M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[BobMcBob]

Whoops, should have read a bit further. Like literally the next post.

[Kitsune]

Why 24 hours? Why not 12 hours? Why not 6 hours? Likewise, why not give the various daytime killing roles we may have a chance to do their jobs?

I may support this if it your idea were to do something meaningful for a good reason, but instead you'd like to do something meaningful at the pass of an arbitrary number.

Hi Bo_sox,

I think M49 we had enough of an experience with daytime killing roles picking their targets without more to go on than meta perception. I'm absolutely not against trying to find a better way to glean information about who is what and who doesn't want what revealed and I have been saying constantly that we shouldn't try a mass claim, but it feels like you're poking holes rather than contributing here. To paraphrase:

"But he doesn't have a plan, he just doesn't like [bozo]'s!"

Not saying it's a perfect plan and of course we're using arbitrary numbers here. Suggest a better one and we can do yours instead?

[BunnyGo]

Whoops, should have read a bit further. Like literally the next post.

Definitely accidentally

[e.m.c^42]

##CALL GM - confirming the Assassin may only visit one target per night regardless of how many bullets they have?

This being said, I hadn't noticed that an Assassin win (if they are indeed in the game) doesn't prevent a town win which takes some of my concern away.

##Additional GM Note

Ah, I missed this the first time around. When the assassin completes their objective and exits the game, they are still considered "alive". They are also unable to be eliminated. Please refer to the roles doc for various win conditions.

[dargorygel]

#opposed
For my reasons stated against massclaiming in general (although bozo did answer my assassin fear...) but also, because if we force our top two wagons at the end of tomorrow night... and they reveal... we simply allow one of the potentially good PRs to be NKed. And the scum can simply claim their other roles.

I don't see how this helps.

[BobMcBob]

Congrats, Squigs with one g... hope you get the job!

Why Jamie? And why start where we left off when we got new roles?

Because I accidentally (read: purposefully) initiated the jokepost phase. Also, hey mafia buddies, how are you all?

@Bob: Dargorygel asked Squigs a question.

Why did you answer it?

Because it was correct. Squigs' vote was not a serious one, like all votes made in the first 20 minutes.

[BunnyGo]

#abstain.

I simply don't understand the point. But not so much I'm willing to vote against it if there's consensus.

[Kitsune]

##CALL GM - confirming the Assassin may only visit one target per night regardless of how many bullets they have?

This being said, I hadn't noticed that an Assassin win (if they are indeed in the game) doesn't prevent a town win which takes some of my concern away.

##Additional GM Note

Ah, I missed this the first time around. When the assassin completes their objective and exits the game, they are still considered "alive". They are also unable to be eliminated. Please refer to the roles doc for various win conditions.

Okay so for clarity town (thank you GM):

If the Assassin hits their targets and leaves:

Town can no longer win.
Mafia can win.
Arsonist cannot win (but doesn't exist if the Assassin is in play).
All other 3P roles may be able to win (Infector is the chanciest).

Any questions?

[BobMcBob]

Okay, now that I've caught up, ##Unvote
The discussion is still focussed on massclaims. And I still haven't made up my mind. I'm feeling like damo/bozo are possible good lynch candidates here, but I'm not sure of their meta and don't have 12 hours of spare time on my hands to go reading their most recent games. But bozo et al's points around them seem alright.

P.S. I'm still allowed to play the noob card right?

[dargorygel]

#abstain.

I simply don't understand the point. But not so much I'm willing to vote against it if there's consensus.

So you'd go along with it if most agree? What percentage agreement would move you to hop along?

[BobMcBob]

Wait, shouldn't this thread be hidden?

[damo666]

Oppose

[BobMcBob]

#abstain
Unless it actually starts happening, I won't join. I may change my mind later, but for now I'm going to stay out of it.

[KalelChase]

Please everyone vote on requesting the vote leader at 24 hours to claim their role.

in favor: bozo, Kitsune
opposed:

It is a variant on my idea, I'd back this.

[BunnyGo]

#abstain.

