M80 Game Thread

[Bonatogether]

I also notice that bona is the top wagon and thus far I kinda thought they were fine so I prob should figure out why.

i'm always a day 1 wagon

[Bonatogether]

Cause at least it seems like a joke to me and I've never really noticed a trend with them before tbh. If anything it feels like an easy vote as a wolf.

real

[brainbomb]

Bonatogether, a Retrospective

I want to preface this by saying that I am scumleaning bona here so I am approaching this from a compare contrast of his past scumgame posting habits, to this game.

Rather than flooding you with quotes from past games - which would only cause confusion I will summarize the games here briefly.

A few games ago Bona was Mafia with ghug, and Eden. A pretty powerful team. Bona nearly died day 1, but with Eden the two were the games top posters. Bona finished the game as mafia godfather as its top posting player at 721 posts. He was pretty jokey, non comittal, and spent a ton of energy and time just arguing and joking with Eden. On day one the wagons set themselves up strangely and Bunny was up for elimination, while counterwagons formed on damo, flyingboat, and bona. When bona was under duresss his team bussed him, including ghug.
After day 1 bona was rarely ever under much pressure and he was able to continue deep into the game undetected and forgotten.


Prior to this, there was the Champs game last year where I was town and Bona was mafia. One of the earliest instances I can remember was Bona seeing his scum partner neopest getting townread for doing fairly simplistic things. And bona called it out, and seemed annoyed. It was an intelligent move which I assume was fueled by distancing ideation. On the number of times bona nearly died that game, his entire wolfteam was voting him and bussing.

The common themes in every scumgame ive observed is that scumteams tend to use bona for clout, and "IF" they think hes going to die they have little problem doing what needs to be done.


As for posting style its insanely hard to tell a difference. In his earliest times as scum, and in champs he has a tendency to attack a read he thinks looks like something he should be questioning: (neopest example).

So how does this factor in with this game:

kak doesnt seem very town.

its quite look at me im so town; but its mostly flavour talk and randomly deciding people are pirates

someone says this every game

my memory doesn't stretch back that far

okay
kak is scum because hes playing too much like scum bona does

noted but not expressing agreement with

i similarly dislike this

Sure. Care to explain? Why have you decided to just say you dislike my posts yet fail to answer my question or clarify your reasons?

i didn't fail to answer your question - i just hadn't attempted it at that time

to extemporize, i dislike this post specifically because it's Serious and uses big words like Wolf Reading and Pressure and Throwaway, when i only know words less than 7 letters, and it's day 1, so like, who cares man? just figure it out later and have fun now

i feel like someone unused to webdip is likely to enter day 1 on a different gear than most other people here are on, and their reactions to that (and if and how they switch gears to be in sync) is revealing

I find this post to seem more like Town!Bona than Scum.

i didn't fail to answer your question - i just hadn't attempted it at that time

to extemporize, i dislike this post specifically because it's Serious and uses big words like Wolf Reading and Pressure and Throwaway, when i only know words less than 7 letters, and it's day 1, so like, who cares man? just figure it out later and have fun now

i feel like someone unused to webdip is likely to enter day 1 on a different gear than most other people here are on, and their reactions to that (and if and how they switch gears to be in sync) is revealing

What would a townie reaction to it have been?

obligatory it depends on the person - for example, neon will always dig in her heels, so that doesn't make sense to read her off it. i don't know the x man well enough yet but i am watching

This also seems more likely to come from Town Bona than Scum.

eden is scum again

I cant tell sometimes when Bona is being serious because every post he makes is also a comedy routine. So sometimes the punch line of the joke is to make a scumread that is so absurdist that he thinks he is coming off as funny. And despite my repeated inclinations that Eden is indeed scum, I struggle seeing a post at the back of some giant quote, where its a one liner claiming Eden is scum; is truth.

