you.

[damo666]

Thanks xorxes. I hope you survive.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Ezio is playing? Really?

Where is Ezio?

[DemonRHK]

Being a wagon twice I highly expect to survive the night.

Yavu is back to the top of my scum list. He’s repeatedly made incorrect statements and odd phrasing and gets to ‘lol you know what I mean’ every time, it’s bullshit.

Ike and Balki are next. Ike’s had very little that has left an impression aside from his box junk, and had some really weird interactions regarding Ike (stating he refused to talk about the box, then trying to talk about it to Ike, shading the wagon day 2 when xorx joined it), it may just be one of the two but there’s a lot of crossover there.

Ghug has been laying super low, I think he may be scum that did not think thd would develop and planned to be off the lead wagons, but got stuck. He’s just been too quiet for Ghug.

Lastly in the sus list is both replaced slots. Jamie states a meta fight and Szpot did everything possible to force himself as a null. Flash hasn’t done a ton either and Ezio remains to be seen but has a lot to answer for on his predecessor.

Townies are xorx (xorx has been active in a way I wouldn’t expect as scum), Durga (Scum Durga wouldn’t have engaged Jamie like that), Vecna (Making pointed cases and questions instead of obscuring shit in giant posts or super lurking), and damo (Scum wouldn’t act like that under the gallows, especially twice)

Lean town on DrC, bo, bozo, Squiggs, and ND. Null on the rest.