I simply don't understand the point. But not so much I'm willing to vote against it if there's consensus.

So you'd go along with it if most agree? What percentage agreement would move you to hop along?

Not so much a "percentage" but if it happens, and the people voting for it convince me it's a good idea I'll join. So far, I'm not impressed by the arguments; but I'm not able to rebut them.

[Jamiet99uk]

In favour: Bozo, Kitsune, KalelChase
Opposed: jamiet99uk, dargorygel, Damo666
Abstentions: Bunnygo, BobMcBob

[bo_sox48]

To your point, though, I have no interest in a massclaim discussion. You can find a quote from past games if you want to know why it's a stupid idea that I will never participate in on day 1.

How about agreeing that the vote leader at 24 hours must claim their role?

Why 24 hours? Why not 12 hours? Why not 6 hours? Likewise, why not give the various daytime killing roles we may have a chance to do their jobs?

I may support this if it your idea were to do something meaningful for a good reason, but instead you'd like to do something meaningful at the pass of an arbitrary number.

The more I think on it, there is an argument that using our daytime roles following a few claims is a good idea, but at that point we would need more people to have claimed than just the vote leader.

[xorxes]

##CALL GM - confirming the Assassin may only visit one target per night regardless of how many bullets they have?

This being said, I hadn't noticed that an Assassin win (if they are indeed in the game) doesn't prevent a town win which takes some of my concern away.

##Additional GM Note

Ah, I missed this the first time around. When the assassin completes their objective and exits the game, they are still considered "alive". They are also unable to be eliminated. Please refer to the roles doc for various win conditions.

Okay so for clarity town (thank you GM):

If the Assassin hits their targets and leaves:

Town can no longer win.
Mafia can win.
Arsonist cannot win (but doesn't exist if the Assassin is in play).
All other 3P roles may be able to win (Infector is the chanciest).

Any questions?

Ah! In that case, massclaim is indeed a bad idea. No massclaim unless we can be sure that the Assasin is not in play.

[bo_sox48]

Why 24 hours? Why not 12 hours? Why not 6 hours? Likewise, why not give the various daytime killing roles we may have a chance to do their jobs?

I may support this if it your idea were to do something meaningful for a good reason, but instead you'd like to do something meaningful at the pass of an arbitrary number.

Hi Bo_sox,

I think M49 we had enough of an experience with daytime killing roles picking their targets without more to go on than meta perception. I'm absolutely not against trying to find a better way to glean information about who is what and who doesn't want what revealed and I have been saying constantly that we shouldn't try a mass claim, but it feels like you're poking holes rather than contributing here. To paraphrase:

"But he doesn't have a plan, he just doesn't like [bozo]'s!"

Not saying it's a perfect plan and of course we're using arbitrary numbers here. Suggest a better one and we can do yours instead?

Manipulating the daytime roles into picking from a pool of certain players allows the mafia to interfere in what would otherwise be a 100% town-driven process since our daytime town PRs are, obviously, town. Of course they're going to miss more often than they hit. All that takes is simple division to recognize that under 50% of the players in this game are mafia, and thus more than 50% of the players targetable are town. I don't know if you're good at this game or not, but either way I don't think you're being genuine if you think that your experience in M49 is the end-all-be-all for the usage of town PRs with daytime actions.

I don't have a plan because as I so eloquently stated before, I don't care much for a discussion on the mechanics. Likewise, while I freely admit that narrowing the pool for the daytime PRs may make the likelihood of a counterclaim or of them simply hitting mafia greater, I also don't think that we should manipulate them, and thus, I'm not proposing a plan. Sorry if that upsets you.

Bozo's plan is bad, albeit perhaps not invalid. But it's still bad.

[bo_sox48]

As above, the only way that bozo's plan has any shot at working is if a) we pick the point at which these claims happen for a reason, not because the clock has changed, and b) more than one person claims (and I would argue at least five, as that seems to me a fair number where the validity of said claims may come into question for one or two claimants, thus narrowing our pool for today and for later).