So I cant call this towny really. I dont even know if this is real.

i think eden is capable of giving a lot of smoke and a lot of flair but as scum he just doesn't have substance

brain had it right earlier on, but it's really the case - see me vs eden last game. eden tried to make it a credibility war where we would together decide on options to resolve a hard cc battle, but really that was dumb. town eden isn't stupid

Now this is real. And this is the chorus of the scumread.
I also agree with these talking points. And I dont think scum bona would say this about scum eden at all.

i think eden is capable of giving a lot of smoke and a lot of flair but as scum he just doesn't have substance

brain had it right earlier on, but it's really the case - see me vs eden last game. eden tried to make it a credibility war where we would together decide on options to resolve a hard cc battle, but really that was dumb. town eden isn't stupid

well, I don't see it in the post from eden that you quoted. I guess I should stop for today and look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. And probably look at the brain/eden argument again just to be sure, but not before I go to sleep.

that post just set off alarm bells for what i viewed as a facetious attempt to set up pyxxy towards scumreading me. i don't object to being scumread, or to people convincing other people to scumreading me, but that it seemed to be being done on the sly like it was is a red flag for me

This paranoia, and the way it is explained comes exclusively from a geniunely concerned town!bona.



The self deprecation

jokes on you i'm scum

red alert red alert calling eden ghug is bussing me again

a wise guy once said that self-awareness is scummy

These posts do no service to Bona, and confuse people. This is his cynicism, and his humor. When hes mafia this usually manifests itself in a more defensive way, and there is enough body of evidence for me to move bona out of my scum leans based on what ive read.

[Bonatogether]

No, only one person, Worcej.

Brainbowl earlier claimed non-PR.

Bona claimed PR just a bit ago, but I assume he trying to make it look like a joke. (This was also part of why I voted him.)

He also said he wouldn’t be active at EOD. I somewhat suspect that he joked about being PR so that if we put him on the chopping block while he’s not here, we may have second thoughts about whether or not he was actually joking.

nah it was just funny in the moment

[Bonatogether]

beancomb pocketed me

[brainbomb]

##vote President Eden

[brainbomb]

And yea foxcastle is doing a really good job of powerwolfing. And nobody seems to be calling it out. But his posts are exclusively from a scum mindset.

[President Eden]

Maybe instead of ISOing Bona and only reading his side of the discussion, you should read the exchange I had with pyx about Bona, where it was overwhelmingly obvious that I was questioning pyx about how his read on Bona developed because I was suspicious of pyx, not Bona.

It’s depressing to think you might actually be town and simply have no reading comprehension ability whatsoever

[Bonatogether]

And yea foxcastle is doing a really good job of powerwolfing. And nobody seems to be calling it out. But his posts are exclusively from a scum mindset.

i don't have a basis of understanding for fox but i think i agree

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote pres

Would vote kaka, or brain right now too. Would not vote worcej, sweet, bona, or new players.

You're voting President Eden and you would also vote Brainbomb.

You therefore surmise that their massive argument was scum theatre, yes?

No.

You listed three people you would vote for.
Presumably you scumread or at least scumlean those three people.

Two of your three targets spent 20+ pages having a massive argument that is one of the most notable parts of D1 so far.

If you don't think it was s v s, do you therefore think that if one of Brain / Eden is scum, the other must be town?

I'm sure it's relatively clear why I'm asking about this.

[rdrivera2005]

And yea foxcastle is doing a really good job of powerwolfing. And nobody seems to be calling it out. But his posts are exclusively from a scum mindset.

I can't read Fox and promised I won't vote him D1 again after miskilling him D1 last game.

[Jamiet99uk]

And yea foxcastle is doing a really good job of powerwolfing. And nobody seems to be calling it out. But his posts are exclusively from a scum mindset.

Expand

[rdrivera2005]

I think Jamiet have a good point about Bunny ignoring completely the exchange between Eden and Brain on his vote possibilities. His answer is also poor so I am moving Bunny out of my not vote list.

I don't like Bona wagon, it's lazy just not sure if it's scum motivated or not.

Right now I will go with my original gut feeling and ##vote sweetandcool

[brainbomb]

on reread fox is actually pumping out alot of townreads. I retract my statement.

[BunnyGo]

You're voting President Eden and you would also vote Brainbomb.

You therefore surmise that their massive argument was scum theatre, yes?

No.

You listed three people you would vote for.
Presumably you scumread or at least scumlean those three people.

Two of your three targets spent 20+ pages having a massive argument that is one of the most notable parts of D1 so far.

If you don't think it was s v s, do you therefore think that if one of Brain / Eden is scum, the other must be town?

I'm sure it's relatively clear why I'm asking about this.

You’ve been having trouble connecting dots this game more than I remember.

Yes: I have found both Eden and brain’s posts scummier than townier.
Yes: they had an argument
Do I think it was SvS? <shrug> the disengagement of the argument seemed to read like at least one of them had decided they’d pushed it enough, done their part and was done. But that was the only part that seemed possibly SvS.

And finally: No. I honestly cannot follow your thoughts on why this is “relatively clear” you think this is an interesting thing to investigate. Please elaborate in clear kings English.

[brainbomb]

I'm not inclined to think Bunny is scum for this (as others pointed out, much better for scum-bunny to keep it quiet and get an easy PR kill). On the other hand, I could see town-Bunny wanting to prove himself by catching scum so badly that he doesn't stop to think about other possibilities.

(I also think there's something like a 10% chance that worcej is scum and faking it here. The fact that he's blown up and claimed PR in similar situations is what makes me think he's town, but it's also the case that he knows this and could try to fake it. WIFOM. But I'm only going to seriously entertain this if he's still around on like Day 4 or something.)

Moving my vote to ##VOTE BONA. Someone once said that only scum joke about being scum.

were they correct?

No idea, as it was proverb someone mentioned in (I think) my first game (possibly even in the scum chat). I recall once that ghug (I think?) showed up to a game pretending to be angry that he'd rolled scum, and ended up being town. But that wasn't joking, that was a bit.

Do you have counterexamples?

Im absolutely certain that Town Maniac claimed scum once, that Town Jamie has claimed scum before, and I know for a fact that Town!Me has claimed scum on several occasions. Fluminator has done it before if I recall, in any case, it isnt good play, but it does happen. I would encourage you to read the Bona ISO, and my analysis. And at least do the due diligence on it.

[brainbomb]

I think Jamiet have a good point about Bunny ignoring completely the exchange between Eden and Brain on his vote possibilities. His answer is also poor so I am moving Bunny out of my not vote list.

I don't like Bona wagon, it's lazy just not sure if it's scum motivated or not.

Right now I will go with my original gut feeling and ##vote sweetandcool

Do you imagine that town will eventually have to resolve myself, eden, bunnygo? any of those people?

you really dont want to see any of those flips?

[brainbomb]

No.

You listed three people you would vote for.
Presumably you scumread or at least scumlean those three people.

Two of your three targets spent 20+ pages having a massive argument that is one of the most notable parts of D1 so far.

If you don't think it was s v s, do you therefore think that if one of Brain / Eden is scum, the other must be town?

I'm sure it's relatively clear why I'm asking about this.

You’ve been having trouble connecting dots this game more than I remember.

Yes: I have found both Eden and brain’s posts scummier than townier.
Yes: they had an argument
Do I think it was SvS? <shrug> the disengagement of the argument seemed to read like at least one of them had decided they’d pushed it enough, done their part and was done. But that was the only part that seemed possibly SvS.

And finally: No. I honestly cannot follow your thoughts on why this is “relatively clear” you think this is an interesting thing to investigate. Please elaborate in clear kings English.

Does the fact that I keep presenting talking points related too the argument, restating my positions on it, while also factoring in what bona has expressed about Edens scum game and what he is doing. That the argument between Eden and I has core talking points and those talking points keep getting ignored.

Everytime I articulate my positions or concerns in some new way "thinking maybe I was being unfair or unreasonable" the only rebuttals I get back are that my reading comprehension is poor, and that I am misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

There is never any new elaboration, or new thoughts. In fact the only revision ive seen thus far was regarding Damo where he actually produced a prompt for how to read damo, which I have analyzed, dismissed, and there has been no attempt to refute my dismissal of said read.

I can reiterate it if you require but no one read any of it the first four times so it seems like people have just checked out on reading anything.

[BunnyGo]

@brain

I’m reading you still, but that’s not worth hijacking my question to Jamie.

I see you reading bona from this and previous games. Here’s a cookie

The towniest thing you’ve done IMO is quickly changing your mind about Fox. Here’s a cookie

[worcej]

And this is better…how?

Whatever. I’ll move you to my town core…apologies for misreading you.

I think it was apparent he would be the DK over that post once you started pushing it if he did not claim PR, so I would not rule out a fake claim. However, that will resolve itself eventually.

Bozo may be scum here.